Theorycraft - V8 swap on an EXTREME Budget

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I had a coil go out on my Chevy 5.3L in a very small town in Texas and the local autoparts store had one sitting on the shelf. Def confirmed in part why I swapped to the engine
 
Yeah I know.... as much as the Toyota Elitist cringes at the thought of such blasphemy it is quite practical. Hoping to setup a time soon where I can go take a look at Ed (@cruiser enthusier) as he did pretty much what I wanted.

Honestly the part that I am most bummed about is the extra cost it seems like it will like add if I want to keep it a M/T instead of just going with the auto. I have seen 4L60s all over for an average cost of about $800-$1000 whereas the NV4500 I have not found cheaper than $1k used and a reman'd starts at about $1400. Then add the cost of the clutch kit and everything and I am in over $2k just to keep it manual...
 
gregnash said:
Honestly the part that I am most bummed about is the extra cost it seems like it will like add if I want to keep it a M/T instead of just going with the auto. I have seen 4L60s all over for an average cost of about $800-$1000 whereas the NV4500 I have not found cheaper than $1k used and a reman'd starts at about $1400. Then add the cost of the clutch kit and everything and I am in over $2k just to keep it manual...
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I had an H55F on my 2F and drove that combo over 50k miles....it's all preference but these days I have no regrets going auto with the 4L65E. It's a small touch but the Lokar shifter I have feels a manual when you rest your paw on it.
 
gregnash said:
Yeah I know.... as much as the Toyota Elitist cringes at the thought of such blasphemy it is quite practical. Hoping to setup a time soon where I can go take a look at Ed (@cruiser enthusier) as he did pretty much what I wanted.

Honestly the part that I am most bummed about is the extra cost it seems like it will like add if I want to keep it a M/T instead of just going with the auto. I have seen 4L60s all over for an average cost of about $800-$1000 whereas the NV4500 I have not found cheaper than $1k used and a reman'd starts at about $1400. Then add the cost of the clutch kit and everything and I am in over $2k just to keep it manual...
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see Post # 7...

strike a path to your solution and move on.... Every choice has some trade-offs. As noted there are some well documented threads showing the solution as suggested on Post #7. Its your choice.... If $$ is your driver on every choice...this is going to be a very long thread, nothing wrong with having a budget but to make trade-offs purely on $$...then a swap may not be where you need to go. What allowances or budget have you decided on for labor or install costs? I would suggest you don't marry a manual 4 speed with a V8, that's going to be a waste of time and the results for on the road driving will disappoint.

Might be well served to make your call...and start buying parts...as I noted in another post...another user was talking about selling off some equipment...

I don't listen to those who sing the song that only toyota makes good engines or transmissions....because that's absolutely wrong. THere will be all kinds of ideas from left to right field.... if you want to do a swap its worth planning out the parts / solution that makes things work the first time and where you don't have to go back into the modifications later on. I would have done some things differently on my truck in hindsight but I was "green" to land cruisers when I did my swap and not that I'm an expert now, but I have more oif a personal experience to judge from now that I've seen what others have done and what works well. Integration of the parts, ease of installation, form/fit/function, known solutions, known combinations...etc out-weigh endless choices on transmissions and engine and transfer case combinations. I would budget for known 100% solutions and if it took you some time to acquire those parts...then...time well spent.
 
So that said Elbert... and I have asked this on mud before to no avail: What it the most off-the-shelf/packaged path to a v8 swap into... a 40... a 60... whatever?

There MUST be a path that has proven to have the highest likelihood of having all of the "issues" solved.

Ideally (maybe foolishly) I was looking for an instruction "kit": "Source THIS ENGINE EXACTLY, this transmission, these headers, this master cylinder etc etc" I KNOW that that solution will not be for everyone BUT I think there would be a good number of people that would be FINE with following a well trodden path rather than staring down the rabbit hole into the scary darkness of "you will have a lot of issues to work out"... I know Downey had a book (and I have a copy) but it is somewhat outdated and still is not a single path to getting it done, close but not quite there.
 
woytovich said:
So that said Elbert... and I have asked this on mud before to no avail: What it the most off-the-shelf/packaged path to a v8 swap into... a 40... a 60... whatever?

