Towing with a 200-series Toyota Land Cruiser (14 Viewers)

[TLC2013]

I’m coming up on my first interval for the drain and fill. My odometer is at 28k and it’s a 2021 MY, gut tells me I should be fine with the 4 quart drain and fill given the age and mileage but my obsessive side is wavering on pulling the return line and flushing completely. I guess it will depend on what the initial drain looks like but I feel like the flush is excessive at my current stage.

I vote for going with the full exchange. And then proceed forward with drain and fills. Get all the old fluid out now that everything is all broken in.
Also we are all curious what newer/low mileage fluid looks like at this <30k interval. I dont think anyone here has notated this on their 200 with anything remotely close to your mileage.
My experience is that after doing the full exchange the subsequent drain and fills look just about as good as new at 30k. Here is mine.

 

[Artie]

I vote for going with the full exchange. And then proceed forward with drain and fills. Get all the old fluid out now that everything is all broken in.
Also we are all curious what newer/low mileage fluid looks like at this <30k interval. I dont think anyone here has notated this on their 200 with anything remotely close to your mileage.
My experience is that after doing the full exchange the subsequent drain and fills look just about as good as new at 30k. Here is mine.

View attachment 3663058

So you need a Guinea pig… when duty calls I’m your huckleberry... I’ll start prepping to do the same, sans over torqued drain plug, as @NLScooby did in his flush video from 2017. Anyone else whose done this method, feel free to steer me clear from any pitfalls you’ve encountered.

 

[skrypj]

I am looking closer at regearing and trying to decide if I wanna go 3.91's or 4.10's. I know 3.91's are even a bit short for 35's to keep the stockish gearing, but honestly the difference between the two is pretty close. Going from the stock 3.31's to 3.91's is an 18% numerical increase in gearing, but then its only 24% with 4.10's.

My LX is not a daily driver. It only really gets used for towing, offroading, or if I have to go to the airport for work trips, otherwise it kinda just sits. When I tow, I tend to be moving around 70mph on main freeways and most two lane roads are 65mph, so I highlighted the speed range I spend most of my time probably 95% of my time. I see very little high speed freeway without a trailer(typically 65-70mph on I80 heading to Salt Lake City.). On top of that, my living room is at 6500' so my engine is producing 20% less power/torque than sea level as I drive out of my driveway. Because of all of these things, I am kinda leaning toward 4.10's.

For reference, this is what the gearing looks like on a completely stock LX(3.307 axles and 32" tires):

They are not great for towing TBH, trying to match them isnt actually a great idea. If you look, 3rd gear is significantly less useful here than with either the 3.91's or 4.10's. If I dropped to 3rd at 60mph I would only be turning around 4000 rpm whereas either the 3.91's or 4.10's would give me 4400-4500 rpm, or an extra 10%-12.5% hp than even a stock truck. An keep in mind, this is against 32" tires! With my 35's this is even worse.

My only worry is, will the transmission allow a downshift to 3rd at 70mph with the 4.10s and jump to 5300 rpm? Or will it lock me out of 3rd?

 

[ROM]

Stump Day

 

[TeCKis300]

I am looking closer at regearing and trying to decide if I wanna go 3.91's or 4.10's. I know 3.91's are even a bit short for 35's to keep the stockish gearing, but honestly the difference between the two is pretty close. Going from the stock 3.31's to 3.91's is an 18% numerical increase in gearing, but then its only 24% with 4.10's.

My LX is not a daily driver. It only really gets used for towing, offroading, or if I have to go to the airport for work trips, otherwise it kinda just sits. When I tow, I tend to be moving around 70mph on main freeways and most two lane roads are 65mph, so I highlighted the speed range I spend most of my time probably 95% of my time. I see very little high speed freeway without a trailer(typically 65-70mph on I80 heading to Salt Lake City.). On top of that, my living room is at 6500' so my engine is producing 20% less power/torque than sea level as I drive out of my driveway. Because of all of these things, I am kinda leaning toward 4.10's.

