Ticking time bomb TICK TICK TICK: Spark plugs Alert Alert Alert! (1 Viewer)

[Inukshuk]

A Heli-Coil is not appropriate for this application. I wouldn't use a Heli-Coil on any application that requires a seal. Even though the seat of the spark plug does the sealing, the Heli-coil is a coil of steel not a solid threaded insert. The last 3 threads of the Time-Sert are cold rolled. When the insert bottoms out on the seat, the installer driver forces those unformed threads into the base metal, effectively locking the fastener in place. The Time-Sert can only be installed as deep as you cut the seat, whereas a Heli-Coil could be screwed into the combustion chamber.

Interesting reasoning.
Since some read these posts as "fact" I want to offer that people - professional and amateur - have successfully been helicoiling spark plug holes for decades.
YMMV

 

[2001LC]

Took out the coils and spark plugs last night from newly acquired 2004 LC with 299k miles. Boots were difficult to come out. I had to tear apart #1 but others eventually came out.
#5 spark plug came out with difficulty.
Compression tests were good across the board 170-180.
This morning, on my day off,I was to going to start on TB but decided to put a camera into #5. Then looked at the spark plugs closely and wholla. #5 came off with the insert.
I got some research to do as what kind of insert has been used and do it again. It seems like it is probably Time-Sert. This would be my fist time tackling such thing.
Any advise is appreciated.
Coils don’t look good for #5 and #7 as they are brown. Probably need some new coils and new sparks plugs even though spark plugs look fine and gap is good 1.0 (checked only couple)

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What was #5 compression?

 

[GVegasG]

What was #5 compression?

150 with only couple of threads holding the tool.

 

[2001LC]

150psi to 160psi, is what I'd guess with a time-sert. But perhaps leaking by, the few threads!


What you want to see when examining cylinders in a 100 series. Is nice clear cross hatch marks. Any area void of cross hatch marks, has been compromised.

In a 2007 w/250K with ECT at 187F, fuel pump cut off, throttle body wide open and cranking at 250RPM at 5K ft above sea level. We got:
#1-167, 3-167, 5-115, 7-175, 2-170, 4-165, 6-155, 8-170. Spec is STD 192psi. Below minimum 142PSI or 14PSI differential between cylinders, is a fail.

#5 cylinder DRY 115psi, WET 157psi. We "think" cylinders took a hit. When intake manifold remove and dust drop in intake port.

 

[GVegasG]

Thinking and researching more I think they have used OEM Tools insert and not time-sert. See the edge with have some kind of tooth to stay in place.
Has anyone used that before?
I am thinking to use use the same to not complicate this any further. Of course I will put plenty red locktite and wait a day before torquing the spark plug.

 

[Wildcat Walker]

USE THE TIME SERT, DO NOT CHEAP OUT ON THIS REPAIR!!! BUY ONCE CRY ONCE.

 

[awesomeissquid]

So I just want to say I am not sure how well drilling a second insert is going to work since one was already installed. I believe these are typically steel while the head is aluminum. I do not think their cutting tool will work well in that situation and you might have a higher risk of something breaking off and falling into the combustion chamber. Just something to think about. Maybe someone with more experience might know.

 

[2001LC]

Thinking and researching more I think they have used OEM Tools insert and not time-sert. See the edge with have some kind of tooth to stay in place.
Has anyone used that before?
I am thinking to use use the same to not complicate this any further. Of course I will put plenty red locktite and wait a day before torquing the spark plug.

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Just to be clear, I'll repeat: I don't like these installed with head on block, nor have I every used one in any head. But they can save money & time.

@GVegasG I like the idea of using same, and not needing too drilling and taping again. If you can't find a match, consider reusing that old one. It will come off if installer didn't glue it in or use anti-seize. You may then be able to use a new plug to seat it. But you'd be better-off with inserting tool to seat..

I purchase a time-sert kit, for wheel hub rotor bolt holes. They're ordered by size, type of metal going into and use. So likely can be over-size, if need be.

I seat them in backwards (seat at front of hub), so it can't un-thread or pull out.

Back side of hub, where rotor bolts on.

 

[GVegasG]

Thanks for the responses. It helps a lot.
Bought the tool from AutoZone. The long insert is a match. I am thinking perhaps they did not thread deep enough. Therefore I am thinking to run the driver 1) to clean the threads 2) to add 1-2 larger threads.
It seems bit tricky as insert has be in right - not to deep and not too out. On the other hand the rough shark bite edges will not let this go in any further.
I am thinking to use old spark plug and remove the crush washer to drive this in. However I can’t afford for the spark plug to get stuck. I am thinking to let it sit for a day before I take the spark plug out for locktite to really hold on.
Another challenge. Tap/driver requires 19mm or 3/4 socket. That size socket can not go into the spark plug hole. Thinking to take the socket and shave some to get around 24mm which is coil diameter.
The diameter of the socket is about 25.5 mm.
Another option is to shave off driver head but don’t know if that is solid or not. Seems sold piece. And advice is appreciated.
Happy Easter.

