Frame cutting, mods and welding (1 Viewer)

SNLC

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I don’t want to poop in anyone’s build thread.

For years now here on mud I have been seeing guys who do vertical welds on a frame. Mostly I am talking about the 80-series chassis swaps on 60 & 70 series. Either in shortening or lengthening the frame.

I have tried a few times to say, hey you don’t want to splice that frame with vertical welds but it seems to fall on deaf ears.

You need to be doing 45* angles, cuts and welds when splicing a frame. It is hardly any more complex and is far safer.

Chassis mods is something that has been going on in the hot rod world for decades and decades. Most of the guys who really know what they are doing do a Z cut and splice. This is by far the best method.

So why don’t you want to do a vertical splice and weld? You are creating a stress point by doing this that can crack and fail.

Basic info here,


Now I don’t really care if a person screws up their own Cruiser by doing this. However, I got to share the road and trail with these guys and so do the rest of us. This is serious stuff modifying and splicing a frame, it really should be done right.

I don’t mean to or want to be asinine but come on! It is important to do a frame splice correct. It’s not that hard to just do it in a 45* and it is far stronger. There are countless articles you can read about this and even videos on YouTube explaining it all, the how and the why. So it’s hard for me to understand why people keep doing it. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Cheers
 

SNLC

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As you can see here it is really not that hard to lay it out and get a 45* angle for the cut and splice. This particular one was a stretch so no frame was removed. I am a self taught fabricator and welder by the way.

D82F7252-47A5-4A74-9648-5402C1F1752B.jpeg

1C498426-5C52-408C-AFDE-2A3FFCDA0711.jpeg


For this stretch the frame was sleeved and then capped over the sleeve. Rosette or plug welds also help tie it all together.

046BB05D-74FD-44E3-A061-D599477A1DB8.jpeg

D44ACA7B-7790-460F-9084-0A0769653830.jpeg


This is what you really don’t want to be doing. 🙄

47B41D83-384A-4D36-B769-C0F6EFD8B9BD.jpeg


Cheers
 

TonyP

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As you can see here it is really not that hard to lay it out and get a 45* angle for the cut and splice. This particular one was a stretch so no frame was removed. I am a self taught fabricator and welder by the way.

View attachment 2545414
View attachment 2545418

For this stretch the frame was sleeved and then capped over the sleeve. Rosette or plug welds also help tie it all together.

View attachment 2545424
View attachment 2545422

This is what you really don’t want to be doing. 🙄

View attachment 2545419

Cheers

Tell that bum to wash his pants. Jeeezzz.
 
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Ive been using the Z splices for years but I follow it up with a radii fish plate. It looks like a horizontal diamond (most cases) with rounded edges. 90º welds are a no no. I've suggested this to a couple fellas on this very forum with no reply.
To each his own I suppose.

The holes get rosette welded.
3D031BAF-3386-4F37-81FD-B972939A37E0.jpeg


Lastly, a quality burn-in uphill is all I would recommend for critical welding.
 

SNLC

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Ive been using the Z splices for years but I follow it up with a radii fish plate. It looks like a horizontal diamond (most cases) with rounded edges. 90º welds are a no no. I've suggested this to a couple fellas on this very forum with no reply.
To each his own I suppose.

The holes get rosette welded.
View attachment 2546061

Lastly, a quality burn-in uphill is all I would recommend for critical welding.

Excellent!

I have done fish plating as well. It just depends on the look, some people want it to look like it hasn’t been modified so plates don’t work for that. When I do fish plates, I do diamonds too. If you want to get real techie with it, I have seen running the weld out past the tail of the plate to reduce stress as well. I think this is done more though with repairs.

Cheers
 

LINUS

Waiting for the Great Pumpkin
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I’ve been a cert’d welder & at minimum I did angle splices with internal fish plates & rosettes on all corners of fish plate & a few in the middle.

And if you (whoever is doing frame mods) -don’t arc weld, at minimum IMO 220V MIG & as stated - ‘push’ uphill weld.

And pop for a bottle rental & very minimum .030 solid wire.
Not a flux-core job, set up a wind “hooch” for even the slightest breeze if you’re not indoors.

Kill any big air movers too if you are indoors - you need a real gas shield.

