Tool Problems - coincidence or did I botch my garage electrical wiring?

[Ruggedly]

Rugged, too late now probably, but it might have been a good idea to spring for a clampmeter that also does DC current. Plenty of use for those on the truck. Some decent ones for $50 and up I think.

Thank you so so much for this recommendation! Since the order was from Amazon, I was able to cancel it before it shipped. I just found this guy for just a few dollars more because there was a built-in 20% off coupon.

Meterk Digital Clamp Meter Multimeter 4000 Counts Auto-ranging Multimeter with AC/DC Voltage&Current, Resistance, Capacitance, Frequency, Diode, Hz Test, Non-contact Voltage Detect https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0721MKXBC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_pBCECbRWRZZ5N

 

[e9999]

Looks reasonable. You should be able to measure around 15A well enough with that. Much smaller currents, though, you may want to consider the 10x line splitter I mentioned above. And also for ease of use without having to open things up. (Those are intended for AC, though, but you can make something similar in concept for DC yourself easily enough. )

 

[Ruggedly]

Okay, so here's the progress update. Both kids were sick and moody this weekend, so I had only a few minutes out there.

• Voltage test at the top row outlet with the table saw (using probes in the vacant plug)
  • 121.3V with saw off
  • 119.0V with saw on
• Voltage test at the bottom row outlet with the sander (using probes in the vacant plug)
  • 121.1V with sander off
  • 120.3V with sander on
  • 110.2V if I apply too much resistance to the sander and stall it
• I've confirmed there's lube on the aluminum lugs in the subpanel. I didn't have a chance to check the main panel.
• I've confirmed the voltage between the two hots in the sub panel are 242.8V.
• Here's a picture of my sub panel. Everything seems to be in order, but I'm no expert. Does everything look right?
  

That's all I've done thus far. Considering there don't seem to be any problematic voltage drops occurring, my thoughts return to the possibility of having reversed the wiring on one of the outlets (white to gold, black to silver). Is that what you guys would check next? Any new thoughts?

Thanks again!

David

 

[KLF]

I'm not familiar with Eaton panels, but everything looks OK to me. I think I see the neutral bonding strap left disconnected (the little bar thing hanging down with the green screw to the left of the neutral bar), which is how it should be. I'm not clear what the horizontal strap that runs across is for, though.

The receptacle tester should tell you if the receptacle is reverse wired. But I guess it's worth popping things apart and checking.

 

[Ruggedly]

I'm not familiar with Eaton panels, but everything looks OK to me. I think I see the neutral bonding strap left disconnected (the little bar thing hanging down with the green screw to the left of the neutral bar), which is how it should be. I'm not clear what the horizontal strap that runs across is for, though.

The receptacle tester should tell you if the receptacle is reverse wired. But I guess it's worth popping things apart and checking.

Thanks! And good call on the receptacle tester being able to tell me as much. That will save me a lot of time versus pulling all the face plates. Also, are you referencing that horizontal strap with the black insulation? I THINK that bonds the neutral bar on the right to the one on the left (making them both neutral bars?) because I'm already out of capacity on the right side. Would that make sense?

Thanks again for all your help. You guys are freaking awesome.

 

[Coolerman]

FYI having reversed hot and neutral should not affect the saws operation at all, BUT if you do find an outlet that is reversed, it is a dangerous situation that must be fixed due to a potential shock hazard.

I see nothing obviously wrong in that breaker box, but I am NOT a certified electrician!

Your voltage levels are well within the 5% rule. ( Total voltage drop for feeder and branch runs combined should not exceed 5% of total available voltage)
That leaves the saw itself (could be a bad start/run capacitor or a stuck centrifugal switch if the saw motor has those).

Your next step is to measure the current during startup and while the saw is running with no load, then with a "normal for you load" say cutting through a 2 x 4. That will tell a lot about how the saw is doing.

If that all checks out then it's back to looking at high loads in the house causing low voltage in the shop.

 

[Coolerman]

I'm not clear what the horizontal strap that runs across is for, though.

