Time to build my 60 series, looking for best route to run 37’s…

Joined
May 23, 2015
Messages
64
Location
Kansas City
Hi guys! Looking to build a capable wagon for a do everything truck. I have a stock 60 with a great running 2F and 4 speed manual. 2 inch OME with bald 32’s. So it’s time to build. My previous truck was a fully armored 100 series triple locked with 4.88 gears and 35’s. That truck ran most of Moab and Colorado and even made one trip to the Rubicon. I’m looking to build the 60 up to do the same. I know it will never be a speedster, but it should be plenty capable in the rocks. Here is what I’m thinking, looking for pointers from members that have been there and done that. Also, I’ve been reading everything I can find on here and other sites. My main concern is to keep it from getting tippy. I’m thinking SR and SOA, 4.88 gears with ARB’s or Eharrop Eaton lockers. I’m concerned with how the e locker can unlock if the tire rolls and I’m sticking with a manual. A beadlock wheel and 37’s. If you could build yours again how would you do it?
 
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May 28, 2017
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in the woods
Hi guys! Looking to build a capable wagon for a do everything truck. I have a stock 60 with a great running 2F and 4 speed manual. 2 inch OME with bald 32’s. So it’s time to build. My previous truck was a fully armored 100 series triple locked with 4.88 gears and 35’s. That truck ran most of Moab and Colorado and even made one trip to the Rubicon. I’m looking to build the 60 up to do the same. I know it will never be a speedster, but it should be plenty capable in the rocks. Here is what I’m thinking, looking for pointers from members that have been there and done that. Also, I’ve been reading everything I can find on here and other sites. My main concern is to keep it from getting tippy. I’m thinking SR and SOA, 4.88 gears with ARB’s or Eharrop Eaton lockers. I’m concerned with how the e locker can unlock if the tire rolls and I’m sticking with a manual. A beadlock wheel and 37’s. If you could build yours again how would you do it?
i feel SOA n not tippy are almost mutually exclusive. not saying it can't be done. i forget who it was in here who was stuffing 35s with spring under. so with judicious work i can't see why 37s can't be be done. your gearing n locker plans are solid. my buddies that run e-lockers have never commented on issues unlocking while rolling. good luck
 

kevin in okinawa

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Apr 18, 2008
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816
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Waldorf, MD
Hi guys! Looking to build a capable wagon for a do everything truck. I have a stock 60 with a great running 2F and 4 speed manual. 2 inch OME with bald 32’s. So it’s time to build. My previous truck was a fully armored 100 series triple locked with 4.88 gears and 35’s. That truck ran most of Moab and Colorado and even made one trip to the Rubicon. I’m looking to build the 60 up to do the same. I know it will never be a speedster, but it should be plenty capable in the rocks. Here is what I’m thinking, looking for pointers from members that have been there and done that. Also, I’ve been reading everything I can find on here and other sites. My main concern is to keep it from getting tippy. I’m thinking SR and SOA, 4.88 gears with ARB’s or Eharrop Eaton lockers. I’m concerned with how the e locker can unlock if the tire rolls and I’m sticking with a manual. A beadlock wheel and 37’s. If you could build yours again how would you do it?
That sounds like my truck: SOA, SR, 37s, 4:88s, beadlocks, winches and armor. I love it. Do that combo.
 

The Machinist

making random stuff with cool machines
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Nampa, Idaho
Does anyone have details on clearing 37’s with a SUA?
1-44-1024x683.jpg
 

Hojack

Project Snowball❄️
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Cascade Foothills above Eagle Creek, Oregon 🇺🇸
0657BF37-D3F0-4742-8A10-0761CAE16BC7.jpeg

37” SOA with Chevy 63” rear leaf springs. Tapped gearbox with hydro assist. Hutchinson DOT beadlocks.
0AEAA03A-F737-4841-A020-802A214FC65A.jpeg
41DAD74D-7218-4A46-A501-1FDBF5312151.jpeg

Don’t let anybody tell you a SOA is too tall or uncomfortable. I drove my 60 stock 7 years before becoming a man and going SOA and having a good time! Mine drives better now than stock.
 

The Machinist

making random stuff with cool machines
Joined
Nov 10, 2011
Messages
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Location
Nampa, Idaho
37” SOA with Chevy 63” rear leaf springs. Tapped gearbox with hydro assist. Hutchinson DOT beadlocks.
Interesting note for anyone going the spring over route or just looking to swap Chevy 63" springs in general,... I measured my '21 Tundra's rear springs recently and they are also 63". May be a good option if for whatever reason you can't find chevy springs in good shape.
 
