Timing Marks Won't Align (1 Viewer)

[Cbill]

I finally got my 1FZFE motor from the rebuild shop and installed in the 93 LC (gas). Identified some leftover bolts thanks to all the input from this forum, and cranked it up. It ran ok despite a high idle so I left it for the night. Today I tried to set the timing and that's when I hit a wall. The timing marks will not line up no matter where I set the distributor.

I followed the usual procedure:
1- put the #1 cylinder at TDC.
2- set the rotor to point at #1 wire on the cap.
3- warmed up motor and turned off AC.
4- jumped the pins on the DLC
5- hooked up the timing light to #1 cyl wire.

The engine started pretty rough but then smoothed out to idle at about 2100 rpm's. When I put the timing light on it I could barely see the pulley mark off to the left of the marks on the timing chain cover. I rotated the distributor counter clockwise until it hit the bolt but I could only get it down to about 13 degrees. I thought I could remove the distributor and jump a gear to bring it back around, but no joy. It would run but the pulley marks were an inch or two on the other side of the numbers, below the 3 degree mark. Finally, I reset it back to where it was supposed to be but left the bolt out so that it would travel past the normal stop. I could get it to go down to 3 degrees when the bolt hole was completely covered but it ran really bad. Almost dying every few seconds.

Any ideas what's going on? My thoughts are that when the rebuild shop installed the new timing chain kit and put the cams back in, they didn't align it correctly. Would that cause this?

I verified that the spark plug wires were all routed correctly and rechecked to make sure my TDC was not 180 degrees off ( not at the top of the exhaust stroke). Any help would be appreciated!

 

[robnicko]

a bit of work but I'd be pulling the valve cover off to make sure the dots on the cams are lined up and pulley timing mark lined up at TDC and then reset the distributor accordingly

 

[TheBussman]

how much was milled from the head and block during the rebuild? did they use a thicker head-gasket to compensate? it does affect the valve timing. if a lot was removed, really the camshaft sprocket should be machined accordingly, unless there is an adjustable sprocket available that i don't know about.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Did you confirm that your jumper wire made good contact by checking for a flashing CEL?

the terminals in the diagnostics port are loaded with dialectric grease and sometimes you don't get a good connection.

Also, the dustributor housing and distributor gear have match marks to help get the dizzy gear in the right slot.
Set the crank to TDC, align match marks on dizzy housing, hold dizzy housing so the adjustment slot is centred on the bolt hole while you slide the dizzy into place. Follow this, it's hard to get the dizzy wrong (assuming you're not 180⁰ out)

 

[hatzlibutzli]

I had a slipped harmonic balancer: the outer part was misaligned with the center, the rubber part ripped ... happened probably due to a seized AC-pulley.
To find out confirm, that TDC indicated by the harmonic balancer is really TDC. If you skip tearing of the valve cover, remove spark plug No1 and put in a piece of wire/wood stick to estimate TDC.

 

[flintknapper]

Also, the dustributor housing and distributor gear have match marks to help get the dizzy gear in the right slot.
Set the crank to TDC, align match marks on dizzy housing, hold dizzy housing so the adjustment slot is centred on the bolt hole while you slide the dizzy into place. Follow this, it's hard to get the dizzy wrong (assuming you're not 180⁰ out)

Agreed.

OP needs to be SURE the dizzy is properly installed before anything else.

Once engine is set TDC #1 cyl (compression stroke) then proceed with distributor installation.

Align Match Marks on Dizzy.

Insert such that the hold down bolt slot is roughly centered.

Watch the rotor position. As the helical gears on the dizzy mesh with the cam sprocket gear the rotor will rotate slightly clockwise to about the position shown below (representing the #1 plug wire port on the cap).

Install lock down bolt and snug it down just enough that you can move the dizzy by hand (for final timing), but centered should be enough timing to start the engine.

