The things that fail and how they changed 100 vs. 200

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I was always impressed by the size and girth :D of many 100 Series parts compared to their earlier counterparts. Of course weight also increased along with horsepower/torque so it was a given that things needed to improve. Minor stuff like 29 spline flanges, 32 spline shafts, massive CV's and ball-joints, etc. I've replace about everything in that realm on 100's over the years, either my own and/or customers and while we are not a full-time service shop, we still do plenty of installs and supply parts for customers all over the globe working out these issues.

Fast forward to the 200 and it's a whole new platform, different suspension, very different drive train and much more hp/torque and often weight thus we are right back to learning the things that are going to fail. The Canguro Racing 200 has been an absolute rock solid test platform, it is seeing absolute punishment and we do a post-race tear down and inspect everything, bushings, links, steering, leak down, trans pressure, ring and pinions, shocks, frame, etc. I think the failures we see in 1000 miles are going to be the things we see fail on off-roaded 200's during the course of their service life as well.

So, where am I going with this? As we (Cruiser Outfitters hat here) start stocking more and more 200 specific parts I find it really interesting to place them side by side with their 100 Series counterparts just to illustrate the improvements and I think to be fair in some cases un-improvements.

Lower Ball-Joints. They can and do fail, fortunately they generally give you ample notice (play) for a long time before they do fail. Would I want to do one on the trail? Nope... but I have. I've carried a spare LBJ/UBJ in my 100 for years and will do so in the 200.

100 vs 200 LBJ

LBJ.jpg


Now to be fair the size is a bit deceiving as the 200 one is mostly the same at critical dimensions such as shank size, thread, the length is just much taller. But they feel bigger :D
 
My buddy who has a 4th gen 4runner V8 (great truck btw) was marveling at how beefy everything was on my 200 last summer on a trail during lunch. He pointed at the tie rods and said "wow those CVs look overbuilt!". When I said they were the tie rods he nearly fell over in disbelief :lol:
 
My buddy who has a 4th gen 4runner V8 (great truck btw) was marveling at how beefy everything was on my 200 last summer on a trail during lunch. He pointed at the tie rods and said "wow those CVs look overbuilt!". When I said they were the tie rods he nearly fell over in disbelief :lol:

Hahaha, that is funny. The 200 (&100) CV's are massive. We spin 37" tires at angles that borderline on damaging our front diff and they have held up amazingly.
 
Great thread Idea. How about the frame strength and build differences you see between 100 series and 200 series?

The 200 is definitely bigger. I posted the numbers in an earlier thread (perhaps my 200 build thread?) but I'll snap some pics and numbers.
 
Interesting take hearing all that Kurt. I have wondered about some of those things but haven't been in a position to see it first hand like you have as the platform evolved. Cool to hear......
 
I can certainly say how f'in big the CVs are on the 100 when compared to the Yukon/Silverado1500s/Tahoes from 02 till now. The CVs on the 100s belong on a minibus!
 
Oh I know right! Love how big these CVs are.

I’ve actually never blown a CV so I won’t ever be carrying one while wheeling. That and replacing a CV on trail requires too much stuff for my tastes. I would just plan on cutting away what I need, running it in three wheel drive off the trail, and getting to a shop.
 
Oh I know right! Love how big these CVs are.

I’ve actually never blown a CV so I won’t ever be carrying one while wheeling. That and replacing a CV on trail requires too much stuff for my tastes. I would just plan on cutting away what I need, running it in three wheel drive off the trail, and getting to a shop.

I agree but after having one snap in Moab I'm paranoid. There may have been other circumstances but still, for $200 I'll have into my spare, during heavy crawling (or long) trips, I'll carry an extra. For a weekend, nope.

The 200 CV is really monumental vs other indie front end rigs I've dealt with. Anyone that's pulled one apart will appreciate the tooling, tolerances and material.
 
I agree but after having one snap in Moab I'm paranoid. There may have been other circumstances but still, for $200 I'll have into my spare, during heavy crawling (or long) trips, I'll carry an extra. For a weekend, nope.

The 200 CV is really monumental vs other indie front end rigs I've dealt with. Anyone that's pulled one apart will appreciate the tooling, tolerances and material.

Wasn't that an after-market CV that broke on TexAZ?
 
I agree but after having one snap in Moab I'm paranoid. There may have been other circumstances but still, for $200 I'll have into my spare, during heavy crawling (or long) trips, I'll carry an extra. For a weekend, nope.