Joined
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Joined
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A few questions.

Have you run your gearing through the Grimmjeeper gear ratio calculator?

Have you driven a SOA 60 series?

Have you ever driven a 2F over the Rockies or the Sierra's?

How "in-love" are you with the idea of 37's?

Are you going to stick with Toyota axles forever?

Are you willing to have a doubler setup?

You sound experienced. Here's my 2 cents.

Without a doubler, that stupid H-42 transmission has a 39-1 crawl ratio. With 36" tall tires, (Most 37's are 35.5-36.4" tall when actually measured) your speed at 700 rpm in low range will be just shy of 2 mph or about 165 feet per minute with 4.88 gears. You are going to hate that on the Rubicon and similar trails. Reverse is 48-1. That gives you 1.5 mph in reverse at 700 rpm, or about 138 feet per minute. In a 6,000 lb rig. (My 62 weighs 5600 lbs with no armor and 36" swampers) you are asking too much of 132 horsepower at 3200 rpm and 200 lb/ft of torque 1600 rpm. You are going to burn that clutch up on the first good trail and hate life as you bang and clang across the rocks and beat the crap out of yourself and the rig.

On the highway, your cruise speed at 55 mph will be 3500 rpm in 3rd and 2500 rpm in 4th. That works until you try to drag 6K of rig up a 6-10% winding grade at 7-8K ft of elevation. Your going to be in 3rd gear at 3500 rpm a lot and you are going to suck as much gas as a big block chevy doing it. At 70 mph, which will feel quick in a SOA 60, you are at 4500 rpm in 3rd and 3200 rpm in 4th. If you are lucky and it's healthy, that 2f will pull you at 70 on the flats, but it will be on the floor or close to it.

With 37's, your rotating weight is heavy. Steel wheels will hurt your ability to accelerate, brake and pull hills enough that you'll notice when you swap to a set of aluminum wheels. Forget turning a set of 37" Toyo's that weigh 150lbs each mounted, look for something a little lighter unless you are o.k. with the tradeoffs. Stock brakes are going to suck. At a minimum, you'll want to upgrade to the later IFS style calipers and a good pad that has at least an FF rating so you can get enough cold pad grip to stop them. With a stick, you shouldn't be burning up the pads on downhills if you're willing to downshift and be patient. The rears are pretty good for drums.

Without sway bars, you'll miss your 100 series after the first week or so of mountain roads. With sway bars, you'll hate that the only way to get disconnects is to make them or swap to a Currie anti-rock style swaybar. You'll probably hate the factory sway bars that hang under the axle too, but the only way to get a leaf sprung 60 to flex much is with soft springs. Speaking of springs, your 2" lift springs will bring your SOA height to around 7-8" of actual lift once you do the conversion. They will also be positively arched, which helps with droop but increases your chance of inverting a shackle and bending a spring without some form of limiting device. You'll also need a traction bar of some sort, as the SOA exacerbates leaf sprung axle wrap.

Onto axles. Toy axles are limited to 5.29 gearing. That means a good crawl ratio requires a doubler or deep t-case gears, or both. Birfields are tough, under a mini truck on 37's. They aren't that tough under a 60 series with 37's, crappy gearing and abuse. We also have to discuss that rear semi-float axle. Just say no, to that right now. There are no more new aftermarket alloy shafts for the semi-float setups. You WILL break a short side shaft, right at the splines with 37's, a locker and wheelhop on a tractive surface. Digging that shaft out of an ARB rear locker may require a torch and ruin both the locker and the housing, not to mention, where are you going to find an unobtanium semi-float factory shaft on a 3-day weekend and a way to get it to the trail?

Before I make you quit the plan, go watch some youtube video's of flatfender jeeps on the Rubicon. They get it done, with small tires, armor and going slow but body damage will be the result in a wagon. They are also 1/2 the size and 1/2 the weight of a 60.. with better gearing.

Here's my recipe(s).

Lift: Lift it just enough to clear the tires. Remember, there are almost no available lift kits above the 2" range anymore without custom ordering one or finding someone that still makes them but doesn't advertise them. SOA works but has it's limitations. Stability is one of them. The Wagon Run on the Rubicon has a 60 that flops almost every year. Pretty sure, most all the flops are SOA versions.

Transmission: H-55 or H-41 swap with a granny gear low. Barring that, you can so an SM465 swap, if you can find the adapters. There are no Auto's that go behind a 2F unless you configure an FJ62 version and they really aren't worth the trouble.