——————————

That one weld is insane - that looks like farmer-weld where they don’t even wirebrush the cow poo off a bucket/loader arm.
 

SNLC

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I’ve been a cert’d welder & at minimum I did angle splices with internal fish plates & rosettes on all corners of fish plate & a few in the middle.

And if you (whoever is doing frame mods) -don’t arc weld, at minimum IMO 220V MIG & as stated - ‘push’ uphill weld.

And pop for a bottle rental & very minimum .030 solid wire.
Not a flux-core job, set up a wind “hooch” for even the slightest breeze if you’re not indoors.

Kill any big air movers too if you are indoors - you need a real gas shield.

——————————

That one weld is insane - that looks like farmer-weld where they don’t even wirebrush the cow poo off a bucket/loader arm.

Coat hanger and a battery? 🤷🏼‍♂️

Cheers
 
Joined
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in the woods
So have you seen any stretched or shortened 80 chassis break from an “improper” modification?
no. but i have seen frame patches with 90* ends break the frame at the welds. the 1st one i saw was actually on my own truck...yes, done by me. so i did some r + d n was schooled the error of my ways. an old gear head i talked to suggested making a diamond fishplate with the sides the length of the vertical face i was patching. also to radius the points a touch. he was of the mindset that weld quality did not keep it from cracking. his words,"used long enough, every f%$king one of them will break on the vertical weld"
 
Joined
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Messages
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in the woods
As you can see here it is really not that hard to lay it out and get a 45* angle for the cut and splice. This particular one was a stretch so no frame was removed. I am a self taught fabricator and welder by the way.

View attachment 2545414
View attachment 2545418

For this stretch the frame was sleeved and then capped over the sleeve. Rosette or plug welds also help tie it all together.

View attachment 2545424
View attachment 2545422

This is what you really don’t want to be doing. 🙄

View attachment 2545419

Cheers
damn! my welds at the age of 13 didn't look that bad!
 
Joined
May 28, 2017
Messages
683
Location
in the woods
Ive been using the Z splices for years but I follow it up with a radii fish plate. It looks like a horizontal diamond (most cases) with rounded edges. 90º welds are a no no. I've suggested this to a couple fellas on this very forum with no reply.
To each his own I suppose.

The holes get rosette welded.
View attachment 2546061

Lastly, a quality burn-in uphill is all I would recommend for critical welding.
please explain why you feel an uphill burn is better. h3ll, i'll move mountains to avoid vertical burns as my best burns are on the flat. my horizontal burns are passable but they can most certainly improve.
 
Joined
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Vertical up deposits more filler metal and penetrates deeper into the parent metal due to the slower travel speed to overcome gravity. With other welding processes such as stick arc welding (SMAW) vertical up is recommended for the same reasons I posted but also keeps the molten slag from contaminating the weld puddle resulting in porosity. It take practice and good machine settings to master good strong and aesthetically pleasing bead. vertical down is fine for non critical welds. Its not how I feel... it's how I certified.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Vertical up deposits more filler metal and penetrates deeper into the parent metal due to the slower travel speed to overcome gravity. With other welding processes such as stick arc welding (SMAW) vertical up is recommended for the same reasons I posted but also keeps the molten slag from contaminating the weld puddle resulting in porosity. It take practice and good machine settings to master good strong and aesthetically pleasing bead. vertical down is fine for non critical welds. Its not how I feel... it's how I certified.
thanks for the explanation. i'm basically a self taught weldor with a couple of night school courses for the weekend warrior. yeah, i know, just enough to make me dangerous.
 

NCFJ

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When I cut and shorten a frame I build a box of either 3/16" or 1/4" plate that slips inside the box frame. I leave a bit of a gap at the cut for the weld to penetrate and rosette welds on all four faces. On the 80 frame the box is 18" long.
 

mudgudgeon

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Vertical up deposits more filler metal and penetrates deeper into the parent metal due to the slower travel speed to overcome gravity. With other welding processes such as stick arc welding (SMAW) vertical up is recommended for the same reasons I posted but also keeps the molten slag from contaminating the weld puddle resulting in porosity. It take practice and good machine settings to master good strong and aesthetically pleasing bead. vertical down is fine for non critical welds. Its not how I feel... it's how I certified.

Does the same apply if using TIG?
 

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