The end ? (5 Viewers)

[clx16]

My 2 cents.

1 Remove the grille guard, that is a damage multiplier and makes it harder for you to get to the engine.
2 Buy a new head gasket and refresh the head with new valve guide seals
3 consider replacing the timing cover and that old o ring that is likely hard as a rock.. but also the oil pump impeller so you are basically new up front when you put in the new timing chain and guides.
4 put new oil in it.

the factory service manual tells you how to do everything, and what is hard to understand can be interpreted for free by a bunch of people here. I couldn't justify the tools to measure the bores from the pictures posted so i wouldn't even bother with checking them. Unless something is horrible that isn't pictured.

my 2 cents doesn't see even a full rebuild.

 

[cruzinfj1]

There are a couple used ones for sale in the classifieds. Pick one up, put it in. Rebuild yours and then swap it in, sell the used one you know is still a good runner to recoup some of your rebuild cost.

 

[samiam09]

Well, someone is pulling your leg.
That engine is not "sleeved" because it's a gas engine, not diesel.
I can still see the cross-hatching on the cylinder walls and minimal wear. There are no offset shiny areas within the cylinder walls.

Tell us the conditions of head gasket failure. What, when, and how that happened.

Yes, it's very possible the timing chain guides are broken.

Have the head reworked, install new timing chain and guides.

I would specifically ask for actual cylinder measurements on each cylinder (using a bore gauge) then you can determine if the cylinders are out of spec.

Of course, the person doing the measurements must know how to PROPERLY use the tools to measure them.

I always question shops when they automatically say you need a rebuilt engine.

If you need, order a new 1FZ short block direct from Toyota and all the timing chain and kit parts. About $4500 for the short block.

Get a second opinion, I had a machine shop tell me my head was so warped it needed to be line bore in order for it to be of use. I threw it on my tail gate with a straight bar stock could not see a gap on it which ever direction I moved it. Took the head to a new shop had it back in a week, its been on my truck running fine for over a year.

 

[RCWRX]

Well, someone is pulling your leg.
That engine is not "sleeved" because it's a gas engine, not diesel.
I can still see the cross-hatching on the cylinder walls and minimal wear. There are no offset shiny areas within the cylinder walls.

Tell us the conditions of head gasket failure. What, when, and how that happened.

Yes, it's very possible the timing chain guides are broken.

Have the head reworked, install new timing chain and guides.

I would specifically ask for actual cylinder measurements on each cylinder (using a bore gauge) then you can determine if the cylinders are out of spec.

Of course, the person doing the measurements must know how to PROPERLY use the tools to measure them.

I always question shops when they automatically say you need a rebuilt engine.

If you need, order a new 1FZ short block direct from Toyota and all the timing chain and kit parts. About $4500 for the short block.

So… regarding the head gasket failure… I was driving highway speeds 65mph… noticed the temp gauge rising, which I knew was very unusual. Pulled over and allowed her to cool down for a while… no obvious leaks anywhere and the (entire cooling system had recently been replaced with a new koyorad radiator and all new OEM hoses, including a rear heat bypass).
I drove for about another 0.1 miles and found a lot of white smoke and saw the temps start rising again. pulled over and called for a tow. I never got the temp needle into the red, but assumed it had to be the gasket. The shop made the final diagnosis.

Attached are a few additional pics of the gasket. Kinda looks like failure at cylinder 1 and 2.. I’m definitely no expert.

 

[RCWRX]

I haven't been inside of one of these motors (yet), but it looks to me like the crosshatching is a little random, so maybe rebuilt once already? Also, the water journals look a bit crust from the top at least, so I'd plan on a full rebuild (by someone else), or a drop in from a running truck to get you out of there without too much pain. That said, @Fj80oregon does offer a great option too, and if you look at what he does, for a very fair price in my opinion.

In my eyes, you've done a lot of great work already on this rig so you should know it pretty well, a new heart and she'll last you a lifetime from now on...starting with another truck, you never know what you are getting. Yours looks to be in great shape body wise and you've done the suspension refresh too...I say keep her rolling and in your name!

Thanks CrabCake ! I’ll be honest if I were to do this again, I wouldn’t have bought the truck from NJ. There was definitely is, and was some rust issues around the body ( for the most part dealt with). There remains a rust hole under the battery tray and I needed to replace rear backing plates that had disentegrated in order to get working parking brakes again. Few rust areas along rear hatch as per usual and a bit along the bottom of the driver door. All planned to be fixed until the engine stuff came up. I’ve also had to have some welding and reinforcement along the rear axle which in my opinion looks stronger than factory. Living in New England, the undercarriage and body look way better than most cars 1/5th her age.

OK… I think I’ve aired out the dirty laundry : )

RC

 

[mudgudgeon]

Cylinder #1 is clearly affected.

