TLCA name change what the heck?

[Greg_B]

I devoted a substantial portion of my Trail Leader column in the May/June issue of Toyota Trails to this topic, and encouraged all TLCA members to please contact their chapter delegate or IR to voice their opinion to represent their preference. That's about as far and wide as you can get.

Jeff...done to the IR, and thanks for yours and the boards continued hard work. Many of my questions are nothing new and likely already been asked I am sure. If I get some brainwaves on the solution side I will pass them on to Charla. Was my rant to Canadian...eh?

I'm about 5-7 years away from retirement. One of my dreams has been to hit every TLCA event possible in in North America in one 365 day period...driving from each to each.

gb

 

[Rzeppa]

Jeff...done to the IR, and thanks for yours and the boards continued hard work. Many of my questions are nothing new and likely already been asked I am sure. If I get some brainwaves on the solution side I will pass them on to Charla. Was my rant to Canadian...eh?

I'm about 5-7 years away from retirement. One of my dreams has been to hit every TLCA event possible in in North America in one 365 day period...driving from each to each.

gb

Hey Greg, good to hear from you eh!

Thanks for your feedback to Charla, I know she will represent you well!

 

[woody]

I'm about 5-7 years away from retirement. One of my dreams has been to hit every TLCA event possible in in North America in one 365 day period...driving from each to each.

gb

if that was possible...unfortunately, GSMTR and Rubithon seem to overlap

 

[Trollhole]

Now your making me look bad. lol

They are 2 whole days apart. An easy drive of 2,400 miles. Heck Map Quest says I can do that in 1 day and 15 hours. That gives you 9 hours to sleep, get gas, s***, eat and maybe surf Mud. lol

 

[cruiser88]

You cannot post in the TLCA section a thread on "name change what the heck" and exspect only one side to be allowed to post. Its up to the mod of the section......no offense And there is something wrong with coming (again) to the TLCA section and stating(rather you mean it or not) you will start another club. I with the others, I think it should be voted on.

After the plethora of BOD emails going around about changing the name of the TOYOTA LANDCRUISER ASSOCIATION, I thought I would look what was being discussed on MUD. With very little being posted here I decide to start a post.

IF you support a name change.......piss off and don't post here......start your own thread.

If, however like me, you think this is a completely insane idea please post up with your comments. Take a minute or you may find yourself in a whole new club...I'll be gone.

Who knows, maybe I'll start a new club and call it the TOYOTA LANDCRUISER ASSOCIATION. Anybody want to join?

 

[cruiser88]

I have been driving cruisers for like 20 years(and my dad long before the tlca was created) almost up till last year or so, now I own a mini and I havent had any issue with folks turning their nose up to me if anything just I get a warm welcome however I have seen this snob crap with the FJ Cruiser crowd and this is why you see huge clubs nationwide. TLCA missed a bunch of memberships there. No blaming on who did it but it just happened. TLCA is stagnant ,they are looking for change and without change things will fall apart(not saying they will mind you).

There is nothing wrong of them to look for change, at least they have the mindset to have the clubs best intrest at heart.I think that is what trollhole is getting at and he is 100 % correct.

Now on a personal level I dont think NOW a name change will not help much and they need to look in another direction.

I vote leave the name alone also

Oh yeah - that would make this n objective discussion.

NOT.

Sounds more like a mutual admiration snob thread. A lot of people with 4Runners and mini's don't join just because of attitudes like this. The name says "Land Cruiser" and there are people who turn up their noses at those who don't actually own a "Land Cruiser" so a lot of people don't join, anecdotal data notwithstanding.

If you want the organization to keep its membership up in the face of declining imports of new Land Cruisers, get rid of the name and you can still go have your own little campfire off to the side of what will become that of a larger and larger majority if you want.

In the meantime write Toyota and tell them to import 70's!

 

[cruiser88]

I personally think if they left mud it may be suicide but I could be wrong and by far I am no expert

I guess you haven't read the whole thread. Stuff that is discussed by the BOD should stay there. But since the OP opened a can of worms, let's talk about how TLCA wants to create their own forum and leave MUD. That's right, during a time when they stuggle to maintain viability, they want to spend more money on software that MUD lets them use for free.

