Ticking time bomb TICK TICK TICK: Spark plugs Alert Alert Alert! (1 Viewer)

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

Denso, Toyota, etc. recommend: When threads lubed (i.e. anti-seize, oil, grease, etc). Reduce torque by ~25%.

If anti-seize used on a spark plug. If threads then get hot gasses (loose spark plug) blow-by. The anti-seize will cook into threads, making removing plugs, very difficult.
This is true for a threaded connection that is carrying a load. In the case of a spark plug, the only reason to apply a torque is to crush the gasket or seat the seat. Only a very small amount of preload is necessary to prevent the plug from vibrating loose, compared to say a wheel stud, or head stud, that is carrying a lot of load with a high preload value. For spark plugs, you should still follow the instructions on the box, in order to achieve a proper seal. The seal is a function of the seating depth, not a torque value.

Your statement about cooking off, is completely inaccurate. And is exactly the opposite of what anti seize does on a spark plug.
 
This is true for a threaded connection that is carrying a load. In the case of a spark plug, the only reason to apply a torque is to crush the gasket or seat the seat. Only a very small amount of preload is necessary to prevent the plug from vibrating loose, compared to say a wheel stud, or head stud, that is carrying a lot of load with a high preload value. For spark plugs, you should still follow the instructions on the box, in order to achieve a proper seal. The seal is a function of the seating depth, not a torque value.

Your statement about cooking off, is completely inaccurate. And is exactly the opposite of what anti seize does on a spark plug.
Perhaps I wasn't clear or you misunderstood.

Here is a very simple test for you. Add anti-seize to a new set of spark plugs on one banks plugs, and none on other. To speed up the processes, only hand tighten plugs (sung). Drive normal. But also bring your engine to operating temp and let cool down 8 hours as often as possible (3 time every 24 hours), again this is to speed up the process. Soon you'll hear a cold start-up tick/pop, which is hot gasses passing the spark plug(s) threads. In time, tick/pop will be present even after warm-up (danger sign). Continue driving with more, heating & cooling cycles. After a good amount of run time and heating and cooling cycles. My bet: Side without anti-seize will have more loose spark plug and easy to remove. Side with anti-seize, spark plugs will be hard to remove, feeling like cross-thread in.


BTW:
I did not say "cooking OFF" as you stated!

I said: If threads then get hot gasses blow-by. The anti-seize will cook into threads, making removing plugs very difficult. Meaning if spark plugs begins to "walk out" then hot gases will pass threads, mixing with anti-seize. The combination, results spark plugs very hard to remove. Which is the opposite effect one is looking for when using anti-seize. The good part is, as the mix cooks. It also halts the waking-out. But I've had to use extreme measure to remove these anti-seized plugs. Even to the point of using penetrating oil in tube repeated run engine and cooling, 3 full tanks of gas with 44k. Where even after all that, I had to use a 3/4" breaker bar to get a plug out. I was shocked and relieved. I didn't bust the plug in the head or damage threads. Not something I want to do again.

Additionally you say "only a small amount of pre-load, is necessary to prevent the plug from vibrating loose! "Vibration" is not so much the issue we need be concerned with, in properly installed plugs. It's how many "Heating and Cool cycle" (expansion & contraction) that is of the most concern, IMHO. This why mileage is a poor indicator of spark plugs walking-out. If one drove 365 miles until shutting down engine to cool, and did so once a month for 10 years. Which would be 120 heating & cooling cycle within 36,500 miles on engine. Spark plugs would be near the same torque. But another may drive let say; 1 mile and stop, every 8 hours, 7 days a week for 10 years. This also would be 36,500 miles. But would be 10,950 heating & cooling cycles. These Denso spark plugs in a 4.7L, would be loose.

Torque is used to insure crush washer is seated properly. This is what is used by those that have a torque wrench and aren't to lazy to use it. Which insure seating properly and evenly. The "box" instruction are general for any vehicle, without use of addition special tool (torque wrench), other than spark plug wrench. Which shows 1/4 to 1/2 turn after hand sung. Not as accurate at seating with a torque wrench.

Dig into Toyota FSM or Denso web page. You'll find torque specs also. Additional Toyota School and Denso web page. Has indications and notes, about reducing torque when threads lubed. Which I've posted in this thread.
 
Last edited:
Whoa !! I’ve been living under a rock! I didnt know people used a torque wrench for spark plugs.. I been using the good n tight feel on every engine I’ve worked on over the last ~25 years give or take. I remember my dad doing it the same way back in the day… muscle memory.

Those were the good ole days ….
 
In those days Iron heads mated to iron blocks - you could do that

2UZFE iron block to aluminum heads- dissimilar heat dissipation properties - torque wrench is a good idea for an accurate install
 
When I did the aprk plugs, I just used my known musle power and felt enough: whola.. I had all 8 pligs slightly below 20 ft-lb, I never use torque wrench on engine oil drain and gear fill drain bolts: just the muscle power.. so far so good.
 