 

[awesomeissquid]

Thanks for the responses. It helps a lot.
Bought the tool from AutoZone. The long insert is a match. I am thinking perhaps they did not thread deep enough. Therefore I am thinking to run the driver 1) to clean the threads 2) to add 1-2 larger threads.
It seems bit tricky as insert has be in right - not to deep and not too out. On the other hand the rough shark bite edges will not let this go in any further.
I am thinking to use old spark plug and remove the crush washer to drive this in. However I can’t afford for the spark plug to get stuck. I am thinking to let it sit for a day before I take the spark plug out for locktite to really hold on.
Another challenge. Tap/driver requires 19mm or 3/4 socket. That size socket can not go into the spark plug hole. Thinking to take the socket and shave some to get around 24mm which is coil diameter.
The diameter of the socket is about 25.5 mm.
Another option is to shave off driver head but don’t know if that is solid or not. Seems sold piece. And advice is appreciated.
Happy Easter.

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I think you are on the right track. Based on the picture you posted in the other thread it is clearer that the thread repair did not break off inside the head like I had originally assumed. Keep us posted on how this goes.

 

[GVegasG]

I cleaned the threads twice but maybe I did not go far enough.
The new insert is in with the red locktite. I can tighten the spark plug all the way to 25ft lbs and get it back out.
One issue is that it has a lip. Either did not go deep enough or that needs to get smashed with the tool. I am afraid to tighten any further or hit hard with the tool but there is not enough room anyway. I am afraid spark plug might not be in the correct position (deep enough) in the head or perhaps does not matter.
I will wait one day or maybe few hours and do compression test. Will not fire up the car until tomorrow.
I did vacuum and blow air number of times to make sure it is all clean inside.
It is nerve racking but I will feel good if this works out. I have ordered new spark plugs from RockAuto.
One coil did not have the spring - I am puzzled how it worked.

 

[GVegasG]

Put new spark plugs Denso 4504 TT Platinum this morning. Tighten to 170 in lbs which is little more than 14. Fired up just fine. Checked for misfires with Techstream and all showing zeros.
Thanks everyone for your input and help.
Vacation was spent on fixing cars. I guess that is mid life crisis back to work tomorrow.

 

[04UZJ100]

Put new spark plugs Denso 4504 TT Platinum this morning. Tighten to 170 in lbs which is little more than 14. Fired up just fine. Checked for misfires with Techstream and all showing zeros.
Thanks everyone for your input and help.
Vacation was spent on fixing cars. I guess that is mid life crisis back to work tomorrow.

Why not OEM Iridium? 2UZ hates anything but those…..

 

[GVegasG]

Why not OEM Iridium? 2UZ hates anything but those…..

I did not know that. I have read in one of threads that experts like @2001LC used TT.
I usually use the best but was not sure how things were going to turn out in this scenario.

 

[Rhetoric]

I did not know that. I have read in one of threads that experts like @2001LC used TT.
I usually use the best but was not sure how things were going to turn out in this scenario.

I believe he used the Denso 4702 Iridium TT. At least that is what I am running in my 2UZ.

Seriously job well done on making that repair!

 

[2001LC]

Iridium, last the longest. Taken from Denso promo: "The patented formula has the highest concentration of Iridium of any spark plug and outperforms in the most severe engine temperatures resisting oxidation and voltage wear for over 100,000 miles. A member of the platinum family, iridium is the most corrosion-resistant metal known on earth."

We can use Platinum, they just don't have same long term reliability.

I use a lot of these TT:
IK20TT Denso iridium twin 0.4mm tip. Thinnest tips available, which is difficult & costly duplicated/bootleg the 0.4mm tips.

Factory uses and recommends:
SK20R11. Denso iridium standard factory used & recommended.
IFR6T11 NGK iridium replacement for the factory used & recommended IFR6A11

Iridium TT®

The unparalleled Iridium TT spark plug is tested to last well beyond 100,000 miles, with minimal loss to performance.

www.densoautoparts.com

 

[2000UZJ]

I did not know that. I have read in one of threads that experts like @2001LC used TT.
I usually use the best but was not sure how things were going to turn out in this scenario.

I think a parts list would be wildly helpful for anybody that has to deal with this in the future! I didn’t even know this was something that could happen! Now I’m scared to pull my plugs

 

[GVegasG]

Hopefully PK20TT works out but I knew the platinum would not last as long as iridium.

 

[nissanh]

Since we check the tightness of the plugs once every 2-3 years, it's best to replace the plugs since you are there, therefore, I too went with Pt twintip. I already on a set of these and nothing wrong with the Pt plugs. It wears out faster than Ir but better than Cu plugs. even Cu will be OK, since we "check" the plugs every 2-3 years.

I already ordered a set of Pt PK20TT plugs (rockauto had the best deal $2.80 a piece) because I am about to recheck the tightness!

 

[GVegasG]

Since we check the tightness of the plugs once every 2-3 years, it's best to replace the plugs since you are there, therefore, I too went with Pt twintip. I already on a set of these and nothing wrong with the Pt plugs. It wears out faster than Ir but better than Cu plugs. even Cu will be OK, since we "check" the plugs every 2-3 years.

I already ordered a set of Pt PK20TT plugs (rockauto had the best deal $2.80 a piece) because I am about to recheck the tightness!

That is exactly what I ordered from RockAuto but won’t get until a week later. So picked up some from AutoZone.
That was my thinking exactly - will look into this sooner than 100k anyway.