 

[woody]

... however I have seen this snob crap with the FJ Cruiser crowd and this is why you see huge clubs nationwide. TLCA missed a bunch of memberships there.

TLCA tried...ad exchanges with FJCruiserForums and TTORA...for a time, the 728x90 banner across the top of the TLCA site pages was touting their forums and redirecting people from TLCA to their sites.

wait...what? IMO, TLCA effectively pushed potential members from those groups away. Partly because 'why would you join TLCA when these other two groups better fit my rig' and partly because there is that 1% factor...the 1% of vocal individuals who hated the FJ Cruiser from the day it arrived, and couldn't seem to shut their pie hole about it, at events OR online.

TLCA picked up a few FJC/Tacoma/etc owners...but IMO, they lost more of their 'core' group in the process. And honestly, I believe the owners they DID pick up would likely have joined anyways....many of them have 'found' the history behind their rigs, and enjoy experiencing it.

Sadly, Toyota didn't help either...the FJ Cruiser Trail Teams was mis-named and mis-promoted from the outset, and those who had been around a while were less than thrilled that Toyota was pushing these vehicles at events and seemingly abandoning the roots of Toyota and using TLCA in the process. The final year, when it became Toyota Trail Teams, was too little, too late. (and YES I was vocal to Toyota about my opinions on this...didn't make me any friends there either...)

Then, Toyota abandoned TLCA and the events once the Trail Teams program was dropped. Another mistake, and more lost goodwill from the participants and membership.

--------
TLCA's future? While TLCA seems dead set against being a 'classic car club', that is where I believe it's future success will be. Focus on the history. Focus on the people that made that history, within Toyota and TLCA. Focus on the older trucks, the restorations, the builds, and the backyard projects. Focus on the Land Cruiser name. That is why the organization started in 1976.

 

[cruiser88]

I have been dead set against the bashing online from the start,it wasnt funny nor productive( I have seen people banned for it) however I am not on the inside(so to speak) of the TLCA and really didnt know what was being pushed,accepted etc but I have seen some smugness at events (like paragon) for instance. I was upset over that treatment. My question is why do these groups get created in the fisrt place? Why cannot we consolidate in the fist place to become one power in order to achieve more and I dont mean just quanity but quaility such as the more of us the more influence we have over land closers etc.Some how all these enities(clubs) get started(not clubhouse) but groups like TTORA etc. My point is something is causing folks to sway from the TLCA and start these groups and we need to stop this somehow or at least find a common ground. I think when that could be answered membership will go up and these type of threads will cease.That is why I said I dont want to place blame cause its not one person but collective even outside of the TLCA. I didnt mean to sound smug.....you know I am not.

TLCA tried...ad exchanges with FJCruiserForums and TTORA...for a time, the 728x90 banner across the top of the TLCA site pages was touting their forums and redirecting people from TLCA to their sites.
wait...what? IMO, TLCA effectively pushed potential members from those groups away. Partly because 'why would you join TLCA when these other two groups better fit my rig' and partly because there is that 1% factor...the 1% of vocal individuals who hated the FJ Cruiser from the day it arrived, and couldn't seem to shut their pie hole about it, at events OR online.

TLCA picked up a few FJC/Tacoma/etc owners...but IMO, they lost more of their 'core' group in the process. And honestly, I believe the owners they DID pick up would likely have joined anyways....many of them have 'found' the history behind their rigs, and enjoy experiencing it.

Sadly, Toyota didn't help either...the FJ Cruiser Trail Teams was mis-named and mis-promoted from the outset, and those who had been around a while were less than thrilled that Toyota was pushing these vehicles at events and seemingly abandoning the roots of Toyota and using TLCA in the process. The final year, when it became Toyota Trail Teams, was too little, too late. (and YES I was vocal to Toyota about my opinions on this...didn't make me any friends there either...)

Then, Toyota abandoned TLCA and the events once the Trail Teams program was dropped. Another mistake, and more lost goodwill from the participants and membership.

