Starter or Neutral Safety switch (2 Viewers)

[desmocruiser]

To update an older thread and not specific to current issues of wiring etc. just an update to another area to check.

A blown stop light fuse will cause a non start issue similar to the neutral safety switch.

I purchased an 80 with LED brake light bulbs that would blow the fuse, new fuse and bulbs, problem solved.

 

[Malleus]

Reviving an old thread. I'm troubleshooting a no start issue and have ruled out most things and I'm not checking the NSS. I've got the plug disconnected and I'm trying to remove the pins of the two larger wires from the connector. For the life of me I can't get the pins to come out of the connector. Can anyone give me some direction on removing those?

The wire harness repair manual is in the Resources section for download. It has instructions for each type of connector housing and terminal. You'll need to find your housing in the housing section, and then cross reference that number to the housing maintenance section in the front of the manual.

FWIW, if you need a new connector housing, and you buy it from Toyota, it is bare; the terminals are separate and not sold by Toyota. Ballenger Motorsports in VA has them in stock, as well as the rear plugs for the Sumitomo (OEM) waterproof housings.

 

[Cruiser804]

FWIW, if you need a new connector housing, and you buy it from Toyota, it is bare; the terminals are separate and not sold by Toyota. Ballenger Motorsports in VA has them in stock, as well as the rear plugs for the Sumitomo (OEM) waterproof housings.

Toyota doesn't sell the pins themselves but they do sell the pig tails.

 

[Malleus]

The "pigtails" (Toyota lists them as repair wire) are terminals crimped onto 6 inches of wire. You have to connect that wire to the harness somehow; Toyota intended them to be used by the dealership techs to repair a broken wire, not to use them to repin a connector housing. If you used the "repair wire" you'd have a handful of bullet conectors all over your harness. Replacing the terminals and seals when replacing a connector housings retains the original design of the harness.

 

[Box Rocket]

I'm still banging my head against a wall with this no crank, no start issue. I thought I had ruled everything out except for the ignition switch but I installed a new ignition switch today and still no dice.

Here's the rundown of everything that has been done.
New Group31 AGM Battery.
New reman Starter. Have confirmed it functions properly on the bench off the truck.
New Fusible Link
New Ground wire from battery to block
New Ground wire from battery to starter
New OEM Ignition switch
Inspected the NSS. Pulled the plug apart, it was pretty nasty, and cleaned up the NSS side of the plug. Purchased new plug housing and repair wires from Toyota since some have found the plug wires corroded/damaged. I pulled each of the wires out and inspected them and they all looked to be in excellent condition with no corrosion, no broken wires etc. So I put the wires into the new plug housing and plugged it back into the NSS after cleaning it up.

I have bypassed the ignition by running a jumper wire directly from the battery to the starter as a way to check for a voltage drop somewhere between the ignition and the starter. When I do that the solenoid will click loudly and it sounds like the plunger is pushing the starter gear out but maybe not spinning the gear?

No difference trying to start in Park or Neutral.

Have tried jump starting, unsuccessful.

Have checked the ground wires. The one from the battery to the body is good. As mentioned the one from the battery to the block is new as is the one to the starter. The other ground that's near the back underside of the intake manifold is also good.

There are no blown fuses in the entire truck. I've heard some have had a blown taillight fuse or bad brakelight bulb that will cause a no crank condition. I'm not seeing any of that.

I guess I'm wondering now if it's a bad ECU. I supposed the NSS itself could be bad? I still have the repair wires for the NSS also but I really don't think they are the culprit. I'd love to hear any suggestions or other ideas.

This is the original NSS plug, pretty nasty.
Untitled by Adam Tolman, on Flickr

These are the two wires/terminals that typically go bad on the NSS plug. These look perfectly fine to me.
Untitled by Adam Tolman, on Flickr

The rest of the wires looked equally fine even though they aren't part of what would cause a no crank condition.
Untitled by Adam Tolman, on Flickr

The NSS itself was pretty grimey and the inside of the plug didn't look good. A mixture of dirt and dielectric grease.
Untitled by Adam Tolman, on Flickr

Untitled by Adam Tolman, on Flickr

After cleaning up the NSS and plug
Untitled by Adam Tolman, on Flickr

Untitled by Adam Tolman, on Flickr

NSS wires in the new plug housing.
Untitled by Adam Tolman, on Flickr

Untitled by Adam Tolman, on Flickr

 

[NorCalFJ100]

I've had intermittent issues with a NSS on 97 4Runner. Not always an advocate of throwing money at parts to troubleshoot, but it is an item that will go bad at some point. It's also an item that can potentially leave you high n dry. May be worth the few hundred bucks and as a form of PM to throw a new one on there?

Know anyone nearby with a cruiser or 4runner from the same era? You can swap and test.

Hit up @Deathvalleypaul see if he has a used one?

Sorry not much more help here. Let us know what you figure out when you get her

 

[Shipwreck]

Did you open up the NSS and clean the internal contacts as well as the connector?

 

[Cruiser804]

I have bypassed the ignition by running a jumper wire directly from the battery to the starter as a way to check for a voltage drop somewhere between the ignition and the starter. When I do that the solenoid will click loudly and it sounds like the plunger is pushing the starter gear out but maybe not spinning the gear?

Working through this as well. I think it is the starter based on above. You're getting power at the starter but its not turning the motor over. See this thread;

Intermittant Starter Problem

You still might get a click but there's not enough voltage being supplied to actually trigger the starter?! I don't know if that's possible. I also can't rule it out. I'm having a hard time imagining a scenario where you have enough current to push the plunger hard enough to make a clicking...

forum.ih8mud.com

I followed the FSM instructions and had good results like others for 6 months or so. Then the issue came back. I plan to pull the starter and run through the process again with more pressure this time. My current press does not have a gauge and not sure I'm giving it enough. Though, its not clear to me the purpose of the pressure other than holding the contacts in place.

