TLCA name change what the heck?

[canucksafari]

i can tell you that Nissan patrol does not share the most important thing with a 4runner, that would be Toyota.

True, but my wife's old Tercel does. Now if added another drive axle and a TC in it I would be good to go, eh? IMO, nothing trumps quality engineering and construction. Also, there is nothing wrong with a 4Runner but it it could never be consider in the same class as say a Troopie.

 

[REKCUT]

All of you with sand in you panties and self centeredness around landcruisers only reaffirms to me that I won't renew my membership next year. It has nothing to do with the name change but has to do with the attitude of not wanting TLCA to evolve and become a better organization.

Personal observation. I have yet to find a "Land Cruiser" owner that is anything except friendly and open to owners any type of Toyota 4x4. I do however see some other types of Toyota 4x4 owners that have "chips" on their shoulders when it comes to Land Cruisers. What is it that has you so worked up about Land Cruiser owners? And please dont mistake pride for being a snob.

 

[REKCUT]

If you are on the BOD then you should be kicked out. This should not be posted here. BOD reps is here for a reason so not everything is put out there until there is an actual proposal or change. This is simply a discussion and if you have been following the emails you would know this. There has been no proposal just conversation. The same conversation that has been going on for the past 5 years. The whole purpose of BOD reps is to discuss and then bring it to the membership. Now you have got people all upset and started drama when there was none to start. There has already been discussion if there is anythign done with the name it would go to the members to get their feelings.

There really was no reason to post this since it was just discussion and nothing more than that. There has been no proposal of any sort. Go a reread the emails and you will see that. Now you have everyone pissed off about something that was just an idea and thats it.

I disagree with this completely. The job of the TLCA rep is to attend the meetings and report back to his or her chapter on what has happened during the meetings. The minutes are also posted up later and provided to the members of each chapter. They used to be linked up on the TLCA website for any TLCA member to view. I also believe that on several occasions Jeff has stated that any TLCA member can listen in on the monthly meetings. The job of the BOD rep is to be a go between with the TLCA and the chapter, and be the spokes person for the chapter. I find it hard to convey the chapters wishes without first informing them of whats going on and like many chapters, Mud is a major vessel in communication tool for the chapters.

The job of the reps is to inform members of the TLCA discussions and to relay information back to the tlca, not to scurry around behind a curtain and hold meetings in dark places.

 

[megolfer]

Yes it is the Reps job to to this, but not on the emails. If everything that is posted on the emails is posted here, then whats the point. The emails are for ideas and discussion. It shouldnot be for everyone to see. What if the name change never would have been discussed at the meeting, then people would have got all upset and all the drama was for nothing.

I totally agree that the reps job is to report back to their clubs about he meetings and what is discussed, but I dont think that everything that is posted on the emails need to be come public until it is discussed at an official meeting.

I disagree with this completely. The job of the TLCA rep is to attend the meetings and report back to his or her chapter on what has happened during the meetings. The minutes are also posted up later and provided to the members of each chapter. They used to be linked up on the TLCA website for any TLCA member to view. I also believe that on several occasions Jeff has stated that any TLCA member can listen in on the monthly meetings. The job of the BOD rep is to be a go between with the TLCA and the chapter, and be the spokes person for the chapter. I find it hard to convey the chapters wishes without first informing them of whats going on and like many chapters, Mud is a major vessel in communication tool for the chapters.

The job of the reps is to inform members of the TLCA discussions and to relay information back to the tlca, not to scurry around behind a curtain and hold meetings in dark places.

 

[REKCUT]

I guess we see it differently. The entire chapter cant be in on the discussions so the rep is there for them. I dont just tell them whats happens at the meeting, I tell them about everything I feel is important to them. The name change would fall into that category and I would want it out for all to see. I dont feel that anything good is accomplished by keeping the members in the dark. On the other hand, keeping things hidden until the last minute is good way to sneak things by.

The news of the BRC deal was put out as soon as it was discussed and no one had a problem with it. The limited addition Grill badges went out before they were anounced at a monthly meeting. But a name change needs to stay quiet until??