--------
TLCA's future? While TLCA seems dead set against being a 'classic car club', that is where I believe it's future success will be. Focus on the history. Focus on the people that made that history, within Toyota and TLCA. Focus on the older trucks, the restorations, the builds, and the backyard projects. Focus on the Land Cruiser name. That is why the organization started in 1976.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

--------
TLCA's future? While TLCA seems dead set against being a 'classic car club', that is where I believe it's future success will be. Focus on the history. Focus on the people that made that history, within Toyota and TLCA. Focus on the older trucks, the restorations, the builds, and the backyard projects. Focus on the Land Cruiser name. That is why the organization started in 1976.

I could not agree more. And I'm cool with the derivatives too, like Mini-trucks (remember the "son of Land Cruiser" marketing), and 4Runners and FJCruisers. I just do not see a reason for a name change, and as the years have passed, I see less and less reason for the magazine, too. So if that's the primary reason for the TLCA to exist, then the game is just about over.


I must admit I'm a little bummed by all the drama of the last year or so. A hobby club is supposed to be about fun not drama. Rumors of BOD issues, long time board members distancing themselves quickly, and a governing structure that doesn't seem to understand that times have changed. The world is not going back to 1990.


I still think the TLCA should focus on Events, Cruisers and fun. You can't duplicate those on the internet. Everything else, you basically can, like the magazine. Give people a reason to want to belong.


Maybe the future of the TLCA has already arrived and it's called IH8MUD. For an (optional) $20 per year, you have 100,000 times the content and 10,000 times the readership.

 

[Rzeppa]

TLCA tried...ad exchanges with FJCruiserForums and TTORA...for a time, the 728x90 banner across the top of the TLCA site pages was touting their forums and redirecting people from TLCA to their sites.

wait...what? IMO, TLCA effectively pushed potential members from those groups away. Partly because 'why would you join TLCA when these other two groups better fit my rig' and partly because there is that 1% factor...the 1% of vocal individuals who hated the FJ Cruiser from the day it arrived, and couldn't seem to shut their pie hole about it, at events OR online.

TLCA picked up a few FJC/Tacoma/etc owners...but IMO, they lost more of their 'core' group in the process. And honestly, I believe the owners they DID pick up would likely have joined anyways....many of them have 'found' the history behind their rigs, and enjoy experiencing it.

Sadly, Toyota didn't help either...the FJ Cruiser Trail Teams was mis-named and mis-promoted from the outset, and those who had been around a while were less than thrilled that Toyota was pushing these vehicles at events and seemingly abandoning the roots of Toyota and using TLCA in the process. The final year, when it became Toyota Trail Teams, was too little, too late. (and YES I was vocal to Toyota about my opinions on this...didn't make me any friends there either...)

Then, Toyota abandoned TLCA and the events once the Trail Teams program was dropped. Another mistake, and more lost goodwill from the participants and membership.

--------
TLCA's future? While TLCA seems dead set against being a 'classic car club', that is where I believe it's future success will be. Focus on the history. Focus on the people that made that history, within Toyota and TLCA. Focus on the older trucks, the restorations, the builds, and the backyard projects. Focus on the Land Cruiser name. That is why the organization started in 1976.

Very well said Woody, and I doubt I could have expressed it better.

The reality is, that our board members are very diverse in their viewpoints, as are our members. Some are more vocal than others and as such, those views get disproportionate attention.

...'classic car club', that is where I believe it's future success will be

(for emphasis).

There - I put it out there. That is also my personal opinion. I probably shouldn't have done that but I'm going to hit the send button anyway.

When I was elected chapter delegate to the TLCA board, my job was to represent the views of my local chapter faithfully and not my personal opinion. As such, I cast some votes that I did not agree with, but that was my job.

When I was elected TLCA Central Individual Rep, my job was to represent the views of TLCA members in my territory who are not in chapters. I cast votes on their behalf.

Now that I am President, I don't even get to vote except for a tiebreaker, but my job is still to represent membership's wishes faithfully. And to listen to our elected board, and give all of them the floor, and respond actively to their calls for action.