Hand sung and than turn 1/4 to 1/2 new spark plugs, has long been used. It fine!

But the 18ft-lbf I've suggest, which is 5ft-lbf above Toyota engineers recommendation of 13ft-lbf. Was based on a few things:
1) Denso chart of torque specs for spark plugs.
2) Use of torque wrench. Where I'd feel a steadily increasing in pull, up to about 17ft-lbf. Than suddenly the pull lightened as reading on wrenched drop back. Then it picked back up again, firming at 18ft-lbf. Feeling like a stop!
3) Reason for going higher than 13ft-lbf in the FSM. Is to see if it would give us more time, until walk-out.
4) Which giving a spec, rather than feel. Makes future recommendation based on long term results, more useful.

Personally. I've several thousands dollars worth of torque wrench and I use them 7 days a week.
I've 1/4", 3/8" & 1/2" digital. With one 3/4" drive, a clicker. In addition to using on every bolt & nut, on a 100 & 200 series (with few exception). I mark them with paint, once I've torqued.

Once I saw a post here in mud. Saying the "mechanic's in his shop, don't use a torque wrench, ever. As it just takes to much time" Unfortunately this is typical, of most shops. 98% of Shop mechanic, are falt-rate. They do all they can to cut corners, saving time.

Poster went on to say. He's "never busted a bolt, and never uses a torque wrench."

Busting the nuts and bolts, are not actually why we have torque specs. Although the spec insure we don't bust them. The spec insure uniformity, proper clamping force and takes into consideration expansion.
 
Last edited:
Does anyone have a time sert kit with spare inserts (M14x1.25) that they are able to part with?
Gonna have a go at repairing the spark plug hole.

(Check your plugs early and often….)
 
I think the issue is the 13 ft-lb torque. I never ever had this issue with any other toyota because I hand tight until I feel it is tight enough, usually I hit 18-20 ft-lb. torque numbers are good for certain aplications. I use torque when tightening the wheels as that can prevent premature rotor warpage.
 
Just popping in here to say I found a few that were only reading about 7ft-lb on my torque adapter. Tightened everything down (new plugs are on my eventual list of to-dos) and fired it up after having sat over 24 hours and guess what -

NO TICKING SOUND ANYMORE

I do have a few coils that have the plastic split down the middle so I probably need new coils and plugs in the not so distant future. Based on service history they may be original.
 
Just did a spark plug change and coil boot replacement on my 06. PO had no record of the change so it moved to the top of the list after reading this thread.

Overall, my plugs were nice and snug except for Cyl 4. I pulled the coil and it was noticeably dirtier than the other ones and appeared to have seen some heat. Not to my surprise, the plug came out without using a wrench.

The rest of the replacement went smoothly, new Denso plugs torqued to 18 lb-ft and coil boots replaced. The slight tick I had (or at least thought I had) heard is gone. It's never a bad idea to just check the torque/condition of the coils!
 
Friends…Following up to earlier posts… I tried installing the time-sert..it has not gone well so far.

While tapping, the cutting portion of the step tap bottomed out of the threads in my zeal to ensure I was sufficiently below the seat, and I have not been able to pull it back out yet. Luckily the top of the tap extends out, so I don't believe the bottom of the tap is touching anything below.

I ordered a few long needle nose pliers, but they turned out to be too large to adeptly grasp the top of the tap and pull upward and back into the threads for extraction (and eventually, seat cutting and insert insertion).. I am waiting on a few new pliers that I hope will work. Fingers crossed.

Will welcome ANY AND ALL suggestions!

(I took the task on myself to get more hands-on with my vehicles.. not regretting it completely but… yeeesh).
 
Friends…Following up to earlier posts… I tried installing the time-sert..it has not gone well so far.

While tapping, the cutting portion of the step tap bottomed out of the threads in my zeal to ensure I was sufficiently below the seat, and I have not been able to pull it back out yet. Luckily the top of the tap extends out, so I don't believe the bottom of the tap is touching anything below.

I ordered a few long needle nose pliers, but they turned out to be too large to adeptly grasp the top of the tap and pull upward and back into the threads for extraction (and eventually, seat cutting and insert insertion).. I am waiting on a few new pliers that I hope will work. Fingers crossed.

Will welcome ANY AND ALL suggestions!

(I took the task on myself to get more hands-on with my vehicles.. not regretting it completely but… yeeesh).
Not sure how hard it is to remove but I'd imagine it is. Maybe look into some hemostatic forceps to really get in there? Hope you get everything squared away without too much heartache!
 
Friends…Following up to earlier posts… I tried installing the time-sert..it has not gone well so far.