View attachment 3664407View attachment 3664408

For reference, this is what the gearing looks like on a completely stock LX(3.307 axles and 32" tires):

View attachment 3664424

They are not great for towing TBH, trying to match them isnt actually a great idea. If you look, 3rd gear is significantly less useful here than with either the 3.91's or 4.10's. If I dropped to 3rd at 60mph I would only be turning around 4000 rpm whereas either the 3.91's or 4.10's would give me 4400-4500 rpm, or an extra 10%-12.5% hp than even a stock truck. An keep in mind, this is against 32" tires! With my 35's this is even worse.

My only worry is, will the transmission allow a downshift to 3rd at 70mph with the 4.10s and jump to 5300 rpm? Or will it lock me out of 3rd?

If you're looking for another opinion, IMO its still ill advised to go to 4.1s on the 8-speed. Even with the justifications. It's not only about cruise. The transmission is there to support the whole spectrum of driving conditions. Too much gearing can create an annoyance every time the vehicle accelerates, and has to move through a useless cog before the engine gets purchase into its powerband.

 

[skrypj]

If you're looking for another opinion, IMO its still ill advised to go to 4.1s on the 8-speed. Even with the justifications. It's not only about cruise. The transmission is there to support the whole spectrum of driving conditions. Too much gearing can create an annoyance every time the vehicle accelerates, and has to move through a useless cog before the engine gets purchase into its powerband.

I guess, but how are oems getting away with shorter gearing on similar transmissions? Ford is running 4.10's in the Raptor with the 10 speed, and 4.46's or 4.70's in the Bronco with 10 speeds. Jeeps running 4.10's and 4.56's in the Wrangler on 33's and 35's respectively with 8 speed running similar ratios as the AE80F. Now they even offer 4.88's. Even the 392 Wrangler with 470hp is running 4.56's.

 

[Artie]

I guess, but how are oems getting away with shorter gearing on similar transmissions? Ford is running 4.10's in the Raptor with the 10 speed, and 4.46's or 4.70's in the Bronco with 10 speeds. Jeeps running 4.10's and 4.56's in the Wrangler on 33's and 35's respectively with 8 speed running similar ratios as the AE80F. Now they even offer 4.88's. Even the 392 Wrangler with 470hp is running 4.56's.

Our 4th gen Navigator with tow package had the 10 speed with 3.73 out back and it shifted ALL THE TIME. Even cruising at highway speed it would kick down with regularity over the slightest incline and all to gain a microscopic amount of MPG…CAFE has ruined pretty much everything with a steering wheel and that Navigator turned out to be a massive turd. 3 or 4 years in and it ended up suffering transmission issues, this after the other ecoboost issues I had.

However, when it was running well it was great and I sure do miss those 11 way adjustability seats…

 

[skrypj]

Our 4th gen Navigator with tow package had the 10 speed with 3.73 out back and it shifted ALL THE TIME. Even cruising at highway speed it would kick down with regularity over the slightest incline and all to gain a microscopic amount of MPG…CAFE has ruined pretty much everything with a steering wheel and that Navigator turned out to be a massive turd. 3 or 4 years in and it ended up suffering transmission issues, this after the other ecoboost issues I had.

However, when it was running well it was great and I sure do miss those 11 way adjustability seats…

Thats weird. My 6 speed 3.73 Ecoboost F150 almost never downshifted empty, even on 35" tires. I could tow in 6th sometimes.

 

[TeCKis300]

I guess, but how are oems getting away with shorter gearing on similar transmissions? Ford is running 4.10's in the Raptor with the 10 speed, and 4.46's or 4.70's in the Bronco with 10 speeds. Jeeps running 4.10's and 4.56's in the Wrangler on 33's and 35's respectively with 8 speed running similar ratios as the AE80F. Now they even offer 4.88's. Even the 392 Wrangler with 470hp is running 4.56's.

