Towing with a 200-series Toyota Land Cruiser (11 Viewers)

[TeCKis300]

Hey Rando,

For a 25FB, there's really no need to do anything. As you know, I tow a 27FB. Which curiously, is actually 1" longer, yes longer, than a 28RB. AHC will work fine with any of these models, without any mods

The reason I augmented mine was a couple reasons:
1) I carry significantly more people and weight in my LX, and on the tongue of my 27FB with upsized 6V batteries, 50lb Honda generator, and upgraded solar panels. Resulting in ~2000 payload between the ~900 lbs people/gear and ~1100lbs of tongue weight. AHC will actually handle this weight just fine at normal height
2) I want to be able to reliably use "high" suspension mode with this weight, so augmenting will make sure that AHC pressures stay reasonable to ensure high mode.

High mode because it's really useful as a dynamic way to relax the weight distribution bars. For hitching/unhitching, and on the fly loosen them up to enter driveways, gulleys, or transitions.

If you want to install the spacers. Firstly make sure the car is off. It won't adjust when off. You don't have to take off the shocks. But it does make it easier to droop the rear axle down to get the springs off without compressing them as much. Undo at the lower mount.

With any WD hitch, make sure to setup the trailer completely level once AHC has leveled. Keep the ball close and tight to the rear bumper. And ensure you apply a good amount of WD tension to restore front axle load. If the vehicle/steering feels loose, apply more WD tension. Inflate the rear tires a bit more for stability 4-6PSI more is a great place to start.

 

[Rando Kuruza]

Hey Rando,

For a 25FB, there's really no need to do anything. As you know, I tow a 27FB. Which curiously, is actually 1" longer, yes longer, than a 28RB. AHC will work fine with any of these models, without any mods

The reason I augmented mine was a couple reasons:
1) I carry significantly more people and weight in my LX, and on the tongue of my 27FB with upsized 6V batteries, 50lb Honda generator, and upgraded solar panels. Resulting in ~2000 payload between the ~900 lbs people/gear and ~1100lbs of tongue weight. AHC will actually handle this weight just fine at normal height
2) I want to be able to reliably use "high" suspension mode with this weight, so augmenting will make sure that AHC pressures stay reasonable to ensure high mode.

High mode because it's really useful as a dynamic way to relax the weight distribution bars. For hitching/unhitching, and on the fly loosen them up to enter driveways, gulleys, or transitions.

If you want to install the spacers. Firstly make sure the car is off. It won't adjust when off. You don't have to take off the shocks. But it does make it easier to droop the rear axle down to get the springs off without compressing them as much. Undo at the lower mount.

With any WD hitch, make sure to setup the trailer completely level once AHC has leveled. Keep the ball close and tight to the rear bumper. And ensure you apply a good amount of WD tension to restore front axle load. If the vehicle/steering feels loose, apply more WD tension. Inflate the rear tires a bit more for stability 4-6PSI more is a great place to start.

Thanks! Oddly enough the 25fb 837lbs tongue weight which is higher than the 27FB 791lbs tongue weight. I also plan to do the 6v batteries and place the honda generator on the tongue. With the passengers and tongue weight, I think my vehicle will have about 1600 lbs in the SUV so I think doing the mod will definitely help with the weight... I love the 28RB but the printed tongue weight is 903lbs. Real world users are saying loaded up they are measuring up to 1250-1350lbs with a fully loaded weight of 7600 lbs I feel like this one maybe to heavy for the LX570. I also plan on putting on a pro pride hitch which itself weighs over 200lbs... So even the 25fb I bet will tip the scales at over 1000-1100lbs. I know Dan with his Lance said even his is at about 1000lbs on the hitch. I love the 28RB but I just think it's to much trailer for the SUV... the 27fb I think will likely be much more tow able than the 28rb

 

[TeCKis300]

Personally, I'm not concerned about any of those tongue weights for the 200-series. The chassis and suspension is robust and up to task stock. With significant headroom if modded with spacers.

Many of the base tongue weights spec'd, a bit higher or lower for various models and floor plans, are by design to compensate for storage location within the floor plan. The 28RB in particular, has the largest volume of the storage within the rear bedroom behind the trailer axles. It is necessary by design to start with a higher base tongue weight, to offset loading at the tail of the trailer.

Likewise for a 25FB vs a 27FB. A 27FB being longer, and having it's storage under the front beds farther away from the trailer axles relative to a shorter 25FB, naturally loads the tongue weight more. Hence a lower delivered tongue weight. Many of the trailers, once loaded, generally result in approximately the same relative tongue weights.

The pro-pride while being heavy and adding weight, does offset itself because it effectively lengthens the tongue and gives the tow vehicle more leverage. With a properly setup WD hitch, tongue weights partially get projected back to the trailer axles and to the front axles.

You've probably read comments to not put the horse before the cart. If you're really set on the 28RB, I'd encourage you to take a harder look there. Trailers are potentially a larger and longer investments than tow vehicles. Get the floor plan you want. Even if that might mean you only feel comfortable with a different tow vehicle.

 

[Rando Kuruza]

I use to have a F-150 Platinum.... I decided I don't really like trucks so I am really having a hard time making the decision as I like to travel in my SUV's over trucks. The LX570 i just so much nicer to travel in much more comfortable lol

 

[catastrofe]

Here's an interesting comparison of air bags and weight distributing hitches:

 

[Dan Higgins]

That’s an interesting video. I viewed it a couple of years ago when I was just getting into towing. There is actually a lot of good info out there about WD hitches and tongue weight. @TeCKis300 and @linuxgod have more towing experience than I do and both of them push well beyond what I have with my Lance. But I will say that with the ProPride (and any good WD hitch) you should have no problem shifting enough weight back to the front axle and back to the trailer axles. When I have heard stories of people losing control of their trailers most often it is the lack of tongue weight that seems to contribute to the problem (if not erratic or overly aggressive driving). Of course, a very strong side-wind can be an issue for any large box on wheels so sometimes wisdom dictates that you need to either slow way down or pull over.

@Rando Kuruza, none of these factors should influence your decision between the RB and FB. They are simply not that significant. One trap I fell into with all these numbers was an obsession with trying to get everything dialed in perfectly - to the point where I the anxiety was getting to be too much. Seeing what @TeCKis300 and @linuxgod are doing was a good lesson for me that I need to stop worrying. Tongue weight in the range of 10-15% of total trailer weight. A good WD, properly installed and adjusted and smart driving and you should have no need to worry.

 

[Rando Kuruza]

Hey Dan I ended up getting the 25FB as I personally felt the 28 was just to much for my comfort level with the Lx570.

Prior to buying I went to the cat scales and weighed the SUV with the wife and I, 3 kids with 3 car seats and about 100lbs of weight in the back you can see the weight on the cat scales sheet. (The picture with no trailer weight) I went and bought the air stream which has full propane tanks, 6 volt batteries and solar. I have a propride hitch with 1400 lb bars and rock tamers The airstream dealer set up the Lx and told me it was perfect I knew the AHC was tricky to dial in as I couldn’t rely on measurements alone as the AHC keeps on adjusting. Yes I did turn off the vehicle to dial in the hitch. We jacked the the propride bars up 4” and off to the cat scales I went... keep in mind I have an empty Airstream holy crap 4860lbs on my rear axles with 4” on the propride bars that’s heavy. I kept cranking the bars and was talking to Brent at propride the whole time I was adjusting. Well I cranked it up to 9” he assured me it’s fine and I got my front axles to 100 lbs within its weight when empty. I will have to load up the airstream and go weigh again to see where I sit, but I bought it end of year and got a great deal so no camping as of yet. I am glad I did the 25FB I think the 28 Is to much for my comfort level. I did do teck’s spacer mod and even removed my third row seats to saved me 120lbs on the rear axle With this set up with a dry airstream I am at 12,940lbs I think going any heavier is just asking to much. And if over loaded in an accident I am sure it won’t look well if someone decides to sue or figure out who is at fault.

How does it tow?? Well I live in the utah mountains and I towed up a 7% pass called Parleys summit it’s a pretty grueling hill and I often see many trucks pulling trailers pulled over and over heating. I had plenty of power but no way could I keep the speed limit of 65mph! I had to drop it to 3rd gear (I have a 2018 LX570) I made it over the hill going 55mph and my transmission temp was at 237 degrees... towing on the flat freeways I was sitting at 190-195 degrees. Once I crested the hill and started going down hill the transmission temps went back to 190-205 climbing up a 5% grade I was able to keep 65mph no problem. The 25FB is HEAVY!!! But I think the LX can handle it fine but any higher you can count on blowing past GVWR and rear axle rating which is 4300lbs hell I am already over by 120lbs. I think with careful loading I can get it back in line. I have 275/60r20 D rated 119/116 BFG KO2’s I have my front at 45psi and the rear at 52psi i would love to get Gaijin’s input on tire pressure.