I do not think changing our name will do much good, and I think it might have unintended negative consequences, but failure to heed the calls for giving board member's their due process would be unfaithful as well. We have a committee, their task is to present pros and cons to the board, then we will have a vote. Hopefully, the result of the vote will represent all membership, and will not only put this question to bed for the foreseeable future but free us to turn our attention to the real tasks and work we must accomplish to continue to improve TLCA for all our members.

 

[woody]

My question is why do these groups get created in the fisrt place? Why cannot we consolidate in the fist place to become one power in order to achieve more and I dont mean just quanity but quaility such as the more of us the more influence we have over land closers etc.

my opinion....TLCA is not a land use organization. I STRONGLY believe in responsible land use, and just put $3000 from our IH8MUD membership into that....

via Blue Ribbon Coalition...there is NO 'IH8MUD Land Use' committee...there are individual liaison's to handle communication, but nothing more.

one of the BIG issues that land use has is the multitude of different groups that keep pushing their own agenda...TLCA and it's membership does not need to push yet another agenda. They need to support one organization to be that voice. I'm a firm believer that BRC is that voice with regards to Land Use in the USA. TLCA needs a liaison, not their own land use agenda.

 

[Green Lantern]

Following this thread makes me chuckle.
Everyone posting has a valid point. Woody spoke very well that TLCA is best served as a classic car club. Jeff Zepp confirmed the oft stated observation that we are an eccentric lot. Just like our trucks.

Allow me to reaffirm that only 1 out of 10 of our members are active and fiercely independent, while the majority of our membership don't care one way or the other as long as the magazine gets printed. Our chapters provide the "small pools" necessary to support our "big fish."

So, let's capitalize on our big fish. Let's focus on supporting our chapter activities and allow our chapter leaders to bring new members to TLCA. Leave the name alone, incorporate the TLCA logo into chapter specific products, and continue to use Toyota Trails to promote chapte events.

My two cents,
Happy Trails! N

 

[REKCUT]

my opinion....TLCA is not a land use organization. I STRONGLY believe in responsible land use, and just put $3000 from our IH8MUD membership into that....

via Blue Ribbon Coalition...there is NO 'IH8MUD Land Use' committee...there are individual liaison's to handle communication, but nothing more.

one of the BIG issues that land use has is the multitude of different groups that keep pushing their own agenda...TLCA and it's membership does not need to push yet another agenda. They need to support one organization to be that voice. I'm a firm believer that BRC is that voice with regards to Land Use in the USA. TLCA needs a liaison, not their own land use agenda.

Exactly the point I have been trying to get across. TLCA is the Toyota Land Cruiser Association and as Woody stated, a classic car club. We are not some world wide, do everything, 4x4, land use, save the spotted owl organization. If you are a member you joined a Land Cruiser organization. We will never make everyone happy and if we try we will most likely alienate the core members the have been loyal to the brand. TLCA is issuing member numbers in the 20,000 range. We have to stop trying to broaden our values to gain new short term members which in turn waters down the basis of our long term members.

BRC is out there for land use issues. Doesnt mean we cant contribute to them, or support them but we are not a land use organization. TTORA has found a nitch among Toyota trucks. We can support them, but we dont need to absorb or compete against them.

 

[tlcruiserman]

I am not sure how I feel about the name change, I think I would like it to stay the same, however it has gotten very clicky and I think that is what holds it back the most. I pay vendor money and have never gotten anything back from it yet in business or even someone saying they found me via TLCA. Now Mud on the other hand I get most of my business from and it cost me about the same money - Thanks Woody!

I am certainly more in the specialty area since I still get new Cruisers that are like the old ones (76 series) to bad TLCA is more interested in mainstream then the specialty stuff. TLCA you should embrace Cruisers from other countries not scorn the fact they don't sell them here, they are still cruisers and they are still being built...for now.

If you read this TLCA you might want to start to get some more customers from other countries where the Cruisers are still plentiful, so I guess what I am saying is you want to grow, go global not change the name.