While tapping, the cutting portion of the step tap bottomed out of the threads in my zeal to ensure I was sufficiently below the seat, and I have not been able to pull it back out yet. Luckily the top of the tap extends out, so I don't believe the bottom of the tap is touching anything below.

I ordered a few long needle nose pliers, but they turned out to be too large to adeptly grasp the top of the tap and pull upward and back into the threads for extraction (and eventually, seat cutting and insert insertion).. I am waiting on a few new pliers that I hope will work. Fingers crossed.

Will welcome ANY AND ALL suggestions!

(I took the task on myself to get more hands-on with my vehicles.. not regretting it completely but… yeeesh).
So the tap got threaded in past the bottom and basically fell into the cylinder? Might have to start considering pulling the head as a last resort. Maybe you can get a pair of hemostats like @FSAuto suggested to get a good grip.
 
Friends…Following up to earlier posts… I tried installing the time-sert..it has not gone well so far.

While tapping, the cutting portion of the step tap bottomed out of the threads in my zeal to ensure I was sufficiently below the seat, and I have not been able to pull it back out yet. Luckily the top of the tap extends out, so I don't believe the bottom of the tap is touching anything below.

I ordered a few long needle nose pliers, but they turned out to be too large to adeptly grasp the top of the tap and pull upward and back into the threads for extraction (and eventually, seat cutting and insert insertion).. I am waiting on a few new pliers that I hope will work. Fingers crossed.

Will welcome ANY AND ALL suggestions!

(I took the task on myself to get more hands-on with my vehicles.. not regretting it completely but… yeeesh).
Pictures?
 
I have talked to ajlx470 and suggested following options:
1. Try to find a flexible tube that can fit into the spark plug hole and can slide onto a tap tool.
2. Insert small round magnet into the socket and try to turn the tap back out.
I was doing a compression test after putting back the insert and end of the compression tool got stuck there because I did not tighten them together. Magnet did not for me since the piece was not steel but I think tap must be steel.
Hopefully one of those helps out but I know it won’t be easy.
 
Friends…Following up to earlier posts… I tried installing the time-sert..it has not gone well so far.

While tapping, the cutting portion of the step tap bottomed out of the threads in my zeal to ensure I was sufficiently below the seat, and I have not been able to pull it back out yet. Luckily the top of the tap extends out, so I don't believe the bottom of the tap is touching anything below.

I ordered a few long needle nose pliers, but they turned out to be too large to adeptly grasp the top of the tap and pull upward and back into the threads for extraction (and eventually, seat cutting and insert insertion).. I am waiting on a few new pliers that I hope will work. Fingers crossed.

Will welcome ANY AND ALL suggestions!

(I took the task on myself to get more hands-on with my vehicles.. not regretting it completely but… yeeesh).
Alrighty… got the tap out. Proceeding with install.

However… I see this using a camera.

Any insights as to what this may affect?


Thanks VERY much to @GVegasG for all his tips and being open for troubleshooting. you rock.

44C555B6-5331-4D39-A57B-935FE7C879B8.jpeg


588637DE-3AAC-461A-B282-5DCB2EB58B04.jpeg


369D105F-D551-4613-B488-4A2C0ABA2066.jpeg
 
Alrighty… got the tap out. Proceeding with install.

However… I see this using a camera.

Any insights as to what this may affect?


Thanks VERY much to @GVegasG for all his tips and being open for troubleshooting. you rock.

View attachment 3332872

View attachment 3332873

View attachment 3332874
A little hard to tell from the pictures. Are we looking at the spark plug hole into the combustion chamber? If so, can you insert the camera into the spark plug hole and try taking a new picture?
 
A little hard to tell from the pictures. Are we looking at the spark plug hole into the combustion chamber? If so, can you insert the camera into the spark plug hole and try taking a new picture?
Yes, that is what you are looking at. Unfortunately the camera is too large to fit into the spark plug hole so I cannot get better visibility than this.
 
Yes, that is what you are looking at. Unfortunately the camera is too large to fit into the spark plug hole so I cannot get better visibility than this.
Update:

Time sert has been installed. Rig started up. Made some funny noises but runs great. Will do a compression test this week and will get back with numbers.

Anyone needing time sert assistance in the future - hope you don’t need it but glad to help!

Thanks again GVegasG ❤️
 
so, great public awareness messaging in this thread, just replaced plugs with iridium, and decided two of the coils were cracked, brown enough to replace... engine never threw codes at me and ran normally before replacement, 340K mi on the ticker. I think the iridiums that came out were NOT original as they were assembled in USA...
Heres the question I have however, when replacing the coil boots, there is a contact spring that needs to be seated ( the new ones come pre assembled, but the existing ones that I replaced boots on need spring to be reseated...). what the trick to seating when replacing that spring?
messages_0 (15).jpeg
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom