Builds The "Red Rocket" Troopy (7 Viewers)

[theglobb]

Here is a physical view of why we think this is the issue


as you can see the throughout bearing slides all the way it can backwards under the force of the pressure plate until it hits that expanded part of the bearing retainer that is made of a different metal, here's another photo so I can make it as clear as possible

The red is the enlarged part of the bearing retainer that we think may be holding up the throwout bearing the green is the part where the bearing slides along.

If this is the issue... take it off and just get the whole thing machined to the same measurement as the part the bearing slides on? Advice??

I know you know this but please take your time evaluating your drivetrain's geometry when done installing things. I don't think that you have a particular problem or anything, I just always want to be cautious with the arrangement of the drivetrain, as the forces involved (when not setup right) are sufficient for things to self destruct. Again, I don't see any red flags other than the obvious lack of mounts

Yes! The clunk is still happening in low range, especially in reverse but other than that its resolved. Thanks for the reinforcement

Once you get the tranny secured to a mount, you might fine that your cheap motor mounts are holding the engine just fine. The engine rocks and moves alot more when your crossmember mount is bad

The mounts may be slightly better? still moves the engine a ton when just revving it up. I'll have to swap to the pricey mounts at some point.

 

[jblueridge]

Can the back side of the throwout bearing be machined down?
If not, then I would get the nose of the retainer cut back.

 

[theglobb]

Can the back side of the throwout bearing be machined down?
If not, then I would get the nose of the retainer cut back.

Here's an old photo I have, there is some material I could shave off

My only game plan as of right now is use washers to build up 1/8th or 1/4 of an inch of space on my adapter plate, thus setting everything farther further. Take it for a test drive, if the washers "fix" the slipping then will get a spacer the shape of my adapter plate of whatever width I need, unbolt everything and put it all back together with the spacer. If this doesn't work then I guess I have to machine down the bearing retainer in order to give everything more room

 

[jblueridge]

Will a thicker or spaced adapter plate affect motor and transmission mount alignment?
I hope that works for you.
I'd get the factory's bearing retainer milled down only if nothing else does the trick.
I thought first about the throwout bearing since that part is easily replaceable.

 

[theglobb]

Washers in place fixed the slipping issue of the clutch! Awesome the theory was correct, only issue now the clutch now doesn’t work at all. Need to extend the rod in order for it to move everything as it should.

 

[Felde]

You are getting there!
Sound diagnosis. Well done.

 

[theglobb]

You are getting there!
Sound diagnosis. Well done.

Thank you! Much more diagnosing to come nothing goes to plan lol

This part of the swap after getting the engine in has felt like such a circle jerk. So we lengthened the slave cylinder rod in order to allow for the maximum travel possible, have lengthed the master cylinder rod in order to use its full potential. Even with this done, clutch doesn't move enough for me to be able to put it into a gear. OK so then I took out 2 of the washers to just have 1 washer in place, NOPE still doesn't let it go into gear. 1 single washer... 1/10th of an inch... is the difference between my clutch slipping but being able to change gears vs my clutch not slipping but not being able to go into gears. This is the first part of the swap that has been pretty infuriating. Just the fact that I'm 1/10th of an inch off of the swap not being functional either way, it's almost comical. Just that 1 little washer changes so much.

I have 2 routes to go now, the issue really is with my master cylinder, it only moves the Isuzu slave cylinder 2/3's of its full amount before it runs out of fluid to push. I could get a different and bigger MC and have to make a whole adapter plate and all this stuff just for a clutch master cylinder.... or just grind everything in the bell housing area that is affecting my clearances.

I've looked at other Toyota master cylinders that could bolt up or are pretty similar but they all look the exact same size or smaller. The only one that sticks out is a manual 80 series clutch master cylinder, looks like it would be a direct bolt up but I have no way of knowing if the bore and stroke of the cylinder is bigger than the one for the 70 series...

My Plan: rip the engine out, give a bigto that 1/10th of an inch and give everything PLENTY of clearance all around. After that bolt it all together and see if it can go into gear and not slip the clutch. If this fails then I just have to suck it up and figure out how to custom fab some non OEM master cylinder in the engine bay. The whole goal with this swap was to keep pretty much everything as much Toyota as possible. Maybe the 80 series clutch master would work but I cant find any info listing the stroke and bore of the 70 series or 80 series clutch master.