Good points. What I can offer is that it should be looked at as an overall system. Considering torque/powerband of the 5.7L, aero load of the vehicle, what it is designed and tuned for, etc.

IMO, the 200-series is the benchmark for which many of these lesser vehicles aspire to be. It's not a baja runner, rock crawler, tow machine, yet it can do all of these things competently with some tailoring. Take that tailoring too far in any one direction, and that ruins the fine balance and template of what it was meant to be.

I don't know what final tire size you're shooting for. Just my opinion since that's what your post asked for - on the 8-speed for 35s or less, 3.9s is the ticket. It'll still have plenty of gearing advantage over stock for the things you're looking to improve. Without going too far that it trades any goodness.

 

[ROM]

Can someone share the cost of regearing both front and back? Can you do it for $8K parts and labor?

 

[Artie]

Can someone share the cost of regearing both front and back? Can you do it for $8K parts and labor?

You left lockers off this request, air or electric?

 

[ROM]

You left lockers off this request, air or electric?

electric

 

[skrypj]

electric

I would hope you could do it for less than $8k.

I did Detroit Truetracs and 4.10’s in both axles of my Jeep and was into it probably $2500

 

[ROM]

Can i butt in on the towing thread and my view in a different angle how to address the overall use of our truck. Why not consider the supercharger approach? When you have that much power the stock gearing is irrelevant, you'll have more than enough power in any range. You can change tire sizes and still out run most people, even with 10K tow load. I know It's stupid but the truck can and capable. The tuning part really is not that hard, the math is straight forward what you need to change injector parameters. No need to adjust timing.

The loader driver from the recycling station when he saw the stumps load that i have, he was impress. The truck will tow the 10K load without drama, i was holding back only because my hitch and brake. The drawback is $8K of cost, doing it yourself. Ohh and add the $200 cheap air bag to level the trailer and done. I called it "the stop the bull**** mod" .

 

[Artie]

Can i butt in on the towing thread and my view in a different angle how to address the overall use of our truck. Why not consider the supercharger approach? When you have that much power the stock gearing is irrelevant, you'll have more than enough power in any range. You can change tire sizes and still out run most people, even with 10K tow load. I know It's stupid but the truck can and capable. The tuning part really is not that hard, the math is straight forward what you need to change injector parameters. No need to adjust timing.

The loader driver from the recycling station when he saw the stumps load that i have, he was impress. The truck will tow the 10K load without drama, i was holding back only because my hitch and brake. The drawback is $8K of cost, doing it yourself. Ohh and add the $200 cheap air bag to level the trailer and done. I called it "the stop the bull**** mod" .

My opinion oscillates on this from time to time. Cost wise, at $8k I don’t think it’s much different than gears once you throw in all the associated cost of both but I’m often wrong and don’t mind being corrected.

However, the cost isn’t the issue for me. Aftet all the mods on our Cruiser the big ticket items, engine and transmission, are completely untouched. We had a forced induction vehicle prior to this and had issues with it. One reason, among many, we went with the Cruiser was it’s reputation for reliability and I’m not convinced that I can add a supercharger and retain that. In your opinion, and open to anyone who cares to comment; I’m currently at 30k miles on the odometer, how would adding a supercharger affect the longterm reliability of this vehicle, realistically?

 

[ROM]

My opinion oscillates on this from time to time. Cost wise, at $8k I don’t think it’s much different than gears once you throw in all the associated cost of both but I’m often wrong and don’t mind being corrected.

However, the cost isn’t the issue for me. Aftet all the mods on our Cruiser the big ticket items, engine and transmission, are completely untouched. We had a forced induction vehicle prior to this and had issues with it. One reason, among many, we went with the Cruiser was it’s reputation for reliability and I’m not convinced that I can add a supercharger and retain that. In your opinion, and open to anyone who cares to comment; I’m currently at 30k miles on the odometer, how would adding a supercharger affect the longterm reliability of this vehicle, realistically?