Both the #1 piston and combustion chamber are steam cleaned. Markedly different from all the others.

I don't think they are wrong that the head gasket failed.
But I would want them to explain wha

t leads them to say the block has been sleeved and can't be rebuilt?

 

[cruzinfj1]

Cylinder #1 is clearly affected.

Both the #1 piston and combustion chamber are steam cleaned. Markedly different from all the others.

I don't think they are wrong that the head gasket failed.
But I would want them to explain whaView attachment 3807331View attachment 3807332t leads them to say the block has been sleeved and can't be rebuilt?

Why even waste the time asking? They had an opportunity and first thing, tried to jack him off! think itll be any better once they get into it? If they fed you that line, would you PAY and trust them to work on yours???

 

[mudgudgeon]

.

Why even waste the time asking?

Watch them squirm?

I agree with everything you said, but have enough knowledge to know its a fairly simple thing for a mechanic to measure a few parameters and make an informed assesment.
If asked, they should be able explain this process, and specific deficiencies before expecting a customer to spend $10k.

 

[RCWRX]

.


Watch them squirm?

I agree with everything you said, but have enough knowledge to know its a fairly simple thing for a mechanic to measure a few parameters and make an informed assesment.
If asked, they should be able explain this process, and specific deficiencies before expecting a customer to spend $10k.

Thanks all for the notes , info and support.
I’m thinking it’s definitely time to be getting her towed home or to another shop.

Dumb question, but wouldn’t I need to reinstall the head in order to pull the engine out of the truck?

I know this has been answered over and over, but if you had to do it would you ?
A: buy a new short block and rebuild
B: buy a fully rebuilt motor

Haven’t done a full analysis on cost.
I maybe able to acquire a new block from toyota fro $4000 +tax, no shipping cost ( deal through my local toyota dealer) + $1000 for head cleaning, pressure testing, valve seals, etc
$400? Timing chain kit
Everything else on the motor has been replaced (water pump, thermostat, etc)- i’ve got the gasket kit, new sensors, vacuum tubing, etc…
What else am i missing? Engine mounts?

RC

 

[cruzinfj1]

.


Watch them squirm?

I agree with everything you said, but have enough knowledge to know its a fairly simple thing for a mechanic to measure a few parameters and make an informed assesment.
If asked, they should be able explain this process, and specific deficiencies before expecting a customer to spend $10k.

You've got to much time on your hands!!! lol

He says right in his first post that "it is beyond my ability and time I took her to a trusted local shop for repair." Trust was lost when they fed a line of bull**** in my opinion...... Bet they would much rather sell him a complete long block and do the swap. Get paid the easy labor and then there's no responsibility either for the long block if it lasts 100 miles. OP will be left stuck with a bad motor, can fight it out with whoever the builder was, and then HOPEFULLY not have to pay these guys the labor to swap it again.... I wouldnt ever step foot in the place again if it were me.

 

[cruzinfj1]

Thanks all for the notes , info and support.
I’m thinking it’s definitely time to be getting her towed home or to another shop.

Dumb question, but wouldn’t I need to reinstall the head in order to pull the engine out of the truck?

I know this has been answered over and over, but if you had to do it would you ?
A: buy a new short block and rebuild
B: buy a fully rebuilt motor

Haven’t done a full analysis on cost.
I maybe able to acquire a new block from toyota fro $4000 +tax, no shipping cost ( deal through my local toyota dealer) + $1000 for head cleaning, pressure testing, valve seals, etc
$400? Timing chain kit
Everything else on the motor has been replaced (water pump, thermostat, etc)- i’ve got the gasket kit, new sensors, vacuum tubing, etc…
What else am i missing?

Shoot @Fj80oregon a message. I've chatted with him in the past, and knows these in and out.

 

[mudgudgeon]

You've got to much time on your hands!!! lol

He says right in his first post that "it is beyond my ability and time I took her to a trusted local shop for repair." Trust was lost when they fed a line of bull**** in my opinion...... Bet they would much rather sell him a complete long block and do the swap. Get paid the easy labor and then there's no responsibility either for the long block if it lasts 100 miles. OP will be left stuck with a bad motor, can fight it out with whoever the builder was, and then HOPEFULLY not have to pay these guys the labor to swap it again.... I wouldnt ever step foot in the place again if it were me.

You missed the part where I said I agree with you

 

[CharlieS]

Thanks all for the notes , info and support.
I’m thinking it’s definitely time to be getting her towed home or to another shop.

Dumb question, but wouldn’t I need to reinstall the head in order to pull the engine out of the truck?

