Steering Wander on my 82FJ, help needed!

[merbesfield]

10 year old rusty OME springs(the old ones not Dakar) we don;t even have salt/rust issues up here. The Toyota part # tag on the tie rod is looking better

your spring/shackle are stock, they are pretty flat, ride nice but don't handle worth a darn, bumps/dips will tend to bounce the rig around and make it hard work to keep going down the road straight. (my 45LV is like this....)

if alignment is ruled out....

shocks....unless you just put them on.....assume they are bad and replace

I mentioned the bushing earlier, some wander can be found when they are bad...and they probably are(age not miles). But it sounds like more than you would get from just the bushings. have someone turn(hard) the wheel back and forth and you watch the springs move on the shackle or whatever else you find that clunks around

put the tires at 28-32psi.......they may be at what the say on the sidewall.....which(I am am guessing) 50psi, it will drive like poop(quick steering)

my guess is the backspacing on the wheels is causing the tire to rub, new springs really wont change it, the TRE may be adjusted but it wont be enough.

When you say turn wheel hard, do I do this with wheels on ground or up in the air? I will also adjust tire pressure and look into original wheels. Thinking about getting some OEM wagon wheels and having them powder coated the off white factory color. I have never been big on white wagon wheels but they do go well with the green and white color scheme.

Does a suspension up grade make these old trucks drive that much better than the do now w factory suspension? Assuming they don't wander as it is now doing that is. It's a lot of money for just a 2" lift on a street truck. Yes it looks better, but also want it to drive better more importantly. Unsafe right now and just dumped a ton of cash into PS conversion so not happy.

 

[murf]

heres one for you.

I had a FJ40 in the shop and it was all over the road. The front end was tight but my tech found that the tires were 15 years old, the tires showed no sign of tread separation but he was suspect of them. For a quick test, we did a swap of known new tires and wheel assemblies off another fj40 in the shop. It was like night and day, solved the problem

Check on how old your tires are and maybe someone you know will let you swap over their tires/wheels off their Toyota to test it.

 

[merbesfield]

heres one for you.

I had a FJ40 in the shop and it was all over the road. The front end was tight but my tech found that the tires were 15 years old, the tires showed no sign of tread separation but he was suspect of them. For a quick test, we did a swap of known new tires and wheel assemblies off another fj40 in the shop. It was like night and day, solved the problem

Check on how old your tires are and maybe someone you know will let you swap over their tires/wheels off their Toyota to test it.

That is a very good suggestion. The tires on it when I bought it were really old and hard as rocks. I replaced them w some BFG AT's I had but they were not know to be new by me, but are not old by date issue. They were takeoffs that were like new. Maybe there was a reason they were not on a vehicle and they could be causing the problem? Crap! Now I have to replace the entire suspension and the tires LOL. I don't have ones to swap, but I bet the shop who did Al the work might. Thanks for the tip, I had completely over looked the tire option.

 

[JohnnyC]

I didn't see any mention of wheel bearings... Were they checked?

Friend had a box nova ... It was also all over the road... Was wheel bearings... I don't recall it not going back to center driving however

 

[merbesfield]

I didn't see any mention of wheel bearings... Were they checked?

Friend had a box nova ... It was also all over the road... Was wheel bearings... I don't recall it not going back to center driving however

Yes the shop did check the bearings at my request and gave them a clean bill of health.

 

[lkortbeek]

I've had a couple of cruisers wander down the road. It was always worse on slightly rutted roads. I found if I hit the brakes hardish the truck got squirrelly.
Your description of the behavior sounds similar to me and it sounds like the bushings are pretty much the only thing you haven't checked. Bushings are cheap and easy to install (sometimes not so easy to remove however). You can jack the truck up and secure it on sturdy blocks and then use a jack on the axle to lift it up an down. I am sure there are people here with better experience and knowledge on how to test the bushings, or even search the forum.
As someone else said, the damper may be wrong but that shouldn't affect your wander. I believe it is there to stop wobble. Caster and Camber are set using shims and are not easily adjusted. When they did your alignment they should have given you those specs. You can toe in to get better wheel centering.
My money is on the bushings though.

