Take 3, the Forever 45- IFS and 1uz-vvti (1 Viewer)

[YODA 88 62]

Check your angles like the link below. Side view and top view picture would help for opinions.

Pinion & U-Joint Angles

www.therangerstation.com

 

[YODA 88 62]

Absolutely not…that’s awesome.

 

[DangerNoodle]

That doesn't look too bad for a double cardan. Don't forget that everything is probably going to compress a bit once the weight of the cab and bed, fuel tank, and anything else gets added on top. You are probably pretty close to full drop on the rear right now. You may also have to find some lighter springs for the rear if they ride too harshly or don't settle to ride height well.

 

[Vossie]

Check your angles like the link below. Side view and top view picture would help for opinions.

Pinion & U-Joint Angles

www.therangerstation.com

Thanks, have been trying to do the research but not really finding the answer I'm looking for, that or I'm not getting it.
My set up should be like the 2nd one in the pic, with the angles parallel, just with each point at more of an overall angle from each other, similar to what I've drawn.

Would that work? Would it work if there was a double cardan at the top?

That doesn't look too bad for a double cardan. Don't forget that everything is probably going to compress a bit once the weight of the cab and bed, fuel tank, and anything else gets added on top. You are probably pretty close to full drop on the rear right now. You may also have to find some lighter springs for the rear if they ride too harshly or don't settle to ride height well.

Ja, very true. Right now she's sitting at completely full drop. The po of the surf had extra coil springs put inside the normal ones so she's as stiff as a board. I'm definitely going to soften it all up, remove the extra springs, but figured it would help to build it like this because then I'm working everything out at full drop.

So you think a double cardan is workable? Would I have to rotate the diff? I really don't want to have to do that if I'm honest.

 

[DangerNoodle]

Thanks, have been trying to do the research but not really finding the answer I'm looking for, that or I'm not getting it.
My set up should be like the 2nd one in the pic, with the angles parallel, just with each point at more of an overall angle from each other, similar to what I've drawn.
View attachment 2907539
Would that work? Would it work if there was a double cardan at the top?

Ja, very true. Right now she's sitting at completely full drop. The po of the surf had extra coil springs put inside the normal ones so she's as stiff as a board. I'm definitely going to soften it all up, remove the extra springs, but figured it would help to build it like this because then I'm working everything out at full drop.

So you think a double cardan is workable? Would I have to rotate the diff? I really don't want to have to do that if I'm honest.

you would have to rotate the pinion for a double cardan. It doesn't need to be perfect, but it will have to get closer to pointing at the case. Measure the height differences and work out the angle. There are some pretty high-angle joints that may be able to squeak by if you aren't planning on a lot of air time.

 

[Vossie]

you would have to rotate the pinion for a double cardan. It doesn't need to be perfect, but it will have to get closer to pointing at the case. Measure the height differences and work out the angle. There are some pretty high-angle joints that may be able to squeak by if you aren't planning on a lot of air time.

No air time planned, but plenty of highway time, so I want to get this right. Looks like I'm clocking the diff up towards the transfer, oh well, can't be helped. Let's do it!

 

[DangerNoodle]

No air time planned, but plenty of highway time, so I want to get this right. Looks like I'm clocking the diff up towards the transfer, oh well, can't be helped. Let's do it!

I didn't word that last sentence very well. I'd figure out total difference on flange heights, and overall length, and then check to see what the angle is. You may be able to get away with a standard shaft with high angle joints.

 

[YODA 88 62]

Double Cardons are usually at the transmission transfer case. Jeeps with 4” or higher lift kits are the most common application I’ve seen. Flat fender Jeep pictured. They have very short drive shafts with a steep angle. Using two cardon joint is also possible…not likely in your situation. Vibration and u-joint wear are the main issues with steep angles.

Maybe wait until you get your springs changed and the bed installed to see what your angles are going down the road. You’ll also be trying to level out you ride level too.

OR build a normal drive shaft knowing you can add the double cardon later.

Are you building the drive shafts yourself? Balancing them is a good idea. Not sure what your options are.

 

[Vossie]

I didn't word that last sentence very well. I'd figure out total difference on flange heights, and overall length, and then check to see what the angle is. You may be able to get away with a standard shaft with high angle joints.

