Trunk Monkey
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I kind of tuned out with the grill badge hoopla.
TLCA name change what the heck? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter General Sherman
- Start date
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I kind of tuned out with the grill badge hoopla.
Does anybody remember the "lose the Lexus or lose my membership" fiasco from a few years back?
https://forum.ih8mud.com/tlca-discussion-forum/22356-lose-lexus-lose-my-membership.html
https://forum.ih8mud.com/tlca-discussion-forum/22356-lose-lexus-lose-my-membership.html
sailor
Jackass of all trades
Against. Strongly. This is chickensheet.
I can cruise a whole lot of land in my 4x4 tacoma.
Personally I think Toyota / Land / Cruiser / Association fits what we do pretty darned well.
keep it TLCA
timmer
TLCA chapter VP
Southen Nevada Land Cruisers
Personally I think Toyota / Land / Cruiser / Association fits what we do pretty darned well.
keep it TLCA
timmer
TLCA chapter VP
Southen Nevada Land Cruisers
I think the name should stick; Landcruisers are just cool, as are their owners!
If the TLCA changes to the Toyota 4WD A I for one will be hard pressed to find reason to renew. Not that I have anything against the larger picture. But, I did not join the TLCA years ago for the larger picture. I joined TLCA because it was about Land Cruisers. And because of that I happened to meet a group of great people. Some who have Jeeps, some mini-trucks, and other makes.
I have been a silent supporter of the TLCA, and have attended TLCA sanctioned events.. I was going to renew for another 3 years...but if this debate is going on...I guess it will be year by year for me and see how it plays out.
I like that this is a Land Cruiser association. I like that the bylaws allows some flexibility for individual clubs, but the main focus or thrust of the individual clubs remains TLC ownership and heritage. And I think it's important for individual members.
There are many organizations available if someone wants to branch out from a narrow focus: Locally, I joined the http://www.4wdabc.ca/ to connect with and support the local 4x4 community, and I hang silently at the Expedition Portal for the expedition crowd. And of course IH8MUD for the greater Land Cruiser crowd.
Would changing the name and focus water down the intent and heritage the name Land Cruiser evokes. How many of the IH8MUD crowd have TLCA memberships. And if not, why not. How many chapter clubs have 100% of their Land Cruiser owners in the TLCA? What keeps current TLCA members? Why have members left? All questions that have been asked before, I am sure.
I don't begrudge, or think someone else is snobby and elitist if they have a FJCruiser and belong to a specific FJclub. Nor, Rover, nor Jeep, nor Tundra, etc. And the same for Land Cruiser. When I 1st heard about the TLCA in the late 90's and when I talk to others in this time about the TLCA...it primarily as a Land Cruiser niche organization. With admittedly some influence from some really nice people in other Toyota's, and Brands of 4x4.
I don't buy into the mentality that "if it's not growing something is wrong". Perhaps the TLCA is not dieing. Perhaps it's just being reborn to the core group of Land Cruiser minded people from around the world whom want to connect with other like minded people. Is that such a bad thing?
I'm trying decide what is a knee jerk built in human response to change, in my self, versus what sits right after some thought...for me. Look at various boards and venues for like minded people around the world to get together. All the larger ones have split-outs for individual vehicle makes, and some go further, defining models inside those makes. So, it's not that we all can't hang together and get along on the internet, or around a campfire, or stop and help someone on the trail (gentle ribbing aside). We've (for the most part) proved this is possible.
Is this a question of: "is growth for the sake of growth versus losing the Land Cruiser focus of the TLCA worth it?" My gut says it is not worthwhile loosing this heritage. We might not have a gloss magazine. We might not have a "growing" membership. But we will probably be left with those you want to hang with...TLC owner or not.
And, when someone gets bitten by the Land Cruiser bug...there's a place for them to go. I guess one question to ask is “Where would someone new and bitten with the Land Cruiser bug go right now?” If not the TLCA, why not, and how can the TLCA change things to get them too.
This is not a public stance for G&S Cruiserparts. This is my personal opinion.
gb
I have been a silent supporter of the TLCA, and have attended TLCA sanctioned events.. I was going to renew for another 3 years...but if this debate is going on...I guess it will be year by year for me and see how it plays out.
I like that this is a Land Cruiser association. I like that the bylaws allows some flexibility for individual clubs, but the main focus or thrust of the individual clubs remains TLC ownership and heritage. And I think it's important for individual members.
There are many organizations available if someone wants to branch out from a narrow focus: Locally, I joined the http://www.4wdabc.ca/ to connect with and support the local 4x4 community, and I hang silently at the Expedition Portal for the expedition crowd. And of course IH8MUD for the greater Land Cruiser crowd.
