Thinking ahead is definitely the way to do it. Now I'm even more pumped to see how it looks.
Build "The Milk Truck" FJ45 Preservation Sorta
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Thinking ahead is definitely the way to do it. Now I'm even more pumped to see how it looks.
- Thread starter
- #162
It didn't take me long to decide I didn't like that crossmember above the gas tank. It seemed too foreign and I thought the narrow edges that the tank rests against would eventually wear through the linex on the tank. It took me longer to settle on what would be better fit.
The 45 frame originally had some diagonal supports that tied the rear frame to the rear cross member. I had to remove them but held onto the parts. I removed the cross brace pictured to fill this need.
The brace was too short to work with out modifying it. I cut some plates to extend it, so it would extend over the frame.
I welded a plate on top to extend the support to the length needed and added a smaller plate on the bottom to keep the support flush across the extensions.
The 45 frame originally had some diagonal supports that tied the rear frame to the rear cross member. I had to remove them but held onto the parts. I removed the cross brace pictured to fill this need.
The brace was too short to work with out modifying it. I cut some plates to extend it, so it would extend over the frame.
I welded a plate on top to extend the support to the length needed and added a smaller plate on the bottom to keep the support flush across the extensions.
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- Thread starter
- #164
I have been debating roll over protection for this build. I recognize a full cage tied to the frame would give me the most protection but it is the most intrusive (I have been looking at the metal tech cage). I am researching less intrusive options like a bed mounted roll bar that is tied into the frame at 4 points or a seat cradle in the cab with one tall hoop behind the seat - the tall hoop and cradle would be tied to the frame as well. I would ideally like a design that keeps the front of the cab clear.
I have been reading a bunch of threads discussing the various perspectives for roll cages and one on those that stuck out recently was the possibility of getting injured in the vehicle by striking the roll cage. It is suggested you wear a helmet and pad the cage to provide more safety for the occupants. The 45 is pretty tight in the cab with a cage. The flat version of this rig had a cage in it, so I know that from experience. I also plan to DD this rig for fun and errands as much as I can, so wearing a helmet in it to DD is not going to happen.
I am leaning toward building a roll bar in the bed with four mounting points that would tie into the frame. The other benefit of this option, so I think, is it won't require the cab to get hard tied to the frame and reduce vibrations felt through the cab being tied into the frame.
Thoughts, experience, examples?
I have been reading a bunch of threads discussing the various perspectives for roll cages and one on those that stuck out recently was the possibility of getting injured in the vehicle by striking the roll cage. It is suggested you wear a helmet and pad the cage to provide more safety for the occupants. The 45 is pretty tight in the cab with a cage. The flat version of this rig had a cage in it, so I know that from experience. I also plan to DD this rig for fun and errands as much as I can, so wearing a helmet in it to DD is not going to happen.
I am leaning toward building a roll bar in the bed with four mounting points that would tie into the frame. The other benefit of this option, so I think, is it won't require the cab to get hard tied to the frame and reduce vibrations felt through the cab being tied into the frame.
Thoughts, experience, examples?
You definitely can bonk your head pretty good on a cage. It seems to happen a lot of you are going fast on rough terrain, or when you get the major body sway going over obstacles. Harnesses can help restrain you a lot and prevent that. I wouldn't see it as any worse than not having a cab mounted cage, if you are in a rollover or accident, there is no padding on any of the surfaces of the cab anyways. You can still hit your head. Although the cage may sit a little lower, you can usually get them pretty far out of the way. I would prefer a full cage instead of the cab mounted cage, just because you know there is guaranteed rollover protection for the cab. A bed-mounted cage would help more than not, but it won't protect you as much if the cab rolls into a tree or a rock tries to poke through the fiberglass top. These older vehicles are not really designed to protect the passengers, and there is always an inherent risk if you get in an accident with them. The Metaltech cages are not designed for high-speed crashes. They have no triangulation in the cage design, although it can be added. They will probably work fine in a low-speed flop or rollover.
You need to be careful when doing a frame tied cage. The body moves independently of the frame, so you need to have some sort of isolation for the cage to prevent stress fractures. I'm sure @Godfather90 could explain that a lot better.
A little food for thought I guess. Either way, any cage is better than no cage.
You need to be careful when doing a frame tied cage. The body moves independently of the frame, so you need to have some sort of isolation for the cage to prevent stress fractures. I'm sure @Godfather90 could explain that a lot better.
A little food for thought I guess. Either way, any cage is better than no cage.
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- Thread starter
- #166
@DangerNoodle, I recognize that anything less than a full cage is a compromise. I hate the idea of compromising safety but I generally recognize there are risks in life at varying levels in the different activities I pursue. That said I don't want to build a death trap but rather something that will allow me to survive even if the truck is a total wreck after what ever accident it is in. The worst accident I see occurring is something at highway speed +/- 70mph or rolling down a mountain switch back but I think this second far less likely. I am still researching cage options, so a cage is still option. I have googled FJ45 roll over and found some convincing images that suggest a bed roll bar might not be enough.
You mentioned using some caution when tieing the cage into the frame through the cab. I was told it was bed to tied the cage into the frame without bushings but to keep the soft cab mount bushings in place. I am trying to make sense of this logic as it seems that if you tie the cage to the frame then using sold spacers in place of the bushing would be appropriate and eliminate the cab from flexing independent of the cage. I have spent a lot of effort to improve the ride of the project by adding the 80 suspension, it seems like a step back to eliminate the cab bushings or tie the cage into frame. Hopefully @Godfather90 can explain this.