Ja, good idea. At least I know there is a possible plan, so cab push on with the build, get everything on the frame and then dial in ride height before I get the prop shafts made.

Double Cardons are usually at the transmission transfer case. Jeeps with 4” or higher lift kits are the most common application I’ve seen. Flat fender Jeep pictured. They have very short drive shafts with a steep angle. Using two cardon joint is also possible…not likely in your situation. Vibration and u-joint wear are the main issues with steep angles.

Maybe wait until you get your springs changed and the bed installed to see what your angles are going down the road. You’ll also be trying to level out you ride level too.

OR build a normal drive shaft knowing you can add the double cardon later.

Are you building the drive shafts yourself? Balancing them is a good idea. Not sure what your options are.

View attachment 2907688

No, that's one thing I think I will pay a pro to do. I'm pretty hands on but with something like that I think it's best to go with an expert.

So there is a possibility of using a standard prop shaft with high angle joints. What sort of angles can those do and still manage highway speeds?

 

[DangerNoodle]

Ja, good idea. At least I know there is a possible plan, so cab push on with the build, get everything on the frame and then dial in ride height before I get the prop shafts made.

No, that's one thing I think I will pay a pro to do. I'm pretty hands on but with something like that I think it's best to go with an expert.

So there is a possibility of using a standard prop shaft with high angle joints. What sort of angles can those do and still manage highway speeds?

You can get them pretty steep. My rear is about 17" long and living at about 11* at ride height IIRC. I've gotten it up to 90MPH with no vibrations.

 

[Vossie]

You can get them pretty steep. My rear is about 17" long and living at about 11* at ride height IIRC. I've gotten it up to 90MPH with no vibrations.

Good to know, thanks!

 

[Vossie]

Well I finalised my engine and trans mounts. Very happy with them, very beefy. With the engine in I have about 1 1/4" between the sump and the front diff. This being IFS, that gap should in theory never change, no matter what I'm doing.

I had to cut the middle cross member. I trimmed it only as much as needed as it provides a lot of mounting points for things such as brake lines and hand brake lines. I will clean it up at a later date though.

And that's the engine and trans in with the tub on. Big milestone for me.

 

[Vossie]

Mocked up the front fenders and bib and then placed the load tray on to get an idea of what she will look like and see where I want to trim the rear of the tray.

The black line is where I'm thinking

Plenty of space in the engine bay too

 

[Vossie]

I've been throwing around the idea of stretching the chassis a bit. The main reason is to help out with those pesky rear drive shaft angles. But a longer wheel bade will also improve the ride and towing stability. I toyed with extending the cab as well, but I'm not a massive fan of the look of a stretched 45 cab. If I have too to get my lexus seats in, I might stretch the cab by a few inches, but not much more than that.

The plan is to stretch the wheel base by 300mm. That will take it from 2625mm wheel base to 2925mm, just half an inch shorter than a true 45s wheel base.

Here is some of the maths on the rear drive shafts that helped me arrive at 300mm extension.

This is as it sits right now. The parallel distance between the pinion and the tcase flange is 620mm and there's a 280mm vertical drop.

That gives me a 24.3° shaft angle. Combined with the 3.5 pinion angle and the 4.5 tcase angle, that gives us this

Basically 20° working angle. A little high, but not huge. Here's how that all changes if I change the wheel base by 300mm...

So much better!! 13° should mean I don't even need a double cardan. So better drive shaft angles, more comfort and better handling. Win win win. Just more work work work.

And here is a photo shop of what it should look like with the 300mm stretch and recentering the load tray.

Now to do the work. Anyone have any tips for stretching the chassis? Some dos and don't that may help?

 

[yOHda]

Late to the party, but I have a really, really short oil filter on my 1uz swap ae86. If all other plans fail post up and I will find the part number.