Would changing the name and focus water down the intent and heritage the name Land Cruiser evokes. How many of the IH8MUD crowd have TLCA memberships. And if not, why not. How many chapter clubs have 100% of their Land Cruiser owners in the TLCA? What keeps current TLCA members? Why have members left? All questions that have been asked before, I am sure.
I don't begrudge, or think someone else is snobby and elitist if they have a FJCruiser and belong to a specific FJclub. Nor, Rover, nor Jeep, nor Tundra, etc. And the same for Land Cruiser. When I 1st heard about the TLCA in the late 90's and when I talk to others in this time about the TLCA...it primarily as a Land Cruiser niche organization. With admittedly some influence from some really nice people in other Toyota's, and Brands of 4x4.
I don't buy into the mentality that "if it's not growing something is wrong". Perhaps the TLCA is not dieing. Perhaps it's just being reborn to the core group of Land Cruiser minded people from around the world whom want to connect with other like minded people. Is that such a bad thing?
I'm trying decide what is a knee jerk built in human response to change, in my self, versus what sits right after some thought...for me. Look at various boards and venues for like minded people around the world to get together. All the larger ones have split-outs for individual vehicle makes, and some go further, defining models inside those makes. So, it's not that we all can't hang together and get along on the internet, or around a campfire, or stop and help someone on the trail (gentle ribbing aside). We've (for the most part) proved this is possible.
Is this a question of: "is growth for the sake of growth versus losing the Land Cruiser focus of the TLCA worth it?" My gut says it is not worthwhile loosing this heritage. We might not have a gloss magazine. We might not have a "growing" membership. But we will probably be left with those you want to hang with...TLC owner or not.
And, when someone gets bitten by the Land Cruiser bug...there's a place for them to go. I guess one question to ask is “Where would someone new and bitten with the Land Cruiser bug go right now?” If not the TLCA, why not, and how can the TLCA change things to get them too.
This is not a public stance for G&S Cruiserparts. This is my personal opinion.
gb
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Oh yeah - that would make this an objective discussion.
NOT.
Sounds more like a mutual admiration snob thread. A lot of people with 4Runners and mini's don't join just because of attitudes like this. The name says "Land Cruiser" and there are people who turn up their noses at those who don't actually own a "Land Cruiser" so a lot of people don't join, anecdotal data notwithstanding.
If you want the organization to keep its membership up in the face of declining imports of new Land Cruisers, get rid of the name and you can still go have your own little campfire off to the side of what will become that of a larger and larger majority if you want.
In the meantime write Toyota and tell them to import 70's!
I agree with Greg_B. I joined to be part of the TLCA. I'm okay that FJC and Mini trucks are part, but just opening it up takes away from the purpose- "A club of Land Cruiser owners".
However big or small the group is, is not important. It will change size and may need to be scaled back. If the BOD can't make everything work with the money they have, then I presume they need to scale back the costs.
Also remember for probably 80% of the members who are members only for a magazine for Land cruiser owners, and don't go to events, you should consider cutting the cost somewhere other than the mag.
No name change.
However big or small the group is, is not important. It will change size and may need to be scaled back. If the BOD can't make everything work with the money they have, then I presume they need to scale back the costs.
Also remember for probably 80% of the members who are members only for a magazine for Land cruiser owners, and don't go to events, you should consider cutting the cost somewhere other than the mag.
No name change.
If you are on the BOD then you should be kicked out. This should not be posted here. BOD reps is here for a reason so not everything is put out there until there is an actual proposal or change. This is simply a discussion and if you have been following the emails you would know this. There has been no proposal just conversation. The same conversation that has been going on for the past 5 years. The whole purpose of BOD reps is to discuss and then bring it to the membership. Now you have got people all upset and started drama when there was none to start. There has already been discussion if there is anythign done with the name it would go to the members to get their feelings.
There really was no reason to post this since it was just discussion and nothing more than that. There has been no proposal of any sort. Go a reread the emails and you will see that. Now you have everyone pissed off about something that was just an idea and thats it.
There really was no reason to post this since it was just discussion and nothing more than that. There has been no proposal of any sort. Go a reread the emails and you will see that. Now you have everyone pissed off about something that was just an idea and thats it.
This is the first I've heard mention of this, and while I understand where some might be coming from in even thinking of this in the first place, I am against a name change.
Totally disagree with the name change.
