Thoughts on long single swing out (1 Viewer)

[jcardona1]

Does anybody know what OD and wall thickness tubing guys are running on there ladders ? I really like this ladder design, I believe from Slee.

Not sure what Luke sells but it's really thin gauge stuff. Your typical .120" wall is overkill for a ladder IMO.

 

[half k cruiser]

Not sure what Luke sells but it's really thin gauge stuff. Your typical .120" wall is overkill for a ladder IMO.

My thought was just buying a length of one OD and wall thickness and using it for both ladder frame, rungs, and tire carrier.

 

[LFD2037]

My thought was just buying a length of one OD and wall thickness and using it for both ladder frame, rungs, and tire carrier.

Me too. From what I've researched, either 1 1/2 or 3/4 will be fine. I'll go with whichever the guy with the tubing bender needs. If I go 1.5" I'll go a tad thicker.
As far as the ladder you were describing earlier, I don't quite get what you're saying.

 

[half k cruiser]

Me too. From what I've researched, either 1 1/2 or 3/4 will be fine. I'll go with whichever the guy with the tubing bender needs. If I go 1.5" I'll go a tad thicker.
As far as the ladder you were describing earlier, I don't quite get what you're saying.

Rather than having the ladder run so tight to the rear lift gate, you basically bump it out at the bottom and leave yourself enough room to slip a rotopax back behind it. This way you could keep the rotopax between the ladder and the body of the vehicle and still be able to hang a basket from the back to throw your cooler in.

 

[half k cruiser]

I'm also wondering about how much shear load will be on the single spindle. Keeping the tire on the spindle side would definitely help, but I wonder if it would flex the bumper at all when you swing it out fully loaded ? I'm also wondering if a strut is really necessary for opening ? I notice most people are running them, but I would think you could get away with no strut and having a latch pin to keep it open.

 

[inkpot]

If you park it with the spindle uphill that big , long, fully loaded single arm Will get mighty heavy, and doing it one-handed so you can lock the pin will be fun. Two arm is a bunch better if your really going to have a ton of stuff back there.

 

[LFD2037]

I see what you're saying about the ladder now. I have zero interest in a rotopax or carrying anything more than the ladder and spare on it except maybe an axe and/or HiLift. People have said the weak link becomes the actual bumper shell flexing. Like inkpot said, I wouldn't want to be one handing it, especially without the strut assistance.

 

[ALX4X4]

I just chopped up my Kaymer wheel holder to hold a bigger tyre and added my own JC holder. Works well. My van has a long draw bar so I can both set it up still attached to the car and open the wheel holder at the same time, one handle becuase Im lazy.

 

[lcwizard]

I had a single swing out on my 55 with a ladder and tire. Only real issues were when the Destacos would break, which happened twice in about six years ( 2000 lb destacos ). I had my spindle on the driver's side. Both times I became aware of the breakage when oncoming traffic started pulling off the road. My swing migrated open into traffic. Kind of a shock when you look in you side mirror and all you see is your tire and ladder.
I don't use Destaco any more but if I did I'd use the 4000 lb latch or better like Luke does. the 4000lb and 7500lb latches are recognizable by their
cast bolt plate rather than the two bent angle plates

2000 lb

4000 lb

7500 lb

 

[half k cruiser]

@ALX4X4 thats a pretty serious looking spindle coming up from the PS.

@inkpot why not use one of the spring assisted pins ? That way once your fully open it will just drop down into its hole and set itself, or are you talking about when your closing it. I've also been thinking about using a hitch pin for locking it closed as well. Rather than using the standard de sta co style latches. It would require a square receiving socket for the swing arm end to mate with, then holes through the vertical portion of the arm and the horizontal portion of the socket.

@lcwizard thank you for sharing that experience, I will write the 2k lb and under destacos off my list !

 

[ALX4X4]

@ALX4X4 thats a pretty serious looking spindle coming up from the PS.

That would be drivers side in Aus Kaymar put it there so you can buy one of their JC or spare wheel holders, but then it's 2 handles and about $600 for their swing out. Mine cost $75 for the JC holder and about $50 in steel plus a few bucks to the welding shop down the road.
And I keep it as one handle. Looks like there's lots of different ideas here though. I had a fold down table on the back of my last set up that was similar to this, just haven't bothered with it on this one.

