The 2H/12H-T/1HZ/1HD-T/1HD-FT Gturbo Alternative Tech Thread (6 Viewers)

[mudgudgeon]

Saying 500° at 100km/hr is kind of meaningless.

It says nothing about the load on the engine, or how much fuel is being dumped into the engine.

Is that at 1/4 throttle, of full throttle?


750°c pre-turbo is widely considered safe. You should not be worried about heading out and doing an extended full throttle, high load run and see what maximum temps you hit.

Depending on your own appetite for risk, 850 -900 is safe too.
Petrol engines run at a lot higher EGT than diesel. I personally don't have any issue with running to max EGTs of 850c.
As a maximum temp, which you would only see after prolonged full throttle, high load conditions such as pulling a load up hill it's safe. Normally driving is not often going to push you to maximum temps. A momentary blip above this is no issue either if you are pushing hard briefly.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Wastegate spring isn't going to have any effect on boost or EMP until you're very close to the water gate spring preload.

2:1 drive ratio is not uncommon. Not ideal in a perfect world.

More boost may give you a lower EGT for the same level of fuelling

 

[Stephan Mester]

Hi Mudrover,
if you start "tuning" something its always wise to change the components settings you add on to OEM specs.
Means your wastgate actuator should have same springload as the OEM one.
Than you can start to find out how things change when you change a setting of one single item.

Starting with many different settings wont give you good results and also makes work much more complicated
Its a step by step procedure, also take notes of your setting changes for further documentation.

You can make your live easy or complicated

Cheers,
Stephan

 

[Mudrover]

That does seem high, where is your egt probe located exactly? For reference my 1hd-fte 79 has a egt probe located in the manifold about 25mm from the side of the block in the old egr port. With a stock turbo, at about 12psi, no intercooler or chip, the absolute max I get get it to is 650° . Cruising is about 400 - 450° at 115km/h.

I had to drill a fresh hole for the egt probe, mine doesn't have any egr, a bit old eh. So I positioned it in the main 'collector' above the flange. While I had the manifold off fitting the new turbo I drilled and tapped a hole for the EMP probe just below the egt probe as you should see in the pic.
I would say with my stock turbo the temps I would see would be the same as what you've just described, hence why I'm so surprised to see them go up by such an amount, perhaps though what I'm seeing is what you may naturally see after changing the geometry of the turbine, however this turbine and housing is smaller than the stock turbo so I did not expect to see boost drop and egt's rise maybe as a result?

 

[Mudrover]

Hi Mudrover,
if you start "tuning" something its always wise to change the components settings you add on to OEM specs.
Means your wastgate actuator should have same springload as the OEM one.
Than you can start to find out how things change when you change a setting of one single item.

Starting with many different settings wont give you good results and also makes work much more complicated
Its a step by step procedure, also take notes of your setting changes for further documentation.

You can make your live easy or complicated

Cheers,
Stephan

Hi Stephan, yeah I hear you about keeping it simple, I think it got complicated the moment I changed the turbo in the first place!
Different turbine, different compressor multiple changes right there!
This is sort of what I can't get my head around, it's not making as much boost as the wastegate spring is set to currently so I'm not sure what effect changing to a weaker spring will have, I also have to assume that it's fuelling, or the lack of, that's stopping it from boosting higher, but with egts already quite high (relative to how I was testing it at the time, not the absolute max temperature able to be reached pulling long and hard up a steep hill as @mudgudgeon is recommending, which I will do) it seems counter-intuitive.
This is what is causing me to be quite confused about the way forward.
Maybe I do need to just get out onto a steep hill and find out what the absolute max is and work backwards from there...

 

[Nz Nath]

18g compressor too big?

 

[mudgudgeon]

Lots of aspects of tuning these is counter intuitive.

If you haven't already take a read through this thread

The Official 1HD-T/FT Fuel Pump Mod Tuning Thread

With a lot of people installing aftermarket turbo's and looking for some serious performance gains I am hoping to create a thread to help people properly tune and understand how to tune the 1hd-t/ft and even 1hz pumps fitted with a boost compensator or aneroid. Most people have seen this post...

forum.ih8mud.com

Around page 40 ish (can't remember exactly) there's a couple of guys working through tuning a 'new to them' truck

 

[KiwiDingo]

it's not making as much boost as the wastegate spring is set to currently so I'm not sure what effect changing to a weaker spring will have, I also have to assume that it's fuelling, or the lack of, that's stopping it from boosting higher

Just because the spring you have installed says 22psi doesn't always mean you'll get 22psi and a lighter spring will no doubt make this even worse. How much pre-load do you have on the gate, are you regulating pressure going to the actuator, what fueling (AFR) do you have? Have you tried running it with no boost pressure going to the actuator to see if it goes any higher? It could also be that you only just had enough fueling to achieve the 17psi previously with the smaller factory turbo and now with the larger one you'll need more fuel. Quite a few things it could be until you start ruling things out.

 

[Mudrover]

Just because the spring you have installed says 22psi doesn't always mean you'll get 22psi and a lighter spring will no doubt make this even worse. How much pre-load do you have on the gate, are you regulating pressure going to the actuator, what fueling (AFR) do you have? Have you tried running it with no boost pressure going to the actuator to see if it goes any higher? It could also be that you only just had enough fueling to achieve the 17psi previously with the smaller factory turbo and now with the larger one you'll need more fuel. Quite a few things it could be until you start ruling things out.

