Towing with a 200-series Toyota Land Cruiser (15 Viewers)

[skrypj]

As someone that's lived his life 1/4 mile at a time, supercharging and turbocharging my sporty cars for fun.

For the 5.7L, IMO it doesn't really lack power for even the heaviest rated tows. It's more about preserving drivability with mods. By that I mean having the right gearing to access the powerband. As a gasser, that powerband is at revs higher than some are comfortable revving to, but with the right driving style, it's got solid skookum and gearing stock. As we modify, particular with larger tires, that can affect drivability.

Forced induction and midrange HP can help to your point, but the concern is that it's creating more combustion pressure, heat, and stress. Both to the engine and transmission. Towing is the long game and reliability and efficiency is the name of the game.

The 8 speed with the 3.31's just can't access the higher revs sometimes. Thats the problem. That power well we were talking about had me at ~3500 rpm at 55 mph. It would not drop another gear.

As you said, you can force by creating more torque, or you change the gears to give you more revs in the same gear or possibly be able to access a lower gear you couldnt before.

My one justification for a blower maybe not being a big deal is that I am at 6500'. If the blower only makes 6 psi(1.41 pressure ratio)at sea level, then that would only put me a 1.8 psi of boost here. I'd barely be making more power than a stock LX at sea level. I also wonder if making a tune that sets the shift points to shift so that you dont get access to the full power of the blower while towing.

 

[skrypj]

Good points. What I can offer is that it should be looked at as an overall system. Considering torque/powerband of the 5.7L, aero load of the vehicle, what it is designed and tuned for, etc.

IMO, the 200-series is the benchmark for which many of these lesser vehicles aspire to be. It's not a baja runner, rock crawler, tow machine, yet it can do all of these things competently with some tailoring. Take that tailoring too far in any one direction, and that ruins the fine balance and template of what it was meant to be.

I don't know what final tire size you're shooting for. Just my opinion since that's what your post asked for - on the 8-speed for 35s or less, 3.9s is the ticket. It'll still have plenty of gearing advantage over stock for the things you're looking to improve. Without going too far that it trades any goodness.

View attachment 3667541

Would your tune change if 37’s were a possibility since that would effectively put me back to stock gearing on 3.91’s, which seems to have its deficiencies?

I wish Toyota made a 3.73 gear set because that would make the decision a bit easier. My hang up is that the 3.91’s and 4.10’s are so close, a lot of the things you were talking about I think would be issues with either gear set.

And to be honest, the truck does great with the factory gear set when I’m not towing. The tire and wheel set up I’m running is no wider than the stock tires and is 6 pounds lighter per corner so other than the seven or 8% effective gearing it really hasn’t had much of an impact, I’m still averaging 18 mpg on 35’s

 

[Artie]

The 8 speed with the 3.31's just can't access the higher revs sometimes. Thats the problem. That power well we were talking about had me at ~3500 rpm at 55 mph. It would not drop another gear.

As you said, you can force by creating more torque, or you change the gears to give you more revs in the same gear or possibly be able to access a lower gear you couldnt before.

My one justification for a blower maybe not being a big deal is that I am at 6500'. If the blower only makes 6 psi(1.41 pressure ratio)at sea level, then that would only put me a 1.8 psi of boost here. I'd barely be making more power than a stock LX at sea level. I also wonder if making a tune that sets the shift points to shift so that you dont get access to the full power of the blower while towing.

I audibly shout “I am the captain now” and select the gear of my choosing, see the incline ahead and I’m already gathering the inertia. It will run through the RPM’s through 4500-5k before the up shift. Anything below 3250 on a climb and I can’t really maintain, it’s the dreaded power hole in 2nd 3rd or 4th. A fellow mudder advised me to let it sing and do its thing, it’s worked for me.

Only on occasion am I really struggling and that’s either for a long slog of climbing at elevation or someone in front of me has robbed my of my momentum.

Gears or forced induction are attractive to me to keep converter temps down but the cost just ends up not converting me to either. The gears would also have the benefit of more OEM accuracy in 4LO which I find attractive.

If your having shifting issues try it going manual, , declaring yourself captain is optional… or try the pedal commander, it’s been great for me once I found the setting I like.

 

[TeCKis300]

The 8 speed with the 3.31's just can't access the higher revs sometimes. Thats the problem. That power well we were talking about had me at ~3500 rpm at 55 mph. It would not drop another gear.

As you said, you can force by creating more torque, or you change the gears to give you more revs in the same gear or possibly be able to access a lower gear you couldnt before.