When I previously rebuilt the starter I had not tightered the contacts to spec and when I pull it they were noticeably loose.

 

[Box Rocket]

Did you open up the NSS and clean the internal contacts as well as the connector?

I didn’t open up the NSS.

 

[JoeCova]

I didn’t open up the NSS.

Have you verified that the starter is properly aligned to engage the drive plate? The starter may be installed but the gears may not be engaging.

If your jumper wire from the battery to the starter actually activates the starter then the engine will attempt to crank, assuming it’s engaging.

You can test this by pulling the starter out and simply connecting the jumper to see if it fires.

 

[SUMMIT CRUISERS]

@Box Rocket
"I have bypassed the ignition by running a jumper wire directly from the battery to the starter as a way to check for a voltage drop somewhere between the ignition and the starter. When I do that the solenoid will click loudly and it sounds like the plunger is pushing the starter gear out but maybe not spinning the gear?"

In this situation, if starter does not crank, then starter issue or big Positive wire not supplying enough juice to starter.

Secondly, Not sure it's the same on your 95 but I've seen many issues on 94's with the barrel NSS connection plug located right below the Pesky heater hose.

 

[Box Rocket]

Have you verified that the starter is properly aligned to engage the drive plate? The starter may be installed but the gears may not be engaging.

If your jumper wire from the battery to the starter actually activates the starter then the engine will attempt to crank, assuming it’s engaging.

You can test this by pulling the starter out and simply connecting the jumper to see if it fires.

I have done this with this starter out of the truck. Putting power to the starter out of the truck it functions properly.

 

[Box Rocket]

@Box Rocket
"I have bypassed the ignition by running a jumper wire directly from the battery to the starter as a way to check for a voltage drop somewhere between the ignition and the starter. When I do that the solenoid will click loudly and it sounds like the plunger is pushing the starter gear out but maybe not spinning the gear?"

In this situation, if starter does not crank, then starter issue or big Positive wire not supplying enough juice to starter.

Secondly, Not sure it's the same on your 95 but I've seen many issues on 94's with the barrel NSS connection plug located right below the Pesky heater hose.

Thanks. I've wondered the same and I will probably pull the starter today and inspect the contacts for proper alignment. As for getting enough "juice", I've tried jump starting from another truck, and I've also had the AGM on a trickle charger and it is at 14.2v. I also replaced the big wire to the starter. So I'm scratching my head on this.

For the NSS plug, yes I've been looking at that but it's a different plug on the 95. It's not the round plug under the PHH like you mentioned. On the 95-97 it's the plug in my above photos and is located on the right side of the trans.

 

[JoeCova]

I have done this with this starter out of the truck. Putting power to the starter out of the truck it functions properly.

But did you verify proper gear contact with the drive plate.

If your starter works with the jumper then the motor will physically crank.

 

[Box Rocket]

But did you verify proper gear contact with the drive plate.

If your starter works with the jumper then the motor will physically crank.

With the starter out of the truck and putting power directly to it, the solenoid works and the gear slides out and spins. With it in the truck and putting a jumper wire directly to the starter I can hear the solenoid and what sounds like the gear pushing out but I can't hear the gear spin (obviously since if it was spinning it would crank the motor).

 

[JoeCova]

With the starter out of the truck and putting power directly to it, the solenoid works and the gear slides out and spins. With it in the truck and putting a jumper wire directly to the starter I can hear the solenoid and what sounds like the gear pushing out but I can't hear the gear spin (obviously since if it was spinning it would crank the motor).

Do you hear a clicking or grinding when you apply the jumper? Is this an OEM Reman starter? Some remanned starters have an issue with the Bendix engaging too early before locking into the drive/flex plate.

 

[SUMMIT CRUISERS]

Thanks. I've wondered the same and I will probably pull the starter today and inspect the contacts for proper alignment. As for getting enough "juice", I've tried jump starting from another truck, and I've also had the AGM on a trickle charger and it is at 14.2v. I also replaced the big wire to the starter. So I'm scratching my head on this.

For the NSS plug, yes I've been looking at that but it's a different plug on the 95. It's not the round plug under the PHH like you mentioned. On the 95-97 it's the plug in my above photos and is located on the right side of the

I didn’t see where you had swapped out the positive battery cable.

Ok. Gotta be the starter. I purchased a high output one a few years back for our 94 at OReillys and that thing cranks so fast like none I’ve every heard. Highly recommend. It is smaller in size than factory, but gets it.

 

[Box Rocket]

Do you hear a clicking or grinding when you apply the jumper? Is this an OEM Reman starter? Some remanned starters have an issue with the Bendix engaging too early before locking into the drive/flex plate.

I'm hearing just a click. No grinding like if the gear was spinning but not fully meshing with the gear in the truck. The Starter I have is a Denso (Autozone) reman.

 

[Malleus]

I'm hearing just a click. No grinding like if the gear was spinning but not fully meshing with the gear in the truck. The Starter I have is a Denso (Autozone) reman.

How old is the starter? FWIW, a bench test will pass a solenoid that won't engage in the truck. I've had this happen in the past. The only solution is to rebuild, or replace, the solenoid.

 

[JoeCova]

How old is the starter? FWIW, a bench test will pass a solenoid that won't engage in the truck. I've had this happen in the past. The only solution is to rebuild, or replace, the solenoid.

Sounds like solenoid to me. He could try a hammer on it.