Hi kiwidingo, the spring preload is set up as per Mamba spec, and I checked its 'crack' pressure by applying pressure to the gate via a regulator and it started to move at about 21psi.
I'm not regulating it yet, I've got the mbc inline but set at zero (closed no bleed) for now.
Unfortunately I don't have a AFR gauge yet, I have to pay off the turbo first! But that's is next on the shop list.
I will try running it with the gate disconnected as you say to see what it does, as well as checking max temp up a hill.
Cheers

 

[KiwiDingo]

Hi kiwidingo, the spring preload is set up as per Mamba spec, and I checked its 'crack' pressure by applying pressure to the gate via a regulator and it started to move at about 21psi.

Just keep in mind crack pressure of the actuator is only half of the force acting on the gate. You need to also factor in EMP pushing the gate open too which often means you need a few more turns of preload than what you would have when running lower boost.

 

[Wildnlost]

Hi guys, first time poster here.
I've really enjoyed reading the entire 94pgs or so, but I need your help!
I've got a 1994 Hdj80 1HD-T auto, 4" lift on 33's, I've done a 4" in/out airbox mod, has top mount, Safari snorkel, a jap import 2 3/4 exhaust (was on it) and I have had the standard turbo running at 17psi for a few years now, I modded the fuel pin grinding the taper deeper and was running a tune that worked really well, responded well, egt's maxxed at 700deg pre turbo up long mountain pass, a slight puff smoke off the line, 350deg @11psi @100kph steady. EMP as expected relatively high at about 2:1 @3-3.5k rpm.
Gauges I've got boost & EGT, EMP, but do not have AFR yet.
So that's my back story, I've recently taken the plunge and bought and fitted a Mamba 12-11 Td05h 18g, I've changed nothing yet fuel wise and am really shocked at how high the egt's have shot up to and how relatively unresponsive it is.
It is sitting at 500deg at 100kph and only 5psi boost. It also only seems to want to boost to 17psi as well at max throttle even though I got greedy and installed the strongest alternative wastegate spring that came with the kit... EMP at 17psi and 3-3.5k rpm is about 30psi.
I realise I have to tune the fuel for it but I'm really confused about which way to go!
With the low boost response I'd up the fuel but the egt's are already high so I feel like that may only make things worse, what could possibly be wrong here? Could the 22psi wastegate spring be causing the high EGT by causing higher EMP?
Should I change it out for the 18psi spring?
Or do you think this is purely a fuel issue?
I'd really appreciate any help you guys can give me!
Cheers Jeff.

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I had the same problem with my Mamba related to the boost not rising to their posted spring pressures. Used a manual boost controller initially and have recently installed an electronic boost controller. Your boost at 100kph is similar to my results as well. The electronic boost controller did help with spool as it cuts the boost pressure to the actuator completely until manifold pressure is close to your boost set point. I run 1100deg F as my max temp. At 100 kph my pre turbo temp is about 650deg F. At 28psi boost pressure I am seeing about 44psi exhaust manifold back pressure. Up there for sure. I had posted vids to youtube awhile back ....cruising 100kph.... 2nd gear start etc. These vids were shot with a leaking head gasket.

 

[Dougal]

Have you mapped out the 18G compressor? It may be your problem.

 

[Stephan Mester]

Hi Mudrover,
did you tested your interooler piping and intercooler for leaks?

 

[Stephan Mester]

To Wildnlost, what electronic boost controller do you use?

 

[HoJo 61]

Not directly on topic, but related.

I have build a divided exhaust manifold for divided turbo. The turbo is internally wastegated.
I'm going to add EGT and EGP gauges, so the question is which one goes to which side(wastegated side or n/a), or does it matter at all?

 

[KiwiDingo]

I'm going to add EGT and EGP gauges, so the question is which one goes to which side(wastegated side or n/a), or does it matter at all?

EGT should ideally be in the exhaust manifold before the turbo and EMP obviously the same.

I also have a divided manifold and it works so much better than the factory one. I'm still using a single scroll turbine housing so you should see even more benefits. What size is you exhaust housing and is that a HX30 or 35? I hear nothing but good things about holsets, looking forward to hearing how you get on with it.

 

[HoJo 61]

EGT should ideally be in the exhaust manifold before the turbo and EMP obviously the same.

They are both going to be located before the turbo, but i'm looking for opinions on if egt (or pressure pickup) probe is better on the other side of the divided manifold than the other.

It is a 35 with 16# housing. 12 or 14 would probably be better but lets give the 16 a shot first.

 

[KiwiDingo]

For EMP it doesn't really matter where you stick it, I've measured from both in the turbine housing and the exhaust manifold and got the exact same pressure reading. For EGT most put it in the collector area to get the average for all 6 cylinders but a lot also stick it in there unused EGR port outside cylinder 6. I've never tested both locations at the same time so can't say how close they'll be, I've heard talk online of guys saying about 10-20 degrees difference but not sure how true that is? I also have a split manifold and currently have mine in the back bank outside cylinder 4/5.

I like big housing, be interesting to see how much you'll need to gate/if at all.

 

[Stephan Mester]

you can use a adaptor flange between turbo and manifold which is thick enough to give n EGT probe the space its needs.
probably the easiest and cheapest solution

 

[HoJo 61]