On this item the news needs to go out before a vote is announced. If there is enough of an uproar then maybe we wont wast time trying to vote it in, or the effort to slide it in.

 

[CruisinFJ60]

If the BOD is thinking of a name change, I think ALL TLCA members should vote on it, not just the BOD. I joined because it was a "Land cruiser" Organization. I do not mind if other makes of Toyota 4x4 join, but the name should stay true to it's roots.

Agreed 100% word for word in its entirety.

 

[BudKing]

Personal observation. I have yet to find a "Land Cruiser" owner that is anything except friendly and open to owners any type of Toyota 4x4. I do however see some other types of Toyota 4x4 owners that have "chips" on their shoulders when it comes to Land Cruisers.

It's my opinion, that TLCA should keeps it's name. When we did join up or were "allowed to join", we knew what we were getting into with the name. Having said that and reading some of the comments and emails, some Land Cruiser owners would rather it be Land Cruiser exclusive, which I understand and I'm fine with. Instead of making it mandatory to be a member at a TLCA event, put a $10, 15 or 20 dollar surcharge on events like Rubithon, Cruise Moab and other TLCA events and see what that does to your membership. I've been biting my tongue over this whole subject, but maybe being treated as a second class citizen by some for years would put a chip on your shoulder too! I go back over thirty years in the debate of Land Cruiser owners vs other makes of Toyota's. In my opinion, being told by some, that we're not welcome and/or our vehicles can't make it or that we don't have an iconic vehicle such as the Land Cruiser, would put a chip on your shoulder too, if you were a Non-Land Cruiser owner.

Never having wheeled in the Mid-West , I don't know what the attitudes are there, I can assure you, I have met plenty of Land Cruiser owners that are anything but friendly and open to owners of other Toyota's, here on the West Coast. Don't get me wrong, I have met great people and have many friends that are Land Cruiser owner's, but there are those exceptions as with any group, so I do take offense to your comment that Land Cruiser owner's are open and friendly to all other Toyota 4x4, having seen this first hand at many events and reading the comments on the forum and emails. If you'd like to see this for yourself, come to the West Coast and go on a few runs in something other than a Land Cruiser.

I'm always reading about the "Brotherhood of the Land Cruiser Owner's", however; one of my friends in an FJ-40 on his way to Surf-n-Turf was broken down on Hwy 101 for over an hour and a half and not one of his "Brother's" stopped to see if he needed any help! I however, stopped to assist and ran for parts, as I would have done for any Toyota 4x4 owner.

I don't think a name change will bring in new members, I do however feel that an attitude change and more support for the Chapter's will.

My 2 cents.....

 

[REKCUT]

I have never been to a west coast event so I will have to take your word on that. I have been to many central events from Colorado, down through Texas and up through the midwest. I seen nothing but acceptance for any type of Rig. I know that the TLCA started west coast and perhaps there is some lingering old school thoughts associated with some of those original clubs, but from clubs I have visited which include. TX, OK, CO, AR, MS, MO, KS, IA, IN, IL, LA, TN, AL, and I am sure a few other, the attitude towards other types of Toy 4x4 is indeed inclusive.

I am absolutely interested in having as many types of Toyota's involved in tbe organization as possible, but I am not really open to changing the name to water down the history or heritage of the TLCA.

I have yet to see any post that suggest keeping the TLCA as a Land Cruiser only organization. The comment I see are that the name should stay Land Cruiser. TLCA should improve its support and relevance to chapters, and they in turn will expand the quality base of its members.

 

[BudKing]

I have never been to a west coast event so I will have to take your word on that. I have been to many central events from Colorado, down through Texas and up through the midwest. I seen nothing but acceptance for any type of Rig. I know that the TLCA started west coast and perhaps there is some lingering old school thoughts associated with some of those original clubs, but from clubs I have visited which include. TX, OK, CO, AR, MS, MO, KS, IA, IN, IL, LA, TN, AL, and I am sure a few other, the attitude towards other types of Toy 4x4 is indeed inclusive.

I am absolutely interested in having as many types of Toyota's involved in tbe organization as possible, but I am not really open to changing the name to water down the history or heritage of the TLCA.