So at the end of the day, I prepped the engine to pull it out tomorrow. After doing it so many times over and over I have become extremely proficient, took me just under an hour to take the front end off, radiator out, disconnect all hoses, lines, electrical, and unbol the bellhosuing/motor mount bolts. Ready to pull

 

[Gun Runner 5]

I know it’s frustrating to you but it’s enlightening to see someone who doesn’t have a ga-zillion dollar budget and the ability to throw tons of new parts at a project, keep plugging away.
Good luck…..

 

[bj70bc]

yes....learning hurts sometimes

 

[gilmorneau]

The only one that sticks out is a manual 80 series clutch master cylinder

Borrow your dad's.

Just remember to put it back when you're done measuring it.

 

[jblueridge]

I had these folks rebuild my clutch and brake mc’s and boosters.
They might have specs/references on bore and stroke of hydraulics.
https://whitepost.com

 

[theglobb]

I know it’s frustrating to you but it’s enlightening to see someone who doesn’t have a ga-zillion dollar budget and the ability to throw tons of new parts at a project, keep plugging away.
Good luck…..

Appreciate the kind words, fact I have a tight budget all the time bites me in the ass quite a bit but also leads to new ways of figuring stuff out, instead of just throwing money at it. Due to my lack of $$$ I am learning many valuable things that will come in handy for the future. Just a pain to deal with now. Hopefully later in life I'll have the money to throw at stuff and all of the know-how.

Borrow your dad's.

Just remember to put it back when you're done measuring it.

Already suggested this, doesn't want me messing up his holy grail of all land cruisers. Dont blame him haha

I had these folks rebuild my clutch and brake mc’s and boosters.
They might have specs/references on bore and stroke of hydraulics.
https://whitepost.com

Thank you! I also figured out the bore of each the ones I was debating.

Here is the 70 series one, the arrow leading to 3/4 which is the bore

anddd there is the 80 series one, also labeled as 3/4... the search is over

 

[theglobb]

So then my dad mentioned using a single circuit FJ40 brake master, they have a 1-inch bore. Only issue is they obviously don't line up. Here is a post from 9 years ago on it. He does mention an FJ75, but the heavy part doesn't seem too enjoyable. Wish I could contact him to see how he did it but he's been inactive since 2017. Might be my only way of making the clutch work properly for my swap.

 

[AirheadNut]

Is using the Isuzu master cylinder with some kind of adapter bracket out of the question?

 

[bj70bc]

^^this

 

[theglobb]

Is using the Isuzu master cylinder with some kind of adapter bracket out of the question?

Yes, totally. Maybe if I was a wizard, but due to it being a box truck, the master cylinder looks like a slave cylinder and uses fluid from the brake master as its own. all of it while being mounted sideways at an angle inside the cab above the pedals... funky stuff

Yes that is the master cylinder, I had to double check multiple times my first time seeing it that it wasn't the slave

edit: I've found more info, this master cylinder is also a 3/4 bore but I guess just has a longer stroke

 

[AirheadNut]

Interesting. I wonder if a bracket like this could work along with a remote fluid reservoir? Something like this could fairly easily be made from some pieces of square tubing, plate, and heavy walled round tube or shaft collar.

 

[AirheadNut]

Alternatively, it looks like the next generation of NPR used a more Toyota-like clutch master cylinder that may be easier to adapt, assuming the bore and stroke are the same.

 

[robmobile73]

J-You're doing a great job. Listen to your dad, keep passing at school and keep moving forward. You will figure it out. You will also be better off for having done it.-R.

 

[theglobb]

Alternatively, it looks like the next generation of NPR used a more Toyota-like clutch master cylinder that may be easier to adapt, assuming the bore and stroke are the same.
View attachment 3356699

Hadn't had even considered a remote reservoir for the fluid to stay in. Was kinda at a mental roadblock last night.

This later series master looks pretty promising I could do some sort of X mounting plate since they are angled at exact opposite directions. Thanks for making up that model of what I could do using the current NPR master. Your wizardry is appreciated.