 

[SUMMIT CRUISERS Jr]

I had a single swing out on my 55 with a ladder and tire. Only real issues were when the Destacos would break, which happened twice in about six years ( 2000 lb destacos ). I had my spindle on the driver's side. Both times I became aware of the breakage when oncoming traffic started pulling off the road. My swing migrated open into traffic. Kind of a shock when you look in you side mirror and all you see is your tire and ladder.
I don't use Destaco any more but if I did I'd use the 4000 lb latch or better like Luke does. the 4000lb and 7500lb latches are recognizable by their
cast bolt plate rather than the two bent angle plates

2000 lb

4000 lb

7500 lb

Where did the 2000 pound latches break? I have two, one for each swing out, but they don't have that second locking lever deal. It's just the basic latch.

 

[lcwizard]

Where did the 2000 pound latches break? I have two, one for each swing out, but they don't have that second locking lever deal. It's just the basic latch.

The threaded area of the u-bolt. The 2000 has 5/16 or 8mm threads. The 4000 uses 3/8/10mm and the 7500 uses 1/2"/12mm.
I think that all Destacos are metric threads now so the 8,10 and 12 apply. I think with a lot of wheeling they just fatigue and eventually snap.
These were never meant to be latches for this application. They were designed to hold down parts on a fixture table or a mill. On a flat smooth highway with no jarring or oscillation you could probably get by with a 200 lb clamp. Outside of Kaymar, which uses a Destaco style on hyper steroids, everyone , including myself use a fixture clamp of some kind. Either DeStaco, Carr Lane, Jergens, Gilbralter , Valtra, etc.
It's more economical than investing in a custom design. Kaymar manufactures about 25 bumpers a day. That kind of volume allows them to build their own everything. They have two or three in house laser tables ( I haven't talked to Rod in a year or so ) Their latest is fully automated with a plate feeder and parts conveyor that can run 24 hours. If there's a jam or error it sends a message to Rod's call phone so he can get out of bed
in the middle of the night and run to the shop to see what's up. Most of us fabrication shops in the US do 25 wagon bumpers a year, the busy ones, 50?

 

[Corbet]

This ladder was bent up in my shop. It's 1.5" tubing. I don't recall if it's .120 wall of if we used left over .250 from his sliders. Mine is similar but contours the rear even more. That's a aluminum marine propane tank slid into a piece of gas pipe to protect it.

As far as a single swing out. If you tow anything I doubt you'll be able to get it open with a trailer connected. Especially with a 4x4 Labs bumper, As close as Luke's bumper tucks up under the truck it moves your tow ball that much closer too. I can barely open my dual swings. Plus I ended up extending the camper so my spare tire wouldn't hit the propane tanks during right hand turns.

With all that said I don't avoid opening up the back? Yes it's a couple more steps but with the gas struts is still a one hand operation.

 

[Corbet]

Pics of mine. 1.5" .120 wall. Square steps.

 

[DKBrulles]

I just built a rear bumper with a single swing out arm. At first I was doing some super technical and detailed designs and drawings and getting all fancy, till the fabricator at our shop said most people overdesign their stuff and just use 1/8" sheet and whatever you can find out of the scrap metal pile. So I did, and it works fine, and it cost 40 bucks.

 

[Corbet]

I wish I had access to that kind of scrap pile....

 

[nakman]

... which allows me to just barely open both swingouts without hitting my trailer.

that's worth repeating. If you ever pull a trailer, you'll quickly develop a new attitude towards the swing-out. One long one all but guarantees you're not getting into the back, until you unhook the trailer. which when you're pulling the camper, then stop for food, then want to fill the fridge, really blows.

 

[LFD2037]

I just built a rear bumper with a single swing out arm. At first I was doing some super technical and detailed designs and drawings and getting all fancy, till the fabricator at our shop said most people overdesign their stuff and just use 1/8" sheet and whatever you can find out of the scrap metal pile. So I did, and it works fine, and it cost 40 bucks.

No way I'd be happy with 1/8" sheet. But then again, it'd only be $40 to make another one!

 

[LFD2037]

that's worth repeating. If you ever pull a trailer, you'll quickly develop a new attitude towards the swing-out. One long one all but guarantees you're not getting into the back, until you unhook the trailer. which when you're pulling the camper, then stop for food, then want to fill the fridge, really blows.

I pull an off road trailer but the tongue is 4' long so I should be fine.............. I hope.