I have yet to see any post that suggest keeping the TLCA as a Land Cruiser only organization. The comment I see are that the name should stay Land Cruiser. TLCA should improve its support and relevance to chapters, and they in turn will expand the quality base of its members.

Having lots of relatives, spending time and owning property in the Mid-West, I have to agree with you about the fact that the people are nicer and friendlier in that part of the Country. I hope to someday make it to an event in that area to see it first hand.

As far as the Land Cruiser only, the post may not be in this thread, but in other's and if you're on the BOD email list, you will see it there. I agree with you on the fact that TLCA should keeps it's name and improve on it's support and relevance to chapters and expanding the quality base of it's members.

 

[kim]

I was just reading the history of the TLCA, again, and I looked at the first write up on the idea of forming a club for Toyota 4x4's only. I believe this was in '76.

TLCA : History Part One - The Early Years

 

[Rzeppa]

the name change topic comes up every year, causing a ton of churn at the BOD levels, ususally pisses someone to no extent and dies an aggravated and undocumented death.

Leave it alone, says the driver of a mini truck.

Hi Tony, well put. I have also written and said to the board pretty much what you wrote above. There have been board members who have recently expressed that leadership is unresponsive and this issue has been used as an example. So I formed a committee at our last meeting to act on the issue. The committee's mission is to formulate a list of pros and cons and report back to the board. I am sure that mining this thread, as well as the various comments that have been made on bodreps, both recently and if anyone cares to peruse the archives, will quickly and easily flesh out that list of pros and cons. They may well also come up with new ones no one has expressed yet.

The bottom line is, we are going to put this thing to bed one way or the other, so we can focus our time and energy tackling our other myriad tasks.

 

[Rzeppa]

Leave the dam name alone.

If you want to expand TLCA, simply focus on helping our chapters. The independent members of TLCA are basically magazine subscribers. At every event, folks identify themselves with their CHAPTER, not TLCA.

So... help the chapters and you help TLCA.
Happy Trails! N

Thank you Nick, and well said. That is among the primary strategies I laid out in our 2009 plan and reiterated for our 2010 plan. In my estimation we can move TLCA forward and increase our success most effectively by taking tangible steps in executing our tactics which support our strategies to further our goals.

I added investigating changing our name as a tactic in the 2010 plan, but it is in no way a goal or strategy. A few members of the board felt it is important to them, and leadership is not going to ignore them. I tied it in as potentially furthuring one of our goals:

(2) We will continue to be the world’s foremost non-profit car club for those interested in Toyota 4x4s, and to bring those people together in our membership.

 

[NorCalBorn]

Some of the posts I have read seem to reflect even amplify a sentiment that any member other than a owner of a LC is somewhat of a second classs citizen in this association. I find such an underlying vein of desention very disturbing. A well known figure once stated "A house divided against itself can not stand" and likewise the TLCA can not stand any similar division. Be that a division of by-law, by contentiousness or elitest member ideal.

It is mindsets such as these that will turn this association from a world class 4x4 community into another divided and splintered old car club.

Tim Stine

Quite true, and why I think a change to "Toyota and Land Cruiser Association" or something similar is something to be considered, and not just dismissed out of some sort of misplaced vanity.

Amen X-2! I for one am tired of people seeing my club stickers on the 4Runner and wise cracking with "TLCA, huh? Those Lame-o's Can Agree? " .

Honestly, all this debate over the word "and"? Why? Thats like arguing over "and justice for all" versus "with justice for all". It still gets the point across.
*No I am not trying to disrespect our pledge, just showing the word play is all.*

You can definitely do it as Toyota and Land Cruiser Association.

It all boils down to attitude and preconceived impressions, all of which people tend to throw out the window when you're making them get their dry shoes wet and dirty while making them attach their own line for recovery. The same unbiased and helpful courtesy has been extended to me by some 60 and 40 users, and I would just as easily extend it to a Jeeper, as a member representing our association and local club. We're all just people out to enjoy our vehicles and the dirt, right? Do we not try to treat others as we would like to be treated?

We are supposedly one group, all Toyota 4wd Owners of one sort or another. If modifying something as small as the name creates a stronger national presence in terms of access rights and influence, do it. I take pride in accepting when I need help, as well as giving it, and honestly feel that the added "and" will in a small way, create a bigger effect, unifying all of us, not just in implication, but in stated fact and purpose for existence.

Again, if it creates the impression of a stronger, unified bond that will allow us better influence in the issues we are currently facing, as well as those we might face in the future, do it. The club as a whole will look better for it in the eyes of all that are upon or dealing with us.



Why do anything otherwise, you're only gonna be pissing on your own shoes in doing so. It's just one little word. Nobody is gonna die or be personally maimed over one little word.

 

[packman73]

Either change the name or change the logo...that's my two cents...if you y'all want to change the "perception" that we are only a Land Cruiser club, then have several logos, one with a 40 (what we have now), one with a 45, 55, etc...let people pick what they want...

TTORA used to be Toyota TACOMA Off Road Association...it's now Toyota Territory Off Road Association and they updated their logo...just sayin...

 

[Bodean]

I agree with the logo idea Art. It would be a way to make some money on merchandise as well. A lot of (other than 40) owners would want something unique to their model Cruiser.

Later,

 

[frobuster]

I've been down the logo road before; with a club of this size, it would be moot to agree on one vehicle, and even a larger mess diversifying into more than one logo. If we change the logo, it's gonna have to remain the same vehicle, or have no vehicle depicted at all. I now definately see the WTF idea with displaying our current name and logo on, say a Tacoma. (I do proudly have club stuff on my taco, and minitruck). I just don't think it constitutes the unpredictable consequences of a name change. Maybe if anything have two separate names, keep the tlca and add say, (t4wda) also as a sub-club?

 

[65swb45]

Neil, thanks for starting this. SInce I signed off of BODreps, MUD is now my exclusive source of TLCA drama!;p How ironic!

As you can see from wardfoto and Mr. Zepp's comments, the executive board does not have a problem with you soiciting opinions from the mainstream membership for them to help 'flesh out' the pros and cons of a name change, although I agree with others that THE WAY YOU STARTED this thread wasn't likely to produce that result. Luckily, few were intimidated by your tone, and I think the thread has done well DESPITE YOU!;p

My. 02 is a bit cliche. You have to stand for something, or you will fall for anything. In this case, I believe the name should stay the same.

I believe in my heart and soul that the majority of those who wish for a name change will in short order find something else to fault the association for, and leave anyways, while many of our core members will have already left an association that let go of one of the last vestiges of it's heritage. It will be the final nail in the coffin that assures those members TLCA has totally embraced quantity over quality. It is a desperate idea to save an association that cannot come to terms with 'living' within its means.

Thanks for reading.

Best

Mark A. TLCA #1086, member since 1986

 

[Rzeppa]

... will in short order find something else to fault the association for...

Gee Mark, it sounds like you've not only seen this movie and know how it ends, but have been inside the sausage factory as well

In all seriousness, most of the time people point out perceived problems, and very seldom do they propose (practical) solutions. This is an instance where a perceived problem was brought up for the umpteenth time, and a practical solution was suggested. In due course, I formulated a process where we can evaluate the proposed solution on it's merits and make a final decision. For now.

I happen to agree that with the quality versus quantity argument, and am of the belief that with quality, then the quantity will manifest organically.

 

[Rzeppa]

But a name change needs to stay quiet until??

On this item the news needs to go out before a vote is announced. If there is enough of an uproar then maybe we wont wast time trying to vote it in, or the effort to slide it in.

I devoted a substantial portion of my Trail Leader column in the May/June issue of Toyota Trails to this topic, and encouraged all TLCA members to please contact their chapter delegate or IR to voice their opinion to represent their preference. That's about as far and wide as you can get.

 

[NorCalBorn]

Mark, I gotta say, out of all the counters I have read, including my input, you present the simplest and best view. Now, I may not agree with you, I will say again, well put. One of the reasons you're good at your business, and why you garner respect.