Anyhow I hope this might help anyone looking at airstreams. She is a 2019 25FB international signature. The reasons why I did the 25FB over the 28RB is the 25 is shorter, lighter hitch weight and lighter overall. I like that the 25 has a panoramic window in the back as I feel that’s where all the good views would be. The 28 has Panoramic windows off the front a great view of the LX570’s Ugly Ass lol. And also the bathroom feels more cramped than the 25FB. I also thought it would be easier to get into national parks with the 25FB overall length of 25’11” we have been doing construction in our house and have lived in the airstream for 7 days straight we love it!!!

 

[bloc]

I had to drop it to 3rd gear (I have a 2018 LX570) I made it over the hill going 55mph and my transmission temp was at 237 degrees... towing on the flat freeways I was sitting at 190-195 degrees. Once I crested the hill and started going down hill the transmission temps went back to 190-205 climbing up a 5% grade I was able to keep 65mph no problem.

Was temp still climbing and you crested the hill at 237, or did it get to that point then stay around there?

I seem to remember modern synthetic ATF being good for significantly higher temps than the old mineral stuff but almost 240 still sounds quite hot.

 

[Dan Higgins]

First, your trailer and LX look awesome! Having a trailer you are comfortable with is HUGE! You'll be using this for vacationing and the last thing you want to have are more reasons to be stressed out during vacation.

As for the weights, you seem to be in pretty good shape. Not that far off from what I run. When I am headed out on a trip (camping and other gear) I run 6800# and that is before the trailer. My axles are not that different from yours. I run my ProPride bars at 7", sometimes 8". That brings the height of my front axle to within a quarter inch of the height without the trailer load. In fact, my rear is also only about 1/4" inch off.

As for tongue weight, make sure you don't go below 10" of your loaded weight for the trailer. I don't know what your GVWR is but I try to load my trailer such that my tongue weight is ~12% of GVWR and I keep the trailer under GVWR. Too little tongue weight is one of the primary reasons for trailers going out of control in otherwise good conditions. In fact, we were driving a highway this morning and a truck a couple vehicles in front of us lost its utility trailer. The trailer was empty so I fully expect that he had too little tongue weight and the trailer took on a life of its own.

As for your tires, check with Gaijin. I have the E-rated KO2s (285/65/R18) and I run them at 42 normal and bump the rear up to 44 when towing.

Regarding speed, I never worry about going the speed limit unless that speed limit is 65 or less. I know others push much higher. But for me it is not worth the additional cost of gas or the increased risk should something go awry with the trailer. Going downhill I always use engine braking with a gentle tap of the brake now and then to keep the speed under control. Once it gets out of control it is extremely difficult to bring it back. (And I assume you are familiar with you to engage the trailer brakes manually.). Going uphill I, again, don't worry about the speed. If necessary I will pull over behind a semi and just relax. I have climbed over all of Colorado's interstate mountain passes and Soldier's Summit near Provo. They just don't take that long. I try to keep my RPM at ~3K or higher when climbing. @TeCKis300 and @linuxgod know these things far better than I do but I do believe that making the engine work hard at lower RPMs is the primary cause of overheating.

Oh, and per the owners manual for our 8-speeds, I always drive in S6 unless I am using engine braking where I will downshift to control speed. (I have downshifted to S1 once on a steep and curvy mountain pass where I wanted to keep the speed around 15MPH. But that lasted all of 5 minutes and we were on our way again having hardly had to use the brakes.)

Also, one more suggestion regarding the ProPride. Lining up the stinger for hitching can be a challenge with our off-center rear cameras. So I purchased a separate rear camera that I only use for hitching. Because it is magnetically mounted I can put it anywhere (for example on the hitch) and it has a wireless screen that I use in the cabin while backing up.

 

[Rando Kuruza]

Was temp still climbing and you crested the hill at 237, or did it get to that point then stay around there?

I seem to remember modern synthetic ATF being good for significantly higher temps than the old mineral stuff but almost 240 still sounds quite hot.

Once I crested the hill the temps immediately dropped... it does seem quite hot has anyone else experience these temps climbing long steep grades??? I use the OBD Fusion app like @linuxgod uses.

 

[Rando Kuruza]

First, your trailer and LX look awesome! Having a trailer you are comfortable with is HUGE! You'll be using this for vacationing and the last thing you want to have are more reasons to be stressed out during vacation.