My one justification for a blower maybe not being a big deal is that I am at 6500'. If the blower only makes 6 psi(1.41 pressure ratio)at sea level, then that would only put me a 1.8 psi of boost here. I'd barely be making more power than a stock LX at sea level. I also wonder if making a tune that sets the shift points to shift so that you dont get access to the full power of the blower while towing.

I know that hole well. It's an issue created when modifying with larger tires and lost gearing. But it was really only an issue with 33s on my 6-speed when combined with heavy loads, elevation, and grade.

Now that I'm regeared and practically back to stock gearing with the 35s, it's solid. Above ~8k ft, there a lot of HP lost to your point, and it's useful to anticipate gear selection to maximize access to what power is available. I find stock gearing does give me good access to the upper revs without getting stuck in the hole. The 8-speed should even be better in the that regard, with lower gearing and tighter spacing.

Would your tune change if 37’s were a possibility since that would effectively put me back to stock gearing on 3.91’s, which seems to have its deficiencies?

I wish Toyota made a 3.73 gear set because that would make the decision a bit easier. My hang up is that the 3.91’s and 4.10’s are so close, a lot of the things you were talking about I think would be issues with either gear set.

And to be honest, the truck does great with the factory gear set when I’m not towing. The tire and wheel set up I’m running is no wider than the stock tires and is 6 pounds lighter per corner so other than the seven or 8% effective gearing it really hasn’t had much of an impact, I’m still averaging 18 mpg on 35’s

Yes, I think 37s is the breakpoint where 4.1s might be useful. Still not completely necessary if only tires and not towing. Though at that mod level, many are also reaching for lots of heavy overlanding gear and armor, including things that affect aero loads and the tallest cruise gear.

 

[Artie]

For a while now I’ve been wheel shopping, I’ve found that the load rating for our 5 lug wheels has really limited choices for those of us who tow with built Cruisers.

Based on my Cat scale visits my absolute heaviest on the rear axle has been 5360. I believe our stock wheels max load is 2750 per wheel which leaves me in a safe zone of 5500. However, I want to ditch my spacers and get proper offset wheels and here is where things get really limited, add in I want to stick with Bronze it’s really slim pickings.

Those of you running aftermarket wheels, what are you running and do you know the load limits? I’ve found a couple 18” Methods get me there but that’s about it. Since Alphaequipt has discontinued some stuff there are some good buys on them but I can’t find their load limits.

Any suggestions are welcome.

 

[Boston Mangler]

For a while now I’ve been wheel shopping, I’ve found that the load rating for our 5 lug wheels has really limited choices for those of us who tow with built Cruisers.

Based on my Cat scale visits my absolute heaviest on the rear axle has been 5360. I believe our stock wheels max load is 2750 per wheel which leaves me in a safe zone of 5500. However, I want to ditch my spacers and get proper offset wheels and here is where things get really limited, add in I want to stick with Bronze it’s really slim pickings.

Those of you running aftermarket wheels, what are you running and do you know the load limits? I’ve found a couple 18” Methods get me there but that’s about it. Since Alphaequipt has discontinued some stuff there are some good buys on them but I can’t find their load limits.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Be very careful with Methods and do your due diligence.

Google “cracked method wheels” and you’ll see why.

I personally know 3 people that have had Methods crack and 2 of those were HD variants.

I take their ratings with a grain of salt

And yes, I know they are popular here

 

[Artie]

Be very careful with Methods and do your due diligence.

Google “cracked method wheels” and you’ll see why.

I personally know 3 people that have had Methods crack and 2 of those were HD variants.

I take their ratings with a grain of salt

And yes, I know they are popular here

Good to know, I haven’t been keeping score on this type of stuff so that’s why I’m asking.

Tire rack seems to have a good selection and sorting methods. I’m just a complete noob on this particular subject, I’ve never bought a aftermarket set for anything before.

 

[linuxgod]

I don’t believe stock wheels are officially rated. It’s safe to assume they are capable of handling weight at rated pressure which is IIRC 2512# or something like that.

My icons were rated for 2500# originally. Icon has raised some ratings to 2750# on some wheels. Not sure if any are bronze.

 

[Artie]

I don’t believe stock wheels are officially rated. It’s safe to assume they are capable of handling weight at rated pressure which is IIRC 2512# or something like that.

My icons were rated for 2500# originally. Icon has raised some ratings to 2750# on some wheels. Not sure if any are bronze.

I wonder what changed, if anything, to cause them to raise the limit to 2750.

2500 seems like a fairly standard load limit. It’s close but is it close enough… I’d rather meet my max weight if possible.

The 17 inch Icon Rebound states 3100 and according to Icon’s site they fit. My fear is this is the path to 35’s, body mount chop and so on. I’d be fine with my current diameter of 34” for a while.