T-Case: Crawl box or 4.0-1 transfercase gears, or both. Underdrive high range gears come with some of the 4-1 gearsets to help you cheat that next step.

Axles: 5.29 gears in the Yota axles, or swap to some Dana stuff and get 6.17's if you want to run the 37's. Otherwise, run a 35" tire, and gear to your liking. If you have to go 37's, then your are probably stuck with SOA. Just remember, you lose 3-4% horsepower for every 1,000 ft of elevation you gain. An engine, even a 2F, will run a lot longer at 3500 rpm in peak power at 3/4 throttle than it will at 3100 rpm lugging along on the floor and losing rpm every 1/4 mile as you climb grades.

Tires: Speaking of tires, lighter is good. Skinny works well too. A good set of 35's that actually measure 34" or so, will take you 90% of the way that 37's will take you. That extra 10% will cost you $$$. Try to keep a smaller wheel size so you can keep a good, flexy, sidewall. Airing down is the best way to make a leaf sprung rig ride like a coil sprung rig...

Engine: Add some HP and efficiency to that 2F. A good cam, mill the head to bring compression out of the 7-1 range, a header and a good carb that is jetted for power will do wonders compared to the stock motor. Otherwise ditch the stock motor. Yes, the LS platform is cool, but you don't have to, just because everyone else is doing it. A mild 350 cubic inch engine of any sort will do nicely. Remember, it's about torque at usable rpm, not peak power. A 383 with 300 hp at 4K rpm and 400 lb/ft at 2200 rpm will be much nicer than a 5.3 that peaks 330 lb/ft at 4000 rpm. If you want more, a 450+ cubic inch engine that loafs along at 1800 rpm with highway friendly axle gears will return close to the same mpg as a 2F that is screaming it's guts out. (Ask anybody that drives a school bus or a dump truck with a gas engine the difference in mpg between an old 6 cylinder and a big block... About the only difference is how long it takes you to get from one gas station to the next..)

Other factors: Don't discount wind resistance. You already know this, but leave that roof rack and rooftop tent at home. Wind resistance goes up exponentially as you go up in speed. They are also top-heavy. Fuel: You're going to need a lot of it at 10 mpg. The factory 20 gallon tank isn't enough once you are out west. Jerry cans work, but that long-range tank sure is easier than carrying 3 five gallon cans to have equivalent range.

Good luck, best wishes with your endeavor.
 
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
9,414
Many good points made. Understand the desire to run 37s. Making some minor common mistakes will hurt offroad ability a great deal. If you can live with the gutless 2f that will save a lot of money, you'll need the 4:1 gears in the tcase. A 2" body lift will give more tire clearance and keep some center of gravity to start and it's cheap to do. Most people refuse to do a body lift, but you wont regret doing it once done. With the 2" body lift youll only need 3" of suspension lift to fit 37s, 4" will fit them better. How you get that 3" is up to you. Well fitted bumpers and sliders will hide the body lift. The stock axle track width is too narrow for 37s. The rear axle is barely strong enough for 35s. So look into at least a different rear axle. A 100 series rear axle on leaf springs and a 80 series front would work good. Center of gravity, stability, and weight and weight distribution are major factors in capability-even going down the road.
 
Joined
May 23, 2015
Messages
64
Location
Kansas City
A few questions.

Have you run your gearing through the Grimmjeeper gear ratio calculator?

Have you driven a SOA 60 series?

Have you ever driven a 2F over the Rockies or the Sierra's?

How "in-love" are you with the idea of 37's?

Are you going to stick with Toyota axles forever?

Are you willing to have a doubler setup?

You sound experienced. Here's my 2 cents.

Without a doubler, that stupid H-42 transmission has a 39-1 crawl ratio. With 36" tall tires, (Most 37's are 35.5-36.4" tall when actually measured) your speed at 700 rpm in low range will be just shy of 2 mph or about 165 feet per minute with 4.88 gears. You are going to hate that on the Rubicon and similar trails. Reverse is 48-1. That gives you 1.5 mph in reverse at 700 rpm, or about 138 feet per minute. In a 6,000 lb rig. (My 62 weighs 5600 lbs with no armor and 36" swampers) you are asking too much of 132 horsepower at 3200 rpm and 200 lb/ft of torque 1600 rpm. You are going to burn that clutch up on the first good trail and hate life as you bang and clang across the rocks and beat the crap out of yourself and the rig.