There MUST be a path that has proven to have the highest likelihood of having all of the "issues" solved.

Ideally (maybe foolishly) I was looking for an instruction "kit": "Source THIS ENGINE EXACTLY, this transmission, these headers, this master cylinder etc etc" I KNOW that that solution will not be for everyone BUT I think there would be a good number of people that would be FINE with following a well trodden path rather than staring down the rabbit hole into the scary darkness of "you will have a lot of issues to work out"... I know Downey had a book (and I have a copy) but it is somewhat outdated and still is not a single path to getting it done, close but not quite there.
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I'm not the expert but here is my view...(see post #7 to this thread). The bullet proof GM V8 swap is this....in my view, based on reading and looking at this over time and looking at what's been done. Again I'm not the expert but here is my view. (1) a modern 5.3 or 6.0 GM SBC, (2) a matching GM 4l60E or 4L80E automatic transmission (3) The stock FJ60 split transfer case (4) the appropriate AA adapter to mate the GM transmission with the Toyota transfer case (5) Custom radiator fan shroud (6) Toyota or aftermarket 4 row radiator. Other drivetrain components can remain stock. Pick your poison on Standalone engine harness and ECM/PCM programming. Will potentially require relocation of the cross-member that supports the transmission mount, will require some welding/fabrication on the engine mounts (some used AA mounts like I have...with no issues).

Will potentially require modification to length on front and rear driveshaft.

I'm not a big fan of the mark's adapter (for manual transmission adaption) but that is an option (I have one)., I think the adapter between the gm transmission and the toyota transfer case makes for a better choice ...of course with that you are running a GM auto transmission.

See this thread...for a similar approach to what I describe with details.....Cam's FJ60 is Gittin' a Heart Transplant this is one of the most recent threads listing what was done and providing most of the details on approach.

It was referenced in this thread somewhere but I did not go back and look where I noted it (see post # 8 to this thread). No need to change master cylinder or brake setup unless you want to. I would run GM manifolds over headers.

Look at swaps that Georg at valley hybrids has done, consider what the shop ACC has done..among others. Go read Cam's entire thread from start to finish....


Edit...add to the mix...its my belief you should run the GM fan clutch and fan from the GM donor vehicle or something similar. I run the GM fan and fan clutch that match the h the year model of my engine 1999, Gm typically runs the same cooling in the half ton pickups and suvs and 3/4 ton trucks and even in some of the 1 tons...the difference between the vehicles is the size of the radiator. Generally the water pump, the fan and fan clutch are the same on these 5.7 vortec powered trucks/suvs.
 
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What dont you like about the Marks adapter to a Toyota manual?
 
If you are REALLY trying to do it on the cheap but still have have a reliable platform, also less difficult swap... here are my thoughts:

GM goodwrench crate 350 w/ carb rebuilt & tuned 700r4
AA adapter to stock split case
4.11's
 
woytovich said:
What dont you like about the Marks adapter to a Toyota manual?
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the like part is that it allows one to run a Toyota manual transmission if they so choose...i have the Toyota 5 speed, so back then I went with the Toyota 5 speed. The other plus is the marks allows all stock drive-train setup as far as mount locations and driveshaft length. I think the OD options are better in the GM transmissions....and of course you are talking about V8 power to drive that.

The part I don't care for in the marks is the setup and the way it functions. It does work, my preference (now ...based on experience) is that my preference for any type of adapter would be between the transmission and the transfercase, not between the engine and the transmission.

AA makes a product called the ranger torque splitter which is basically (my view) a hi-low range box that sits between the gm engine and toyota transmission (or other transmissions ...see details on AA website). low range being direct or whatever you gearing is...high range on the ranger is 27% over drive as I recall...which would be great for pavement. As I recall the ranger allows similar placement of the SBC engine as the marks adapter. You'll have to verify.

I don't care for the engine being so close to the radiator...but the marks does live up to its claim of stock placement. You don't have to move the radiator or other mounts and you don't have to alter the drive shafts. I'm just not a fan of the Mark's even though it does allow me to run what I have with fewer other mods (at the time this was why I went that route).

I don't care for the setup and design of the mark's...again my personal preference. Back when I bought mine..the instructions were garbage...