As for the weights, you seem to be in pretty good shape. Not that far off from what I run. When I am headed out on a trip (camping and other gear) I run 6800# and that is before the trailer. My axles are not that different from yours. I run my ProPride bars at 7", sometimes 8". That brings the height of my front axle to within a quarter inch of the height without the trailer load. In fact, my rear is also only about 1/4" inch off.

As for tongue weight, make sure you don't go below 10" of your loaded weight for the trailer. I don't know what your GVWR is but I try to load my trailer such that my tongue weight is ~12% of GVWR and I keep the trailer under GVWR. Too little tongue weight is one of the primary reasons for trailers going out of control in otherwise good conditions. In fact, we were driving a highway this morning and a truck a couple vehicles in front of us lost its utility trailer. The trailer was empty so I fully expect that he had too little tongue weight and the trailer took on a life of its own.

As for your tires, check with Gaijin. I have the E-rated KO2s (285/65/R18) and I run them at 42 normal and bump the rear up to 44 when towing.

Regarding speed, I never worry about going the speed limit unless that speed limit is 65 or less. I know others push much higher. But for me it is not worth the additional cost of gas or the increased risk should something go awry with the trailer. Going downhill I always use engine braking with a gentle tap of the brake now and then to keep the speed under control. Once it gets out of control it is extremely difficult to bring it back. (And I assume you are familiar with you to engage the trailer brakes manually.). Going uphill I, again, don't worry about the speed. If necessary I will pull over behind a semi and just relax. I have climbed over all of Colorado's interstate mountain passes and Soldier's Summit near Provo. They just don't take that long. I try to keep my RPM at ~3K or higher when climbing. @TeCKis300 and @linuxgod know these things far better than I do but I do believe that making the engine work hard at lower RPMs is the primary cause of overheating.

Oh, and per the owners manual for our 8-speeds, I always drive in S6 unless I am using engine braking where I will downshift to control speed. (I have downshifted to S1 once on a steep and curvy mountain pass where I wanted to keep the speed around 15MPH. But that lasted all of 5 minutes and we were on our way again having hardly had to use the brakes.)

Also, one more suggestion regarding the ProPride. Lining up the stinger for hitching can be a challenge with our off-center rear cameras. So I purchased a separate rear camera that I only use for hitching. Because it is magnetically mounted I can put it anywhere (for example on the hitch) and it has a wireless screen that I use in the cabin while backing up.

Dan thanks for the tips I have read this whole thread over and over again before purchasing. Hitching with the lx570 and the propride is the trickiest thing.... with the auto leveling it makes it tricky to unhitch... you have to basically go in low, turn off the car jack up the trailer and the hitch 4” turn on the car and let it auto level, or basically empty out the rear shocks. If it doesn’t disconnect you have to turn off the suv jack it up another 4” turn on the suv and let it auto level and repeat until you can pull it out. Basically the rear shocks get filled up to handle the load on them depending on how much fluid is in the shock depends how many times you have to go through this process to disconnect. I have to do it twice I’m sure it’s not as tricky with a traditional ball and hitch set up. But with the propride and the lx570 it’s tricky. A good trick is to grease the stinger. I do set the suv to s6 and tow in sport+ It does great in that setting

 

[coleAK]

Dan thanks for the tips I have read this whole thread over and over again before purchasing. Hitching with the lx570 and the propride is the trickiest thing.... with the auto leveling it makes it tricky to unhitch... you have to basically go in low, turn off the car jack up the trailer and the hitch 4” turn on the car and let it auto level, or basically empty out the rear shocks. If it doesn’t disconnect you have to turn off the suv jack it up another 4” turn on the suv and let it auto level and repeat until you can pull it out. Basically the rear shocks get filled up to handle the load on them depending on how much fluid is in the shock depends how many times you have to go through this process to disconnect. I have to do it twice I’m sure it’s not as tricky with a traditional ball and hitch set up. But with the propride and the lx570 it’s tricky. A good trick is to grease the stinger. I do set the suv to s6 and tow in sport+ It does great in that setting

I almost always lower the truck out from under the trailer. Get the tongue jack set then go to LOW with the AHC.

 

[bloc]

Once I crested the hill the temps immediately dropped... it does seem quite hot has anyone else experience these temps climbing long steep grades??? I use the OBD Fusion app like @linuxgod uses.

Yes but was it still on it’s way to an even higher temp and cresting stopped the rise as well as let it lower, or was it holding at 237F (not increasing further) and only cooled down when you created?

I’m just trying to figure out if temps would have climbed even more if the hill were longer.