You mentioned using some caution when tieing the cage into the frame through the cab. I was told it was bed to tied the cage into the frame without bushings but to keep the soft cab mount bushings in place. I am trying to make sense of this logic as it seems that if you tie the cage to the frame then using sold spacers in place of the bushing would be appropriate and eliminate the cab from flexing independent of the cage. I have spent a lot of effort to improve the ride of the project by adding the 80 suspension, it seems like a step back to eliminate the cab bushings or tie the cage into frame. Hopefully @Godfather90 can explain this.
A roll cage in a 45 isn't going to save you in a 70mph head on collision. That's why modern vehicles are designed to crumple. It will help in a roll over on a trail though.
Decide what your intended use for the truck is and incorporate what is going to work best for you. I have a full cage with padding in one of my 40s, and the reduced interior space is worth it for me to incorporate the roll over protection for trail use. It is a bit of a pain when I use it around town, and I always have to tell people to watch their heads when climbing in.
I've seen some really nice cage integrations that run up through the dash and along the A pillar which open things up a lot in a 40/45. You certainly have the fab skills to do something like that. You can also tuck it up really tight along the top which would help.
Decide what your intended use for the truck is and incorporate what is going to work best for you. I have a full cage with padding in one of my 40s, and the reduced interior space is worth it for me to incorporate the roll over protection for trail use. It is a bit of a pain when I use it around town, and I always have to tell people to watch their heads when climbing in.
I've seen some really nice cage integrations that run up through the dash and along the A pillar which open things up a lot in a 40/45. You certainly have the fab skills to do something like that. You can also tuck it up really tight along the top which would help.
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- #168
I agree with you here, if I hit anything head on in a 45, cage or not, I don't expect the outcome would be good. I am only considering a cage/roll bar for the purpose of providing protection for a roll over type incident. I expect it could provide some protection in other accidents but I accept in driving an old vehicle like this that the risks are higher as it does not have all the modern safety features of todays vehicles. Less modern features is part of why I like these vehicles.
I am primarily looking to improve safety for a roll over but I am concerned about creating a new hazard, such as striking the cage in other accidents. What ever direction I go it would seem I compromise one concern for another.
I am pretty set in my use for this truck. I would guess it gets used 75% of the time driving pavement errands including highway driving and 25% for trail riding in the Colorado and New Mexico.
Currently I am leaning towards a rollbar tied into the frame at 4 points in the bed. I keep coming back to a adding a cage, so I could add a cage still at a later date. I have time and will probably keep researching options. I am not set on anything yet.
I do appreaciate everyone's comments, thoughts and insight. Keep them coming.
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FWIW, my buddy rolled his fj40 getting on a major highway, he went from gravel to pavement with a locker and a sbc, it went sideways and rolled back onto its wheels. It had an 80’s 6 point cage mounted to the tub with through bolts!!! He walked away and the cage did its job( truck was totaled) I think these days with tying into the frame, and chromoly tubing, most are way overkill. Plus most wheelin rollovers are slow!
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- #170
In my research I have also looked at what Icon does on their 45 builds. Considering they are the closest thing to a modern build of these vehicles I thought it would give me some ideas. Looking at what I could find they use a bed mounted roll bar in their 45. I also found one with a cage and another had a single behind the seat roll bar that created a mount location for three pount seat belts. I would guess some of the differences are decisions made by the customer.
It would seem that personal preference and intended use of the vehicle are what influences the decision the most.
It would seem that personal preference and intended use of the vehicle are what influences the decision the most.
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- #171
Part of my indecision on this is trying to determine what is over kill and what is sufficient. Like the frame tie in and even some of the design diferences. Like you pointed out I have wondered if the cagehas to be tied to the frame. Is it sufficient to have it just bolted through the cab floor?
I expect if the 45 gets rolled at speed it is totaled and that will suck but acceptable if I survive.
Glad your buddy walked away from his accident.
I am considering these same questions for the cage in my fj40. I am leaning toward oversize plates (larger than the footprint of the topside plate) on the underside and not going to the frame.
That's what I am doing. I think it should work well.
How about an exo cage ,tie to the frame
It could be removeble and also serve as a roof rack
It could be removeble and also serve as a roof rack
Definitely possible and a good compromise, but I think that it would be hard to get it to look good. I do think that it would be a good option to look at though.
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- #176
I don't want the look of an exo cage. It could work but it is just not what I want for this build.
I had an 80 once with an exo cage. It seemes like it was a lot heavier to build strong aroung the outside of the vehicle than if it had an internal cage. I don't want to build the 45 any heavier than necesary.
Not a full exo , i was thinking about a front bar connected to the lower part of the windshield hinges and two connecter to the bed bar
The one on this pic is too high , it could look better if mounted closer to the roof
The one on this pic is too high , it could look better if mounted closer to the roof
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- #178
@jim land, after seeing what you are suggesting, I still don't think that the external option is the way I want to go. It jog a thought in my decision making process though. In evaluating the exo cage you suggested I remembered that I would like to drive the truck on the trail with the top off or with a soft top. I don't want to have to remove the exo cage to get the hard top off and on. This also made me realize that if I plan to drive the 45 on trail with out the top I probably need to go with a cage in the cab. I cannot see that running on a trail with a soft top and no cage or just a single role bar will provide me enough protection. I feel like I may have circled back to the Metaltech cage in the cab or a similar cage.
If you are looking at an in-cab cage, here is what I did for my A-Pillar to keep it low profile. I would consider it just as strong, but it really keeps the footwells open. It mounts right next to the body mount, so it pretty strong. I doh'd with the lower dash pads, so something will have to get notched to get them to fit, but besides that, I like them.
Just a thought.
DJ
My buddy’s 45, he went a bit extreme with the exo!