On the highway, your cruise speed at 55 mph will be 3500 rpm in 3rd and 2500 rpm in 4th. That works until you try to drag 6K of rig up a 6-10% winding grade at 7-8K ft of elevation. Your going to be in 3rd gear at 3500 rpm a lot and you are going to suck as much gas as a big block chevy doing it. At 70 mph, which will feel quick in a SOA 60, you are at 4500 rpm in 3rd and 3200 rpm in 4th. If you are lucky and it's healthy, that 2f will pull you at 70 on the flats, but it will be on the floor or close to it.

With 37's, your rotating weight is heavy. Steel wheels will hurt your ability to accelerate, brake and pull hills enough that you'll notice when you swap to a set of aluminum wheels. Forget turning a set of 37" Toyo's that weigh 150lbs each mounted, look for something a little lighter unless you are o.k. with the tradeoffs. Stock brakes are going to suck. At a minimum, you'll want to upgrade to the later IFS style calipers and a good pad that has at least an FF rating so you can get enough cold pad grip to stop them. With a stick, you shouldn't be burning up the pads on downhills if you're willing to downshift and be patient. The rears are pretty good for drums.

Without sway bars, you'll miss your 100 series after the first week or so of mountain roads. With sway bars, you'll hate that the only way to get disconnects is to make them or swap to a Currie anti-rock style swaybar. You'll probably hate the factory sway bars that hang under the axle too, but the only way to get a leaf sprung 60 to flex much is with soft springs. Speaking of springs, your 2" lift springs will bring your SOA height to around 7-8" of actual lift once you do the conversion. They will also be positively arched, which helps with droop but increases your chance of inverting a shackle and bending a spring without some form of limiting device. You'll also need a traction bar of some sort, as the SOA exacerbates leaf sprung axle wrap.

Onto axles. Toy axles are limited to 5.29 gearing. That means a good crawl ratio requires a doubler or deep t-case gears, or both. Birfields are tough, under a mini truck on 37's. They aren't that tough under a 60 series with 37's, crappy gearing and abuse. We also have to discuss that rear semi-float axle. Just say no, to that right now. There are no more new aftermarket alloy shafts for the semi-float setups. You WILL break a short side shaft, right at the splines with 37's, a locker and wheelhop on a tractive surface. Digging that shaft out of an ARB rear locker may require a torch and ruin both the locker and the housing, not to mention, where are you going to find an unobtanium semi-float factory shaft on a 3-day weekend and a way to get it to the trail?

Before I make you quit the plan, go watch some youtube video's of flatfender jeeps on the Rubicon. They get it done, with small tires, armor and going slow but body damage will be the result in a wagon. They are also 1/2 the size and 1/2 the weight of a 60.. with better gearing.

Here's my recipe(s).

Lift: Lift it just enough to clear the tires. Remember, there are almost no available lift kits above the 2" range anymore without custom ordering one or finding someone that still makes them but doesn't advertise them. SOA works but has it's limitations. Stability is one of them. The Wagon Run on the Rubicon has a 60 that flops almost every year. Pretty sure, most all the flops are SOA versions.

Transmission: H-55 or H-41 swap with a granny gear low. Barring that, you can so an SM465 swap, if you can find the adapters. There are no Auto's that go behind a 2F unless you configure an FJ62 version and they really aren't worth the trouble.

T-Case: Crawl box or 4.0-1 transfercase gears, or both. Underdrive high range gears come with some of the 4-1 gearsets to help you cheat that next step.

Axles: 5.29 gears in the Yota axles, or swap to some Dana stuff and get 6.17's if you want to run the 37's. Otherwise, run a 35" tire, and gear to your liking. If you have to go 37's, then your are probably stuck with SOA. Just remember, you lose 3-4% horsepower for every 1,000 ft of elevation you gain. An engine, even a 2F, will run a lot longer at 3500 rpm in peak power at 3/4 throttle than it will at 3100 rpm lugging along on the floor and losing rpm every 1/4 mile as you climb grades.

Tires: Speaking of tires, lighter is good. Skinny works well too. A good set of 35's that actually measure 34" or so, will take you 90% of the way that 37's will take you. That extra 10% will cost you $$$. Try to keep a smaller wheel size so you can keep a good, flexy, sidewall. Airing down is the best way to make a leaf sprung rig ride like a coil sprung rig...

Engine: Add some HP and efficiency to that 2F. A good cam, mill the head to bring compression out of the 7-1 range, a header and a good carb that is jetted for power will do wonders compared to the stock motor. Otherwise ditch the stock motor. Yes, the LS platform is cool, but you don't have to, just because everyone else is doing it. A mild 350 cubic inch engine of any sort will do nicely. Remember, it's about torque at usable rpm, not peak power. A 383 with 300 hp at 4K rpm and 400 lb/ft at 2200 rpm will be much nicer than a 5.3 that peaks 330 lb/ft at 4000 rpm. If you want more, a 450+ cubic inch engine that loafs along at 1800 rpm with highway friendly axle gears will return close to the same mpg as a 2F that is screaming it's guts out. (Ask anybody that drives a school bus or a dump truck with a gas engine the difference in mpg between an old 6 cylinder and a big block... About the only difference is how long it takes you to get from one gas station to the next..)