I almost always lower the truck out from under the trailer. Get the tongue jack set then go to LOW with the AHC.

IIRC a propride doesn’t come apart at the ball because it is basically made rigid at that point. It has a 2” square extension that goes directly into the LX hitch receiver. Which means you not only have to put the tongue weight on the jack, you have to have the hitch and load bar misalignment sorted out or it won’t pull out of the receiver. It never occurred to me that the AHS could make this process difficult but it makes sense now that I think through it.

 

[coleAK]

Yes but was it still on it’s way to an even higher temp and cresting stopped the rise as well as let it lower, or was it holding at 237F (not increasing further) and only cooled down when you created?

I’m just trying to figure out if temps would have climbed even more if the hill were longer.



IIRC a propride doesn’t come apart at the ball because it is basically made rigid at that point. It has a 2” square extension that goes directly into the LX hitch receiver. Which means you not only have to put the tongue weight on the jack, you have to have the hitch and load bar misalignment sorted out or it won’t pull out of the receiver. It never occurred to me that the AHS could make this process difficult but it makes sense now that I think through it.

I didn’t know that about that set up. I use the Husky round bar WD hitch.

 

[Dan Higgins]

@bloc is spot on. I have had 2 ProPride type hitches and the first one was on a Land Rover LR4 with adjustable height. The "massive" hitch mechanism is permanently secured to the coupler on the trailer's A-frame. It serves as the "female" part of the hitch connection. A "stinger" bar is secured to the received on the tow vehicle. The biggest challenge with these setups (ProPride or the original Hensley) is alighing the hitch bar (stinger) with the opening on the hitch. What was nice about the adjustable height on the LR4 was that I could manually alter the height with the key fob while standing outside the vehicle. So if I needed to fine tune the height adjustment I could do so without needing to adjust the height of the jack. 6/half dozen but it was nice to have the option. The first thing we needed to learn, though, was how to disable the auto-leveling feature of the LR4's adjustable suspension.

 

[bloc]

I didn’t know that about that set up. I use the Husky round bar WD hitch.

It’s a pretty interesting concept. I wouldn’t know about them if not for my neighbor having one on his trailer and it so clearly looking different, I got to asking. He said it takes all the slack out of the ball setup, then uses linkages to simulate the pivot point (normally at the ball) being in front of the tow vehicle rear axle. This makes it act like a fifth wheel on the road and effectively eliminates sway.

Expensive, but he rolled a suburban and trailer years ago from wind induced sway and vowed never to let that happen again. Said this setup is amazing.

 

[GordJ]

I just watched a video on hooking up the propride. What an involved process. Kind of like pulling the pin on your ball mount and hooking/unhooking by sliding the ball mount in and out of your receiver. Looks like a handful to do by yourself or on uneven ground.

 

[coleAK]

It’s a pretty interesting concept. I wouldn’t know about them if not for my neighbor having one on his trailer and it so clearly looking different, I got to asking. He said it takes all the slack out of the ball setup, then uses linkages to simulate the pivot point (normally at the ball) being in front of the tow vehicle rear axle. This makes it act like a fifth wheel on the road and effectively eliminates sway.

Expensive, but he rolled a suburban and trailer years ago from wind induced sway and vowed never to let that happen again. Said this setup is amazing.

Can you disconnect the WD function? Many of the places I go I have to disconnect the sway bars for articulation between my camper and LX. I’m not off roading with my 25’ trailer but some of the dirt roads up in northern AK have some significant dips and articulation for my camper

 

[bloc]

Can you disconnect the WD function? Many of the places I go I have to disconnect the sway bars for articulation between my camper and LX. I’m not off roading with my 25’ trailer but some of the dirt roads up in northern AK have some significant dips and articulation for my camper

That would be a better question for someone that has used one. I’ve just checked out my neighbor’s setup and read about them online.

 

[GordJ]

Can you disconnect the WD function? Many of the places I go I have to disconnect the sway bars for articulation between my camper and LX. I’m not off roading with my 25’ trailer but some of the dirt roads up in northern AK have some significant dips and articulation for my camper

I checked out a couple of Youtube videos and the weight distribution bars seem to be adjustable but not removable. I think I would be quite a ways down the road by the time the Propride or Hensley was hooked up. From what I've seen they're not for me. Impact wrenches and Johnson bars and grease or wax on the stinger is just too complicated for me.
And Rando, couldn't you just crack a door to stop the AHC from kicking in? One of the back doors would do it.