If you want to run the toyota manual behind your gm v8 then I think your options are the Marks adapter or ranger torque splitter. I've never seen or driven a truck with the ranger...I would be concerned about the noise level of the ranger box during operation....
 
New Heart Same Soul

and another.... good reading... I know there are few other engine swap threads dealing with the 5.3....search using "engine swap"...

learn from what these guys have gone through....and others.
 
As a little bit of a purist I like the idea of keeping as much of the character of the Toyota as possible... thus GM engine to Toyota transmission and everything else makes me happier in theory.
 
don't get stuck on the brand name.... I hear that a lot. If you entertain an engine swap...it seems like you have to bring some focus to your intent. Do you want the drive-line to remain stock and if so why, do you want the front and rear axle assemblies to remain stock, etc...etc.

moving into the fuel injection world is a big plus but also brings additional complexity.

Go look at the marks adapter and see what is required...then go look at the aa adpter that mates the gm transmission to the toyota transfercase...
then go look at what you have to do for the installs...what systems impact what, if you run this can you run that. Back to ease of use...the modern GM auto transmissions are proven performers... what exhaust are your forced to run with a marks setup vs a gm auto, what issues are there with the clutch slave and how does it cause exhaust clearance....

whats the negative to the GM auto transmission? in my view few... the only thing I consider negative about the auto-transmission in offroad is the ability to control your speed/movement on a downhill slope or descent, and the need to have another cooler in the truck for auto transmission.

the plus on the manual transmission ....helps control speed in descent and no need for additional cooler. Does impact exhaust manifold choices, does require an adapter between the engine and the transmission, which can impact shifting/feel.

the plus on the auto transmission is its operation, its ability to hill climb and overall smooth performance, in fact I think it makes things eaiser offroad in many cases. torque converter really makes slow hill climbs easy as far as managing power to the tires. Also requires less gear in the axles for the same output.

People get spun up about the brand name biz....but they have aftermarket stuff all over their trucks, and then have diesels (non-toyota), then transplant 14 bolt or other HD axle assemblies, aftermarket transfer cases...etc, lockers..etc what I'm saying is these are good things...not bad...don't get hung up on trying to stay toyota.....you just made a choice to go with a GM engine....understand what can be positive enhancer to that choice and don't have tunnel vision on Toyota parts.

if you run the aa adpater between the auto trans and the toyota transfercase....another plus is tha you don't have to split the case to remove it (as I recall from reading through these threads and web sites)

I understand its your $$ and you'll make the choices best for you....there is some reason that you have decided the 2f is out...maybe its time to consider what the total combination of parts you'll end up should look like with proven solutions outside of Toyota.

I think one lesson I've learned is to better understand what I want to do with the truck before I jump off into something, because I've learned that over time I've spent $$$ twice or sometimes threes times over what I might have done if I had modified the truck in a more hard core way to start with. Back to form/fit/function and when you start talking hybrids...it gets fun...especially if you are going to have to pay someone to do this or pay someone to fix it later.

I'm just pointing out that I think mods are great and I think personally that the 6.0 / 5.3 SBC married to a GM auto transmission is close to perfection for swapping into a 60, and then use the stock split case and the aa transmission to transfer case adapter.
 
1. All of the "what" this and "what" that that you mention at the top of your last post is EXACTLY the stuff that I would love to see documented in a "how-to" for some specific conversion. As I said, that conversion will not be what everyone wants but with that documentation lots of people would do that conversion when they might be daunted by the "what ifs" otherwise.

2. As a sort of purist I understand the slippery slope of non-Toyota parts - and I have my share. In this case my goal would be preserving the CHARACTER of the truck... the more you add the less it feels/drives like an FJ60 and the more it feels/drives like a GM truck. None of that is bad if that is what you want... but at some point you need to stop calling it a Toyota: Vortec, GM auto, Orion TC, Dana axles... all that is left is the sheetmetal... I think swapping the engine and keeping the trans/TC/axles keeps it Toyota enough FOR ME.
 
The #j60 will never feel like a (newer gen.) GM truck. In my mind and experience, the character is preserved by the live axles, leaf springs, cockpit feel, and body style. Although in some regards the vortec will outshine the rest of the vehicle... it works beautifully and is a great combination if you ask me.
 
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