A lot of new boxes have that feature. It allows splitting the neutral wires to each side of the panel. The bonding jumper just connects those two neutral buss bars.

 

[Ruggedly]

FYI having reversed hot and neutral should not affect the saws operation at all, BUT if you do find an outlet that is reversed, it is a dangerous situation that must be fixed due to a potential shock hazard.

I see nothing obviously wrong in that breaker box, but I am NOT a certified electrician!

Your voltage levels are well within the 5% rule. ( Total voltage drop for feeder and branch runs combined should not exceed 5% of total available voltage)
That leaves the saw itself (could be a bad start/run capacitor or a stuck centrifugal switch if the saw motor has those).

Your next step is to measure the current during startup and while the saw is running with no load, then with a "normal for you load" say cutting through a 2 x 4. That will tell a lot about how the saw is doing.

If that all checks out then it's back to looking at high loads in the house causing low voltage in the shop.

Thanks for the confirmation. I'll do the load test on the saw next!

 

[Ruggedly]

A lot of new boxes have that feature. It allows splitting the neutral wires to each side of the panel. The bonding jumper just connects those two neutral buss bars.

Thanks for the confirmation on that. It's especially helpful as one of the neutrals is a little tighter than I'd like it to be. I'll move it over to the left side. I didn't want to do it before I knew for sure all would be good in the world if I did...

 

[KLF]

A lot of new boxes have that feature. It allows splitting the neutral wires to each side of the panel. The bonding jumper just connects those two neutral buss bars.

Ah, OK. I had assumed the bar on the far left was the grounding bus, but now when I look closer, I see it is another neutral bar, and it looks like the ground bar is hidden in shadow behind the left column of breakers. All good now.

 

[rkymtnflyfisher]

I THINK that bonds the neutral bar on the right to the one on the left (making them both neutral bars?) because I'm already out of capacity on the right side. Would that make sense?

Correct.

 

[rkymtnflyfisher]

A lot of new boxes have that feature. It allows splitting the neutral wires to each side of the panel.

Which allows the pigtail from AFCI anf GFCI breakers to be properly installed on the neutral bar.

 

[rkymtnflyfisher]

Plug your saw into a receptacle in your kitchen or bathroom, use a good extension cord, not one of those orange ones, see how it operates.


Sounds like an issue with the saw from what I've read. Like @Coolerman stated, could be a bad cap. The problems with different tools it what makes me scratch my head.

 

[rkymtnflyfisher]

Thanks for the confirmation. I'll do the load test on the saw next!

Get the nameplate info from the motor for us also

 

[rkymtnflyfisher]

Any updates?

 

[Ruggedly]

Any updates?

Sorry for being MIA. My garage is currently a total wreck (had some tools brought in, current arrangement of countertops and shelving didn't work, so reworking everything), but I think I'll be settled enough later this week to get back into assessing it. It's become clear that my inability to stay focused on one project/issue is not limited to the LC itself.

 

[Hugh Heifer]

Bump

 

[4x4veteran]

I have a table saw I bought back in 89 when I was building the house I live in now. The meter was quite a ways from the house so knowing it wasn't the best for the power tools I went ahead and ran about a hundred and fifty feet of under sized extension cord down. I would get into cutting and the saw would kick out. I got a good potion of the house done before I finally got the meter closer and ran decent power in. I still have the saw and if I get to ripping to hard or to long it will kick out. I have done a far bit of house wiring and feel pretty confident but still have a national code wiring book just in case. Along with a multimeter I have one of these to double check my work.

 

[rustybucket]

Hey David,
There seems to be a bit of discussion on whether house outlets are in series or parallel.
The attached pic is a proper wiring method.
For me this method makes more sense., than the series where all the juice runs through each outlet.

Think of it like plumbing.
The black wires and white wire continue from the beginning to the end of the run. and each outlet is pigtailed off the main pipe/wire, like a sink or toilet in plumbing.
Thus each outlet is just sipping off the main line instead of the main line running through each one.

Try rewiring a few of the first outlets like this and leave the rest of the run disconnected and see if it helps.
Bobmo

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