Other factors: Don't discount wind resistance. You already know this, but leave that roof rack and rooftop tent at home. Wind resistance goes up exponentially as you go up in speed. They are also top-heavy. Fuel: You're going to need a lot of it at 10 mpg. The factory 20 gallon tank isn't enough once you are out west. Jerry cans work, but that long-range tank sure is easier than carrying 3 five gallon cans to have equivalent range.

Good luck, best wishes with your endeavor.
Wow, this was the kind of info I was looking for. I appreciate your detailed response! To answer your questions.

No, I have not driven a SOA rig.
I’m not completely set on 37’s, but I run with a 80 on slinkies and my old 100. Both on 35’s. I like technically rocky trails and the fact that I’m willing to take a full bodied rig through whatever the trail has to offer. That being said, I don’t really like or even go straight to a rock garden. I’m more about traveling from point A to Point B on the road less traveled and look for opportunities to push the envelope along the way!
A doubler does interest me, however I’m not real familiar with the cost to get one setup. Lockers are a must, which is why I was thinkyabout gears.
I’d love a motor swap, a Cummins would be the dream. A 350 would be fine also. But that day may be down the road several years and may never come. Plus, I like the fact it’s all Toyota at the moment.
I read about the semi float axle and how you can get stranded if it goes. So an 80 axle might be worth exploring for the rear. However I’m pretty easy on the skinny pedal.

If a motor and one tons are not in the immediate future, the question I’m trying to answer is how do I build a capable 60 with what I have now that would set me up for a bigger build later without redoing a bunch of work?

Maybe stay with a SUA with 3” lift and 2” body lift. Trim if needed. I still need to do gears and lockers. Maybe explore a doubler to see if it’s feasible. I’m interested in a holly sniper efi kit if it’s worthwhile. I’m still thinking 37’s just because.

My other thought would be a 80 rear end and four link it with slinkies. Then 3 link and run coil overs on the front axle. Gears lockers and again a doubler with 37’s.

Is there a 3 inch kit available? Or is it all piece milled together?

How involved is adding a doubler?
 
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
9,414
Wow, this was the kind of info I was looking for. I appreciate your detailed response! To answer your questions.

No, I have not driven a SOA rig.
I’m not completely set on 37’s, but I run with a 80 on slinkies and my old 100. Both on 35’s. I like technically rocky trails and the fact that I’m willing to take a full bodied rig through whatever the trail has to offer. That being said, I don’t really like or even go straight to a rock garden. I’m more about traveling from point A to Point B on the road less traveled and look for opportunities to push the envelope along the way!
A doubler does interest me, however I’m not real familiar with the cost to get one setup. Lockers are a must, which is why I was thinkyabout gears.
I’d love a motor swap, a Cummins would be the dream. A 350 would be fine also. But that day may be down the road several years and may never come. Plus, I like the fact it’s all Toyota at the moment.
I read about the semi float axle and how you can get stranded if it goes. So an 80 axle might be worth exploring for the rear. However I’m pretty easy on the skinny pedal.

If a motor and one tons are not in the immediate future, the question I’m trying to answer is how do I build a capable 60 with what I have now that would set me up for a bigger build later without redoing a bunch of work?

Maybe stay with a SUA with 3” lift and 2” body lift. Trim if needed. I still need to do gears and lockers. Maybe explore a doubler to see if it’s feasible. I’m interested in a holly sniper efi kit if it’s worthwhile. I’m still thinking 37’s just because.

My other thought would be a 80 rear end and four link it with slinkies. Then 3 link and run coil overs on the front axle. Gears lockers and again a doubler with 37’s.

Is there a 3 inch kit available? Or is it all piece milled together?

How involved is adding a doubler?
I think most of your major questions have been answered but you just need to start doing research, take notes, and make some decisions based on your situation, time, mechanical experience, and budget along with how you'll use the truck. A 80 series rear is a great option as well. I mentioned the 100 series axle because it is stronger. Both a 80 series and 100 series rear axle is only like 300 bucks used. If you get a wider rear axle you can widen your front axle housing to match the rear if you find a competent fabricator as another option. Not a very complicated process.
 

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