 

[linuxgod]

I wonder what changed, if anything, to cause them to raise the limit to 2750.

2500 seems like a fairly standard load limit. It’s close but is it close enough… I’d rather meet my max weight if possible.

The 17 inch Icon Rebound states 3100 and according to Icon’s site they fit. My fear is this is the path to 35’s, body mount chop and so on. I’d be fine with my current diameter of 34” for a while.

I suspect there were requests for heavier duty ratings and they felt they’d qualify and they decided to have them re-rated to make a big sale. Just a hunch.

 

[Jason Andrews]

For a while now I’ve been wheel shopping, I’ve found that the load rating for our 5 lug wheels has really limited choices for those of us who tow with built Cruisers.

Based on my Cat scale visits my absolute heaviest on the rear axle has been 5360. I believe our stock wheels max load is 2750 per wheel which leaves me in a safe zone of 5500. However, I want to ditch my spacers and get proper offset wheels and here is where things get really limited, add in I want to stick with Bronze it’s really slim pickings.

Those of you running aftermarket wheels, what are you running and do you know the load limits? I’ve found a couple 18” Methods get me there but that’s about it. Since Alphaequipt has discontinued some stuff there are some good buys on them but I can’t find their load limits.

Any suggestions are welcome.

My 17x7.5" Methods are rated 3640#. They don't make them in bronze tho.

Last week I towed my 6,000# 80 series on a ~2,200# trailer from 5,000ft up to 10,000ft. Stock 3.3 gears, 37's, WD hitch, Redarc BC. I'm thinking I'd need to upgrade the tranny cooler if I end up towing more consistently. Air temps were ~85* down in Denver and with the initial 5k-8k foot accent the air temp drops ~20*. At 8k feet the trans pan temp got up to 217* while engine stayed below 200* with the hottest the engine oil got was 216*.

Keeping lockup was easier in 5th and 6th, but the road is too curvy to maintain that speed most of the time. It was difficult to get the convertor to lockup once I dropped any lower than 5th. It did lock in 3rd and 4th from 5k-8k, but by the time it did the trans temp was already over 210*. Going from 8k-10k it never would lock in 3rd or 4th. Still hit 217* on the trans and the ambient temp was 55* at that moment.

Only took 3 minutes once I started descending from 10,000ft to 9,500ft for trans to be back at 190* because it was only 50* ambient temp at that point.

I deleted my torque convertor fluid temp PID since it was registering lower than the pan temp and I knew that couldn't be right. Need to get it working and can more closely monitor it and find the best gear for the slope/load. Anyone successfully upgraded their tranny cooler to the +22% Tundra one or a larger aftermarket? I'm curious how the thermostat works in that system and if it could be kept stock other than bigger cooler and more fluid...

 

[Artie]

My 17x7.5" Methods are rated 3640#. They don't make them in bronze tho.

Last week I towed my 6,000# 80 series on a ~2,200# trailer from 5,000ft up to 10,000ft. Stock 3.3 gears, 37's, WD hitch, Redarc BC. I'm thinking I'd need to upgrade the tranny cooler if I end up towing more consistently. Air temps were ~85* down in Denver and with the initial 5k-8k foot accent the air temp drops ~20*. At 8k feet the trans pan temp got up to 217* while engine stayed below 200* with the hottest the engine oil got was 216*.

Keeping lockup was easier in 5th and 6th, but the road is too curvy to maintain that speed most of the time. It was difficult to get the convertor to lockup once I dropped any lower than 5th. It did lock in 3rd and 4th from 5k-8k, but by the time it did the trans temp was already over 210*. Going from 8k-10k it never would lock in 3rd or 4th. Still hit 217* on the trans and the ambient temp was 55* at that moment.

Only took 3 minutes once I started descending from 10,000ft to 9,500ft for trans to be back at 190* because it was only 50* ambient temp at that point.

I deleted my torque convertor fluid temp PID since it was registering lower than the pan temp and I knew that couldn't be right. Need to get it working and can more closely monitor it and find the best gear for the slope/load. Anyone successfully upgraded their tranny cooler to the +22% Tundra one or a larger aftermarket? I'm curious how the thermostat works in that system and if it could be kept stock other than bigger cooler and more fluid...

Thanks for the wheel data, I did see some methods with some higher weight ratings, I have a few contenders on my short list now.

The converter PID has some bizarre readings upon startup on mine as well. Once everything is up to operating temp the readings make more sense. I’ve found that ambient temperature has had little impact on converter temps, or any real effects on oil, coolant, or trans. It may vary a few degrees but, for the most part, they seem to all operate in the normal operating ranges. I do not see any cold weather driving so my experience is limited to what I encounter in the south east and summer trips out west.