Wow, does this mean other ideas brought up for discussion on the BOD e-mail will be posted in the open as well. I bet that will help people want to speak up
I'll admit it, I am the one that stirred the pot. My goal was not to change the name but to get people to open a dialogue on how to improve the TLCA. My real goals is a Vision, Strategy and set of goals that remembers the Land Cruiser Heritage, but is inclusive of all Toyota 4WD's. Anyone on Bod will have seen the latest e-mail where I drafted up a strategy, vision, mission statement and goals for the TLCA. Here is a subset:
The discussion of a name change was an option to get people stirred up and open to other options. There is no serious proposal being decided on by the BOD
The reason the BOD e-mail list is private is so all club delegates can have an open dialogue before something is brought to the membership at large.
I assume you want your delegates representing you to be able to have an open conversation without fear of retribution for something taken completely out of context. Shouldn't in a private medium people feel free to openly brainstorm any and all ideas to dveelop the best solution?
Your TLCA President has said this is an issue that should be presented to all members for consideration. No one is trying to blind side you.
Yes I stirred the pot with this. Yes I own two Land Cruisers and yes if the TLCA shrinks to being a small group of cruiser heads, I will be one of them. To begin discussion I only suggested making it the Toyota AND Land Cruiser Association to keep it the TLCA. The discussion on the BOD and within my club shows any name change has large differences of opinion that would be destructive to the TLCA.
If you want to blame someone, blame me for bringing it up this time in trying to open a discussion on how to better serve the current TLCA membership. Don't go all MOB out of control towards the TLCA BOD.
I'll admit it, I am the one that stirred the pot. My goal was not to change the name but to get people to open a dialogue on how to improve the TLCA. My real goals is a Vision, Strategy and set of goals that remembers the Land Cruiser Heritage, but is inclusive of all Toyota 4WD's. Anyone on Bod will have seen the latest e-mail where I drafted up a strategy, vision, mission statement and goals for the TLCA. Here is a subset:
Mission Statement - The mission of the Toyota Land Cruiser Association (TLCA) is to enhance and expand the knowledge of our Toyota membership for responsible wheeling, environmental awareness, vehicle education and networking among like minded folks to build extended family relationships
Vision Statement - An association of Toyota 4WD owners that has a special place for the Land Cruiser, yet is inclusive of all Toyota 4WD owners
Values Statement
• Appreciation for the Land Cruiser and its heritage.
• Appreciation of the evolution of Toyota 4WD vehicles
• Camaraderie and recreation among members.
• Sharing of knowledge and expertise.
• Responsible Land Use, lifelong driving skills and social responsibility.
Vision Statement - An association of Toyota 4WD owners that has a special place for the Land Cruiser, yet is inclusive of all Toyota 4WD owners
Values Statement
• Appreciation for the Land Cruiser and its heritage.
• Appreciation of the evolution of Toyota 4WD vehicles
• Camaraderie and recreation among members.
• Sharing of knowledge and expertise.
• Responsible Land Use, lifelong driving skills and social responsibility.
The discussion of a name change was an option to get people stirred up and open to other options. There is no serious proposal being decided on by the BOD
The reason the BOD e-mail list is private is so all club delegates can have an open dialogue before something is brought to the membership at large.
I assume you want your delegates representing you to be able to have an open conversation without fear of retribution for something taken completely out of context. Shouldn't in a private medium people feel free to openly brainstorm any and all ideas to dveelop the best solution?
Your TLCA President has said this is an issue that should be presented to all members for consideration. No one is trying to blind side you.
Yes I stirred the pot with this. Yes I own two Land Cruisers and yes if the TLCA shrinks to being a small group of cruiser heads, I will be one of them. To begin discussion I only suggested making it the Toyota AND Land Cruiser Association to keep it the TLCA. The discussion on the BOD and within my club shows any name change has large differences of opinion that would be destructive to the TLCA.
If you want to blame someone, blame me for bringing it up this time in trying to open a discussion on how to better serve the current TLCA membership. Don't go all MOB out of control towards the TLCA BOD.
I think calling it the "Toyota and Land Cruiser Association" is a good idea. I was going to say a lot more but will leave it at that.
The organization (TLCA) was started to embrace a great invention, a truck that lasts forever, goes anywhere, and put Toyota on the international market as well as it became their back bone for many, many years. We all, in one way or another, worship this truck and therefore have joined many people clear across this entire world to create and support a club that shares, promotes and sponsors our addiction. Should we exclude our friends from this club that drive things other then a Land Cruiser, no, the mentality of all our clubs is to have a good, fun, responsible adventure where anyone that has the same mentality can join and make this a better experience. Does that mean we should change the name? No! the history behind the truck and the name of the club that honours that should not be altered for sheer business purposes.
Many of those that bought a Toyota did so because of the history that the original Land Cruiser developed, if the TLCA has issues with membership maybe we should find a way to work with Toyota and promote the club (as well as new versions of the Cruiser), right now I'm guessing that they would co-operate even more then usual to boost their image.
Look, I'm a die hard Cruiser addict, do I question the guys that drive Land Cruisers with Chevy engines in them, yes, do I think any different of them, no, I still love wheeling with them, going camping and sharing adventures. Do I think that keeping a Land Cruiser body and changing everything else does not make it a Land Cruiser, yes, but it's more then just an engine, transmission, and axles thing. It's a state of mind, a way of life, a belief in taking care of our environment, our friends, and exploring places that haven't seen human life in ages, and always making it back, all of us, to get ready for another adventure.
Leave the classic alone, let the history speak for itself, let the name of the Land Cruiser, just like the truck, out-live us all.
P.S. - I live in Canada, other then the River Shiver run there are no other TLCA sponsored events here. On average the TLCA does not have a significant impact on our clubs up here, but that's not the reason why I am a member. If would be nice to see some more Canadian involvement but I am happy to support a club that believes in the same values as I do even if I never see any other benefits or perks.
Many of those that bought a Toyota did so because of the history that the original Land Cruiser developed, if the TLCA has issues with membership maybe we should find a way to work with Toyota and promote the club (as well as new versions of the Cruiser), right now I'm guessing that they would co-operate even more then usual to boost their image.
Look, I'm a die hard Cruiser addict, do I question the guys that drive Land Cruisers with Chevy engines in them, yes, do I think any different of them, no, I still love wheeling with them, going camping and sharing adventures. Do I think that keeping a Land Cruiser body and changing everything else does not make it a Land Cruiser, yes, but it's more then just an engine, transmission, and axles thing. It's a state of mind, a way of life, a belief in taking care of our environment, our friends, and exploring places that haven't seen human life in ages, and always making it back, all of us, to get ready for another adventure.
Leave the classic alone, let the history speak for itself, let the name of the Land Cruiser, just like the truck, out-live us all.
P.S. - I live in Canada, other then the River Shiver run there are no other TLCA sponsored events here. On average the TLCA does not have a significant impact on our clubs up here, but that's not the reason why I am a member. If would be nice to see some more Canadian involvement but I am happy to support a club that believes in the same values as I do even if I never see any other benefits or perks.
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With the 40s ,60 and even some early 80s becoming some what of a rarity and rapidly passing into antique status, and the new LCs out of reach for all but the most wealthy users, holding on blindly to a notion of the Landcruiser as a vehicle make that defines this association rather than a moniker used as a definition of what we are is folly. A folly that ultimately leads to the dereliction of present and potential memberships in this association and its demise.
Some of the posts I have read seem to reflect even amplify a sentiment that any member other than a owner of a LC is somewhat of a second classs citizen in this association. I find such an underlying vein of desention very disturbing. A well known figure once stated "A house divided against itself can not stand" and likewise the TLCA can not stand any similar division. Be that a division of by-law, by contentiousness or elitest member ideal.
TTORA is a case in point as are the hundreds of regional FJC and other toyota clubs out there, some members of which were undoubtably driven away from the TLCA by such elitest attitudes and mindsets. Here in SoNV this degradation is similarly evidenced by the 4 or 5 FJC or other "toyota" clubs that have sprung up over the past years. these clubs vehicle dependant or other have drained off most of our perspective new member base even to the point where our sanctioning could be imperiled.
It is mindsets such as these that will turn this association from a world class 4x4 community into another divided and splintered old car club.
Tim Stine
Some of the posts I have read seem to reflect even amplify a sentiment that any member other than a owner of a LC is somewhat of a second classs citizen in this association. I find such an underlying vein of desention very disturbing. A well known figure once stated "A house divided against itself can not stand" and likewise the TLCA can not stand any similar division. Be that a division of by-law, by contentiousness or elitest member ideal.
TTORA is a case in point as are the hundreds of regional FJC and other toyota clubs out there, some members of which were undoubtably driven away from the TLCA by such elitest attitudes and mindsets. Here in SoNV this degradation is similarly evidenced by the 4 or 5 FJC or other "toyota" clubs that have sprung up over the past years. these clubs vehicle dependant or other have drained off most of our perspective new member base even to the point where our sanctioning could be imperiled.
It is mindsets such as these that will turn this association from a world class 4x4 community into another divided and splintered old car club.
Tim Stine
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