Just my 2 cents


Cheers,


Michael

 

[Rzeppa]

I am not sure how I feel about the name change, I think I would like it to stay the same, however it has gotten very clicky and I think that is what holds it back the most. I pay vendor money and have never gotten anything back from it yet in business or even someone saying they found me via TLCA. Now Mud on the other hand I get most of my business from and it cost me about the same money - Thanks Woody!

I am certainly more in the specialty area since I still get new Cruisers that are like the old ones (76 series) to bad TLCA is more interested in mainstream then the specialty stuff. TLCA you should embrace Cruisers from other countries not scorn the fact they don't sell them here, they are still cruisers and they are still being built...for now.

If you read this TLCA you might want to start to get some more customers from other countries where the Cruisers are still plentiful, so I guess what I am saying is you want to grow, go global not change the name.

Just my 2 cents


Cheers,


Michael

Hi Michael,

Do you read Toyota Trails? Do you read my column?

 

[Lucy_FJ55]

Hi Michael,

Do you read Toyota Trails? Do you read my column?

I do! Keep us the great work Jeff and the rest of the BOD! Cheers.

 

[Rzeppa]

I do! Keep us the great work Jeff and the rest of the BOD! Cheers.

Thank you for the complement, but I wonder if Michael has read my columns where I really address how we have been working hard to make TLCA a friendlier organization for folks who live outside the USA. This was one of the major planks of my platform when I ran for President, and we are starting to make good progress.

Another plank is to make TLCA a friendlier and more useful organization for businesses. There is a lot more we should be doing to support our advertising businesses and our member businesses, and we are starting to make some headway there as well.

 

[NorCalBorn]

Sadly, Toyota didn't help either...the FJ Cruiser Trail Teams was mis-named and mis-promoted from the outset, and those who had been around a while were less than thrilled that Toyota was pushing these vehicles at events and seemingly abandoning the roots of Toyota and using TLCA in the process. The final year, when it became Toyota Trail Teams, was too little, too late. (and YES I was vocal to Toyota about my opinions on this...didn't make me any friends there either...)

Then, Toyota abandoned TLCA and the events once the Trail Teams program was dropped. Another mistake, and more lost goodwill from the participants and membership.

Heck, as long as we're openly posting what we feel and say..

A-Men! Thanks Brian, it's nice to finally hear that from someone other than us guys who were in the green shirts. I couldn't even bring my rig, let alone anything newer like a built up Tacoma or 4th-Gen Runner. It's a shame too many of us were left stranded with nothing to look forward to going into when it all shut down. *FWIW in my case, in all honesty, that can, like Brian stated in his case, be partially or directly correlated to my opening my mouth and giving my honest opinion on what I was being told by the user groups and vehicle owners. Most of which, even up until recently has been that there is no "Kaizen", it is now, in the words of one person..

我々は停止していない、我々は前進

Maybe that's the bigger lesson here, staying true to your beginnings while embracing the times and the future. I will say TLCA does do that, and why as a 4Runner owner I am proud to be a member of it. Heck, I'm proud to call alot of people here "Friend". I don't care if they have a LC or not, as long as it's a Toyota 4wd and not a Tercel, cool, come on out and if I have time we'll go out to wheel together and have a lot of fun!

From the guy in the khaki's on the right..

*and yes, that would be Ron Q. in the center and a couple other people we all recognize.

 

[packman73]

Change the name or don't change the name. It doesn't matter. What does matter is supporting the clubs that put on the events that produce revenue for the TLCA and produce content for Toyota Trails. Stay out of the Land Use issues as a national(international) club, let people decide which Land Use organization they personally want to support (don't get me wrong here, BRC is huge and does a ton, but I'm sure there are others out there like me that support many). We are ~3000 members...of which ~1000 attend events throughout the year.

As to marketing, I still say update the logo with different series of the FJ's. Everyone has their own niche into being a LC owner...let them show it off. Keep the TLCA logo as it is, but give our members options. How hard would it really be to take the 40 out of the logo and put in a 45/55/60/62/80/100/Runner/Mini/FJC/etc...

I think everyone that is a member of TLCA understands where it all started and appreciates everyone out there that wheels/restores the 40's.