The 200 CV is really monumental vs other indie front end rigs I've dealt with. Anyone that's pulled one apart will appreciate the tooling, tolerances and material.
Yeah, I'm with you on carrying what you feel is right for your truck. Just bring a way to catch the gear oil and enough to fill it back up. Also need to have a new hub nut and a big ass breaker bar.

While I’ve never blown a CV, I've blown over five 1/2” snap-on breaker bars on hub nuts. That’s why I use a 3/4” drive on those now. That and enough penetrating lubricants to break the spines off the outer bearings.

I’m sure Kurt can give his recommendations, and I know you know all this stuff Tony.

I just don't want someone kinda new to read this and be like “okay, I’ll carry a spare CV.” And not have the tools, jacks/supports, replacing parts outside of the CV itself, and the fluids plus oil catch to do it right for both the truck and the environment.
 
Wasn't that an after-market CV that broke on TexAZ?

I think it was a Napa part? Also it was a Tundra part. Patrick can chime in on that.

Yeah, I'm with you on carrying what you feel is right for your truck. Just bring a way to catch the gear oil and enough to fill it back up. Also need to have a new hub nut and a big ass breaker bar.

While I’ve never blown a CV, I've blown over five 1/2” snap-on breaker bars on hub nuts. That’s why I use a 3/4” drive on those now. That and enough penetrating lubricants to break the spines off the outer bearings.

I’m sure Kurt can give his recommendations, and I know you know all this stuff Tony.

I just don't want someone kinda new to read this and be like “okay, I’ll carry a spare CV.” And not have the tools, jacks/supports, replacing parts outside of the CV itself, and the fluids plus oil catch to do it right for both the truck and the environment.

Oh for sure, carrying a CV is only a portion of the battle. My Milwaukee M18 1/2" zipped off the axle nut with ease but if you don't have one, that'll be a whore to get off on the trail. You'll probably need an inner CV puller (slide hammer) too as those can be a bitch to remove.

That said, there are many things I would carry ahead of a spare CV if space is limited.
 
Toyota CV's don't fail... I mean sure they can fail but it is soooo rare. I'd carry a rear axle shaft or front unit hub before a CV personally. Imo a front ring and pinion will fail before a CV (if a race car is to be an example :D). That said chances always favor the prepared.

Now aftermarket parts store variety CV's are know for issues across the board... bad boots, ticking, failure, etc.

Changing a CV in the field would be a chore but certainly not insurmountable. At a minimum you have to run the outer CV joint to hold the unit bearing together. You could plug up the front diff, lock the CDL and drive in home if needs be.
 
Hey Kurt, to switch to a different part...

The only 200 part I’ve personally seen fail was a few of the 8 alignment cam tabs sheared off. Granted that was in something worse than race conditions. So that has been the only thing that I’ve reinforced when I got mine.

Have you seen any of those fail from racing?
 
I have had a couple CV failures. However, they were induced by improper driveline angles. I had the front wheels adjusted forward using the alignment capabilty of the SPC upper arms. I have since spoken with SPC, and they recommend not to exceed 3/4" forward adjustment. I was close 1 1/4".

Changing the CV on the trail was pretty simple, but you do need extra diff oil and a catch pan. Since that trip and seeing @TonyP impact spin the axle nut, I have purchased one. Amazing what they can do much easier than using a prybay on the hub and a breaker bar on the nut.
 
Changing the CV on the trail was pretty simple, but you do need extra diff oil and a catch pan. Since that trip and seeing @TonyP impact spin the axle nut, I have purchased one. Amazing what they can do much easier than using a prybay on the hub and a breaker bar on the nut.

And what did he use on the Ball joint?

Not the same rig, but on my daughters 4runner in Moab it tore a boot really bad and it got wet. We went to Carquest and bought a CV to replace. That snapped the next day during wheeling. Fortunately I had ordered a boot repair kit as a backup) and a friend picked it up on his way in. We repacked and rebuilt the original CV and it worked fro years at least until we sold it. That taught me to only buy Toyota CV's.

I have a friend who swapped his 200 over to a Tundra setup and bought one of his CVs as a spare. I carried a sparer axle and Birf in my 80 and needed it./ I carried a spare CV in my 100> I didn't need it, but someone else at Moab did and they sent me a replacement after the event.
 
On the 200, the lower ball joint comes off with the knuckle.
You can swap CVS with only removing the axle nut, lower knuckle bolts, and some creative hammering/ persuading .
 

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