 

[skrypj]

My 17x7.5" Methods are rated 3640#. They don't make them in bronze tho.

Last week I towed my 6,000# 80 series on a ~2,200# trailer from 5,000ft up to 10,000ft. Stock 3.3 gears, 37's, WD hitch, Redarc BC. I'm thinking I'd need to upgrade the tranny cooler if I end up towing more consistently. Air temps were ~85* down in Denver and with the initial 5k-8k foot accent the air temp drops ~20*. At 8k feet the trans pan temp got up to 217* while engine stayed below 200* with the hottest the engine oil got was 216*.

Keeping lockup was easier in 5th and 6th, but the road is too curvy to maintain that speed most of the time. It was difficult to get the convertor to lockup once I dropped any lower than 5th. It did lock in 3rd and 4th from 5k-8k, but by the time it did the trans temp was already over 210*. Going from 8k-10k it never would lock in 3rd or 4th. Still hit 217* on the trans and the ambient temp was 55* at that moment.

Only took 3 minutes once I started descending from 10,000ft to 9,500ft for trans to be back at 190* because it was only 50* ambient temp at that point.

I deleted my torque convertor fluid temp PID since it was registering lower than the pan temp and I knew that couldn't be right. Need to get it working and can more closely monitor it and find the best gear for the slope/load. Anyone successfully upgraded their tranny cooler to the +22% Tundra one or a larger aftermarket? I'm curious how the thermostat works in that system and if it could be kept stock other than bigger cooler and more fluid...

The Torque converter PID on the 2016+ 8 speed trucks doesnt work or doesnt exist best I can tell. I only see a Trans Fluid Temp #3 and when I first start the truck on a 80F day it reads as -40F. Then it slowly creeps up. In normal conditions it will be below the pan temp but during extreme climbs when my TC unlocks, it will go up higher than the pan temp.

 

[Artie]

The Torque converter PID on the 2016+ 8 speed trucks doesnt work or doesnt exist best I can tell. I only see a Trans Fluid Temp #3 and when I first start the truck on a 80F day it reads as -40F. Then it slowly creeps up. In normal conditions it will be below the pan temp but during extreme climbs when my TC unlocks, it will go up higher than the pan temp.

Yes, this is how it behaves. I don’t know why it’s so far off upon start up but durning normal operating temp it seems to display what I’d consider normal. Converter fluid temp will increase in temperature when unlocked while the pan temp will increase much slower. Once lock up is achieved the converter temp will drop fairly quickly.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

I've often wondered why the 7 pin connector doesn't snap/lock together to create a more secure connection as all it would take is getting caught on something to pull it out.

I met a guy that said he had a very loose 7 pin connection and he uses a zip tie to secure the 7 pin.

But, any thoughts on securing the 7 pin with something like a zip tie as general practice?

 

[987R]

I've often wondered why the 7 pin connector doesn't snap/lock together to create a more secure connection as all it would take is getting caught on something to pull it out.

I met a guy that said he had a very loose 7 pin connection and he uses a zip tie to secure the 7 pin.

But, any thoughts on securing the 7 pin with something like a zip tie as general practice?

Doesn't the hinged cover have that flat tab that is supposed to keep the 7 pin connector in place? Most do.

I think you want it to pull out instead of snap, though, if something were to pull on that connector.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

Doesn't the hinged cover have that flat tab that is supposed to keep the 7 pin connector in place? Most do.

I think you want it to pull out instead of snap, though, if something were to pull on that connector.

I can check next time I'm out to the trailer storage but all I've done is push it up there firmly.
It's quite snug for me now but like the guy I talked to, maybe over time, it will get loose.

To be clear I haven't had a problem yet; just wondering about pros & cons.

 

[skrypj]

Doesn't the hinged cover have that flat tab that is supposed to keep the 7 pin connector in place? Most do.

I think you want it to pull out instead of snap, though, if something were to pull on that connector.

Yes, yes it does. But i have had certain combinations of cables/plugs where the tab doesnt lock onto the cable correctly. There seems to be some variability among brands.

 

[GordJ]

Doesn't the hinged cover have that flat tab that is supposed to keep the 7 pin connector in place? Most do.

I think you want it to pull out instead of snap, though, if something were to pull on that connector.

Mine doesn't because I drove ahead with the trailer cable hooked up and broke the tab off. But after re-habbing the pins it his fine again.

 

[linuxgod]

There is a tab on the flap that should hold the 7-pin trailer plug in place when it drops down. You want it to pull out if you turn left and your trailer wire isn’t long enough for the sharp turn. Otherwise it’ll rip something out