 

[shawnfj40]

It may be that the shop that replaced all of you steering components did not center your steering box before setting up you steering. The box will have "X" amount of turns. The static setting should put that box in the exact center of its travel and all of the steering links should then be set from that position. If you steering wheel is off center when the box is in the middle of its travel, pull the wheel and center it. Your TRE is rubbing because that link is too long. You will need to shorten that link and then follow downstream and set the next link that will center the travel of your front wheels. When you are set there then set your toe. You could do this or just take it back to the shop that was paid to fix it in the first place and insist that they get it right. I wouldn't let something like that leave my shop without a solution.

 

[Canarias]

or just take it back to the shop that was paid to fix it in the first place and insist that they get it right.

Absolutely

 

[merbesfield]

I am planning on going back to the shop that did the work. They are a stand up operation and I have confidence that they will make good. But, that being said, I don't like being told all is good when I know all is not good and I have gone back twice. But three times is a charm I hope. Before returning tho I am collecting all my info from you guys so I am more educated. I did receive a digital print out of the Allignment, which is in the glove box. I will pull it out and post the info here. This must be resolved. It makes me not want to drive the truck bc of the safety and work involved in keeping it between the lines and that is NOT good!

 

[lcwizard]

Wander is caused 90% of the time by alignment. If the shop doesn't do alignments, take it to an alignment shop. Ignore factory specs. Tell
them to set it up with 2 degrees positive caster and 1/2~1 degree toe in as a start point. Toe in may change, depending on tire width, wear,
rim offset, tie rod end wear etc. Usually if caster is good an improper toe in will generate wobble at certain speeds , usually 25~35 mph.
Do your test runs with the tie rod end clamps loose and carry a pipe wrench or something suitable to adjust the tie rod. Run it up to 55 .
If everything's right, it handles well and no wobble, tighten it all down and you're done. If you get a wobble, get out turn the tie rod one full turn one direction or the other and retest. If it gets worse , turn it back one turn to start and go an additional turn and retest

 

[merbesfield]

I want to be sure I am describing this correctly. I am using the term wander, but let me try to describe what I am experiencing. When I drive down the road, I am constantly having to monitor the steering wheel, like there is play in the movement. Before the PS conversion, I assumed the problem was the manual box bc you could see play between steering wheel input and lack of movement in the steering box arm. Now the steering is still similar in that constant montoring required to keep the truck going straight down the road. When you move the wheel the truck will go in that direction, but the wheel will be waaay past center before the truck is going straight, so you will then bring the wheel back to center once the desired direction is acheived. This is really hard to describe in words! Basically it just feels like you are driving a boat and you are always left right left right etc. Going around curves is a bitch bc you give input and then you have to bring it back and next thing you are going in the wrong direction, just like I described left right left right....

Here are some other pics I took of allignment results, before and after. Also pics showing the aftermarket steering damper. I see where the tab with rubber bushing is on the frame, but where does the drivers side end attach? In Landpimps pic above I cannot tell and on my truck I don't see anything.

 

[merbesfield]

More pics showing the allignment specs before and after and steering arm position. The pic was taken with the steering wheel centered and truck supposedly going straight.

 

[78fj40mg]

I bet your steering damper is toast and it's not OEM.
I had a similar issue changed the damper and steering feels great.

It should look like this:

 

[merbesfield]

Ok, I just figured out where the damper attaches on the center link. The holes was packed with dirt and grease so I could not see it. Yes I am sure the one on the truck is not OEM.

Edit: where is best place to buy a steering damper? Should it be OEM or aftermarket like Old Man Emu or Iron Man?

Also, is this a caster shim? See pic below with red arrow.

 

[78fj40mg]

I'm using Old Man Emu, OEM fit.

 

[Landpimp]

don;t think its a caster shim, if it was it should be on the top of the spring pack not the bottom. I am trying to remember how the OEM leveling shims(used to correct the lean) where placed, not sure if just on the rear or also one on the front

I have always used OME dampers, the OEM one is very very small. My guess is that's a Heco Big Yellow or Monroe from back in the day on there.

 

[Downey]

Ok, I got through all of above, and first and foremost I agree with ShawnFJ40 about steering gear box being centered. When traveling straight forward, gear box has got to have exactly same number of turns to left or right. Evidently power steering pump pressure somehow cares about gear box being centered when not making a turn. If gear box adjusted slightly to left or right, box tries to return to center (translation= steering wanders looking for home base). This is exactly a problem I had with a Saginaw PS conversion.
Next, I don't think brand name of steering stabilizer (or mounting) matters, they're all shot in less than a year when running larger tires.
Totally agree with running higher front tire pressure, especially when towing the rig.