 

[Cbill]

I had a slipped harmonic balancer: the outer part was misaligned with the center, the rubber part ripped ... happened probably due to a seized AC-pulley.
To find out confirm, that TDC indicated by the harmonic balancer is really TDC. If you skip tearing of the valve cover, remove spark plug No1 and put in a piece of wire/wood stick to estimate TDC.

Do you mean the marks on the crankshaft pulley? I did check that when the motor is at top dead center, using the wire method, the notch on the pulley is lined up with the 3° mark. Is that what you mean?

 

[mudgudgeon]

the notch on the pulley is lined up with the 3° mark.

The notch on the crank pulley should be at 0⁰ when at TDC.
It takes a bit of guess work to be sure you're at TDC with the engine assembled because the pistons 'dwell' at TDC for several degrees.


Dwell, as in barely move as the crank journal and rod and piston transitions from moving upwards, to being at actual TDC, to moving downwards again as everything rotates

 

[Cbill]

The notch on the crank pulley should be at 0⁰ when at TDC.
It takes a bit of guess work to be sure you're at TDC with the engine assembled because the pistons 'dwell' at TDC for several degrees.


Dwell, as in barely move as the crank journal and rod and piston transitions from moving upwards, to being at actual TDC, to moving downwards again as everything rotates

 

[Cbill]

OK. Just wanted to be sure. I went out this morning and redid everything. Reset TDC. Pulled out the distributor and set it according to the pictures that you so helpfully provided! I had it right the first time but I didn't know that there were marks on the actual distributor to line up the rotor before you put it in. Anyway, I put it all back together and it did the same thing. Then I realized that it was idling too fast for a proper test. I think that's what was throwing the mark so far off. I fixed the sticky throttle cable and got it to drop back down. Now I am able to get it to line up with the marks even though the distributor is set at more of an angle than it was before I took it off for the rebuild. It used to be right in the middle but now it's almost all the way to one side. At least the 3° timing mark lines up. There is still something not right though. When I step on the gas it stumbles. I have to ease into it or it will die. Anytime I go from idle to accelerating it wants to die. If I'm idling and turn the steering wheel sometimes it dies. Is there a chance it just needs to be driven more? That's probably too optimistic. Any thoughts?

 

[TheBussman]

recheck all the connections, and then yea i would drive it if you safely can. Computer needs to learn a little and help those rings break in. if it still acting up after a drive then you'll have to keep trouble shooting.

 

[ajax1]

Intake air hose cracked in the ribs or loose

 

[mudgudgeon]

Intake air hose cracked in the ribs or loose

Definitely check this.

I swapped an engine in mine.
First half dozen drives idle was high, I thought I had an issue, but it sorted itself out

 

[ToyotaDon]

Try watching the timing while connecting and disconnecting the jumper wire at the DLC. If it does not move, then you likely need to adjust or replace the Throttle Position Sensor. Alternatively, you can watch the timing while barely cracking the throttle. It should jump up several degrees from the idle position (with jumper wire connected) if the IDL circuit of the TPS is working correctly.

 

[Cbill]

Intake air hose cracked in the ribs or loose

It's a new intake hose. I'll double check the fittings though. Thanks!

 

[Cbill]

Try watching the timing while connecting and disconnecting the jumper wire at the DLC. If it does not move, then you likely need to adjust or replace the Throttle Position Sensor. Alternatively, you can watch the timing while barely cracking the throttle. It should jump up several degrees from the idle position (with jumper wire connected) if the IDL circuit of the TPS is working correctly.

That would cause this symptom. I'll check it out. I think my Hayne's manual also has the test procedures for bench testing it. I didn't have any issues with it before the rebuild but who knows.

 

[BILT4ME]

That would cause this symptom. I'll check it out. I think my Hayne's manual also has the test procedures for bench testing it. I didn't have any issues with it before the rebuild but who knows.

Get rid of the Haynes manual and use the FSM from a download above in the RESOURCES section.