I know this has been answered over and over, but if you had to do it would you ?
A: buy a new short block and rebuild
B: buy a fully rebuilt motor

Haven’t done a full analysis on cost.
I maybe able to acquire a new block from toyota fro $4000 +tax, no shipping cost ( deal through my local toyota dealer) + $1000 for head cleaning, pressure testing, valve seals, etc
$400? Timing chain kit
Everything else on the motor has been replaced (water pump, thermostat, etc)- i’ve got the gasket kit, new sensors, vacuum tubing, etc…
What else am i missing? Engine mounts?

RC

Given this binary choice, I'd get the rebuilt motor. I'd be on the phone with @Fj80oregon asap.

As people have said, there is a whole range of options that could get you back on the road with varying levels of residual risk, cost and certainty.

If I found myself in the same situation, I'd put a straightedge on the block, mic the cylinders, assuming it measures good, clean it up, toss a head gasket, valve seals, and replace anything broken or failing, and see how it runs. It might just go another couple hundred thousand miles like that. But that is me, labor is free to me, and I have the tools I'd need.

Tossing in a decent running used engine is pretty easy too. But it's a roll of the dice what you are getting if you can't hear it run, check compression, etc, before it is pulled. Lots of labor cost here.

A short block would be a good choice too, but there's lots of labor, more than just the remove and reinstall option. It gets you a brand new bottom end though.

I think all of your choices other than toss a head gasket on are going to be several thousands in labor to remove and reinstall, plus whatever else they need to do.

I think all options besides tossing a head gasket on are going to run in the ballpark of $8-10k, plus or minus.

And although I haven't tried it, I'm reasonably certain the engine can be removed without putting the head back on. It just needs something rigged up to lift from. And it is a lot lighter.

 

[mudgudgeon]

It's very simple to lift out an engine without the head on.

Attach a chain using a head bolt in diaginally opposite corners of the block.

 

[landtank]

The motor in my opinion is easily resurrected with minimal fuss. I wouldn't even machine the head. Lap the valves, replace the gaskets and seals, Replace the distributor O-Ring, oil pump seal and bushing, update the slippers and reseal the oil pan and replace the connecting rod bearings with clevites and drive it another 300,000 miles.

The condition of the under carriage is an entirely different story. IMO the condition of the under carriage is the determining factor on whether or not you more forward in resurrecting the truck.

 

[Malleus]

x2, all the above

BTW, I need a '94 parts truck. LMK if you decide to throw it away.

 

[CharlieS]

Option c: This mint body bolted onto my twin locked and rust free colorado chassis and running engine. lol

I'd much rather see you rescue it and continue to enjoy 80 ownership!

Besides, it's way too nice to destroy on trails.

 

[Broski]

Post # 35 IMO is the most sound advice given !!
With the rust under underneath I not sure short block and a full rebuild would be worth it.
Many have had a blown HG and just replaced the head gasket and motored on including me that was 9 years and many miles ago and she pushes 39s around.
I did have the head sent out to a shop and checked the only thing it needed was valve seals
Have that thing towed home dive in and learn how to put it back together.
Time to roll up your sleeves and get dirty !!

 

[Fj80oregon]

Lots of good advice in here, thanks for the shout out guys. Lots of options. Happy to help if you end up needing a rebuilt engine. You could very well take it home clean up the block have the head rebuilt and put it together. There is just too many variables to know much more unless you take apart the short block. The biggest thing to evaluate here is what are your plans for the truck and do a cost analysis. Is it worth spending money on? How much? If you can not do the work yourself can you find a shop that you can trust? When I first started rebuilding motors I had never done much more than general maintenance but thanks to this forum giving me the confidence to tackle it, it has turned into a passion and an awesome hobby. Enough about me whatever you decide keep us posted and if you need any help reach out I have talked to a lot of members solving issues and rebuilds they did themselves. Happy to talk 1fzfe’s anytime!
Wes

 

[powderpig]

Have you reached out to any one in High Desert to help you? They may have more resources around to help. I agree with others here. The shop you are working with, either does not know what they are looking at, nor trained very well. Or just taking advantage(mabe a combo). With out seeing more pictures of the other Bores, I can not tell you if your engine is viable with a little work or a full rebuild. I would also want to see inside the oil filter, and how the oil looks. More to all this, than seeing a few picturers and saying it can be easly saved.
What I can see is the head gasket was failing in several places, not just the one that allowed coolant into #1. Be interesting to see how the cross hatching is on that cylinder. If water has been leaking for a bit of time, it can take out the cross hatching. I see no signs of that block being sleeved.
If the gasket material is cleaned off, one will see no sleeves on the bores( that is a first generation head gasket, that engine has not been opened up before).
I agree with Landtank. Seem like you have a bit of a rust problem. I have seen owners do what ever they can to keep a favored Cruiser running, even when the frame is rotting thru, and not listoning to reason. Passon is one thing, stupid is another. (maybe stupid is too strong???).
At the end, it is your money, your cruiser.