 

[merbesfield]

don;t think its a caster shim, if it was it should be on the top of the spring pack not the bottom. I am trying to remember how the OEM leveling shims(used to correct the lean) where placed, not sure if just on the rear or also one on the front

I have always used OME dampers, the OEM one is very very small. My guess is that's a Heco Big Yellow or Monroe from back in the day on there.

I am guessing Monroe since it came from deep south.

 

[roadstr6]

Check and double check the drag link end at the steering arm for play. Have someone jiggle the steering wheel back and forth while you are under the driver fender paying particular attention to where the steering arm connects to the drag link. This is the very first in a line of joints and linkages that wear. Unfortunately, most people overlook it and go straight to the more expensive (and often unneccesary) fixes. Chances are this joint needs to be rebuilt. It is not difficult to do and is not expensive either. I have even gone as far as to shim the slop out of this joint using two pennies (look up the two penny trick). The joint is comprised of a ball, two half cups that surround the ball, a spring and a threaded cap. It is not a well sealed joint. It gets a constant pounding of water and road dirt and debris. The parts are available to replace it or, as I said, use two pennies. I have a sneaky suspicion that this will fix (or at least help) your problem. I would not worry too much about the stabilizer. It doesn't do much anyway. If everything else is right, you don't even need it.

Oh, and I can tell by looking at your picture that the shop that replaced all the other stuff didn't rebuild this. There is a cotter pin that keeps this mechanism from coming apart. The cotter pin in your pic doesn't look like it's been disturbed in years.

 

[Weber Sarge]

First , that is a Heckethorn steering stabilizer kit , aftermarket . They are not very good , over time they get air in them and develop dead spots - take it off and drive it once . Just be aware that potholes will feed back into the steering wheel with more force than before . With power steering - it shouldn't be as big a deal as it would be with manual steering . Get a correct stock unit if you want , oem is best .

Two , there are some tests you need to perform .

Jack it up and remove the front wheels with the axle solidly supported by jack stands . Cruisers are pretty heavy on the nose , don't use cheap stands . Grab each front hub assembly and rotate all the way through the steering range one at a time - note how they feel . If you feel any tight spots or a "catch" in the range of motion at certain intervals you may need the axle rebuilt - if those trunnion ( or King pin) bearings are severely worn you may be able to feel it as the hubs are turned - it sort of "jitters" . Basically , the bearing races get hammered over time and end up with notches in them which affects steering . Now that you've changed to new parts and steering settings those notches can work against each other - mine did this pretty bad and wandered like an idiot until the axle was rebuilt . Yours from the pics is nice and clean , but you cannot tell how much wear there is inside visually . Testing for worn trunnion bearings is much easier with the tie rods disconnected from the steering arms on the knuckles , just fyi ....

A simple pry bar put through the shackle will allow enough leverage to show if the bushings are shot from side to side . Don't get crazy here and damage the shackles . Same with the main eye bushings on the other end of the springs - tip of bar against the frame and push the springs sideways to check for slop . You can check to see if they are egg-shaped when you lift it up and support the frame with tall stands to allow the axle to drop freely - sometimes you'll get surprised at how far they are worn and not show it .

Most shops don't know how or have experience with solid axles that have bearings to support the knuckles as most use ball joints or bushings . Also , they already look to have missed adjusting the steering linkage properly by your pics - if you can get a factory service manual it's not hard at all , even for someone new to turning wrenches . As said above , there are steps to properly setting the length of the linkage - that is why your tire is rubbing now and did not before the work . If the shop balks at replacing that tie rod boot or joint - they can call me and I'll explain it to them . The factory service manuals are available for download from some very helpful members here - if you don't have a paper copy it's a good idea , can at least print the pages out and use it for ammunition/education for the shop if you don't want to tackle it .

Don't sweat the rear being sagged , it's common from people carrying excessive weight in the back and actually will help with castor angles . I'd be wary about mileage - Cruisers age pretty well at times and it may be over 100,000 - no way to tell since the odometer doesn't have enough digits . Previous owner claims are just that - claims and many times they don't know or give the facts .

Good luck and post any q's ...

Sarge