 

[YODA 88 62]

Frame cutting, mods and welding

I don’t want to poop in anyone’s build thread. For years now here on mud I have been seeing guys who do vertical welds on a frame. Mostly I am talking about the 80-series chassis swaps on 60 & 70 series. Either in shortening or lengthening the frame. I have tried a few times to say, hey you...

forum.ih8mud.com

I've been throwing around the idea of stretching the chassis a bit. The main reason is to help out with those pesky rear drive shaft angles. But a longer wheel bade will also improve the ride and towing stability. I toyed with extending the cab as well, but I'm not a massive fan of the look of a stretched 45 cab. If I have too to get my lexus seats in, I might stretch the cab by a few inches, but not much more than that.

The plan is to stretch the wheel base by 300mm. That will take it from 2625mm wheel base to 2925mm, just half an inch shorter than a true 45s wheel base.

Here is some of the maths on the rear drive shafts that helped me arrive at 300mm extension.

This is as it sits right now. The parallel distance between the pinion and the tcase flange is 620mm and there's a 280mm vertical drop.
View attachment 2925670
That gives me a 24.3° shaft angle. Combined with the 3.5 pinion angle and the 4.5 tcase angle, that gives us this
View attachment 2925672

Basically 20° working angle. A little high, but not huge. Here's how that all changes if I change the wheel base by 300mm...
View attachment 2925671
View attachment 2925673
So much better!! 13° should mean I don't even need a double cardan. So better drive shaft angles, more comfort and better handling. Win win win. Just more work work work.

And here is a photo shop of what it should look like with the 300mm stretch and recentering the load tray.
View attachment 2925675
Now to do the work. Anyone have any tips for stretching the chassis? Some dos and don't that may help?

 

[Vossie]

Late to the party, but I have a really, really short oil filter on my 1uz swap ae86. If all other plans fail post up and I will find the part number.

Thanks for that. I actually got my hands on a 2uz filter housing and that sorted out the angle. I need to redo coolant lines to the oik cooler but it will work perfectly even with the stock filter.

Frame cutting, mods and welding

I don’t want to poop in anyone’s build thread. For years now here on mud I have been seeing guys who do vertical welds on a frame. Mostly I am talking about the 80-series chassis swaps on 60 & 70 series. Either in shortening or lengthening the frame. I have tried a few times to say, hey you...

forum.ih8mud.com

Thanks for that!

 

[Vossie]

Been a bit slow on the build, had to get some work done to fund this thing! But here's a few small jobs done.

Made a front cross member to support the bib hinge.

Then tweaked the bottom left corner of the bib that I had cut to clearance the steering box.
Looks a lot better. A bit of asymmetry going ok but I quite like it.

Then messed around with mocking up the lexus seats in the cab. Realised I didn't need such a big cut out for the trans, so put some steel back in there

Also need a flat floor on the drivers side, and I'm not using the stock fuel tank, so flattened the floor there

Now just need to finish flattening the firewall bump to claim some more space under the dash.

Also got away for a couple of days. Spent some time with the family on Lake Kariba

Should hopefully be getting a MIG machine this week, new to MIG welding, always been a stick guy. Anyone have any tips for what to look for? Gas vs flux core?

 

[05CTD]

Been a bit slow on the build, had to get some work done to fund this thing! But here's a few small jobs done.

Made a front cross member to support the bib hinge.
View attachment 2939461

Then tweaked the bottom left corner of the bib that I had cut to clearance the steering box.
Looks a lot better. A bit of asymmetry going ok but I quite like it.
View attachment 2939462

Then messed around with mocking up the lexus seats in the cab. Realised I didn't need such a big cut out for the trans, so put some steel back in there
View attachment 2939463

Also need a flat floor on the drivers side, and I'm not using the stock fuel tank, so flattened the floor there
View attachment 2939464

Now just need to finish flattening the firewall bump to claim some more space under the dash.

Also got away for a couple of days. Spent some time with the family on Lake Kariba
View attachment 2939465

Should hopefully be getting a MIG machine this week, new to MIG welding, always been a stick guy. Anyone have any tips for what to look for? Gas vs flux core?

Gas for sure. There are lots of choices but if your welding just mild steel straight Co2 will be fine. I generally run Stargon or Blue Shield 8

 

[Vossie]

Gas for sure. There are lots of choices but if your welding just mild steel straight Co2 will be fine. I generally run Stargon or Blue Shield 8

Awesome, thanks for the info. Will have to check if CO2 is available here, I know most guys who use gas use argon, but nice to know what the options are