FYI, I have 48K miles when I add the Harrop, i have 12K miles on top of it. The power delivery is smooth like factory, the ECT function still function like added throttle response and higher RPM range shift, perfect for towing mode. In normal mode i get 13.3 MPG city with almost 35" tire.

 

[skrypj]

My opinion oscillates on this from time to time. Cost wise, at $8k I don’t think it’s much different than gears once you throw in all the associated cost of both but I’m often wrong and don’t mind being corrected.

However, the cost isn’t the issue for me. Aftet all the mods on our Cruiser the big ticket items, engine and transmission, are completely untouched. We had a forced induction vehicle prior to this and had issues with it. One reason, among many, we went with the Cruiser was it’s reputation for reliability and I’m not convinced that I can add a supercharger and retain that. In your opinion, and open to anyone who cares to comment; I’m currently at 30k miles on the odometer, how would adding a supercharger affect the longterm reliability of this vehicle, realistically?

This. I don’t know that I want to put that much load on the engine and drivetrain. I tow in some very harsh conditions and just don’t wanna compromise the truck.

 

[Artie]

This. I don’t know that I want to put that much load on the engine and drivetrain. I tow in some very harsh conditions and just don’t wanna compromise the truck.

I’m compromising it enough with my build weight, amount of towing, and general overall use. However, wheel bearings and suspension repairs I can accept. I feel like as soon as I go forced induction on a engine designed for natural aspiration am getting into territory I’m not comfortable in and one which will allow for a much easier warranty denial should things go bad. At least this is my understanding. Reading through the broke valve spring threads and costs associated with engine failures will make one’s head spin.

I do enjoy the super charger threads and feel like those braver than I are paving the way for this modification to be something that I could consider in the future once I’m out of warranty… possibly.

 

[clrussell]

I’m compromising it enough with my build weight, amount of towing, and general overall use. However, wheel bearings and suspension repairs I can accept. I feel like as soon as I go forced induction on a engine designed for natural aspiration am getting into territory I’m not comfortable in and one which will allow for a much easier warranty denial should things go bad. At least this is my understanding. Reading through the broke valve spring threads and costs associated with engine failures will make one’s head spin.

I do enjoy the super charger threads and feel like those braver than I are paving the way for this modification to be something that I could consider in the future once I’m out of warranty… possibly.

I feel the same. I’d really love a stage 1 charger on my 200. Does it need it? Definitely not. Will the engine last another 200k with it on it? Likely not as well.

But it would be nice to have. Ha

 

[TeCKis300]

Can i butt in on the towing thread and my view in a different angle how to address the overall use of our truck. Why not consider the supercharger approach? When you have that much power the stock gearing is irrelevant, you'll have more than enough power in any range. You can change tire sizes and still out run most people, even with 10K tow load. I know It's stupid but the truck can and capable. The tuning part really is not that hard, the math is straight forward what you need to change injector parameters. No need to adjust timing.

The loader driver from the recycling station when he saw the stumps load that i have, he was impress. The truck will tow the 10K load without drama, i was holding back only because my hitch and brake. The drawback is $8K of cost, doing it yourself. Ohh and add the $200 cheap air bag to level the trailer and done. I called it "the stop the bull**** mod" .

As someone that's lived his life 1/4 mile at a time, supercharging and turbocharging my sporty cars for fun.

For the 5.7L, IMO it doesn't really lack power for even the heaviest rated tows. It's more about preserving drivability with mods. By that I mean having the right gearing to access the powerband. As a gasser, that powerband is at revs higher than some are comfortable revving to, but with the right driving style, it's got solid skookum and gearing stock. As we modify, particular with larger tires, that can affect drivability.

Forced induction and midrange HP can help to your point, but the concern is that it's creating more combustion pressure, heat, and stress. Both to the engine and transmission. Towing is the long game and reliability and efficiency is the name of the game.