Intermittant Starter Problem

[gummycarbs]

You still might get a click but there's not enough voltage being supplied to actually trigger the starter?!

I don't know if that's possible. I also can't rule it out. I'm having a hard time imagining a scenario where you have enough current to push the plunger hard enough to make a clicking sound, yet somehow not hard enough to make contact sufficient to pass enough current for the starter to spin. The only way I can see that happening is if it only contacts one contact, due to poorly seated contacts or the plunger somehow being slightly cocked at an angle.

In my opinion, you're either going to get no click because there's insufficient current to plunge the plunger (excessive resistance in the wiring or a bad battery), or you have messed up contacts preventing the plunger from seating against both.

 

[jonheld]

Keep in mind that the starter solenoid doesn't really make a "click" sound when pulling in. It's more of a very solid "thump" that can easily be heard from the driver's seat. If you've ever forgotten to hook up the starter motor positive wire to the battery terminal and tried to start, as I have done more times than I care to admit, you know that sound well. It's usually followed by a "duh" as my head hits the steering wheel.

 

[Cruiser804]

The circuit feeding the starter solenoid has to go through all of these steps:

View attachment 3114737

That's quite a bit of wire, many terminal connections, and the Neutral Safety Switch. Mild corrosion over the years can lead to resistance that prevents sufficient current. De-Oxit and silicone dielectric grease are your friends.

When replacing the contacts, you're supposed to press them down with over 200 pounds of force and then tighten down the nuts:

View attachment 3114739

I believe that the contacts in my rebuilt Denso weren't pressed down according to the FSM when they were installed, because they were worn very unevenly. Additionally, the lip around the plunger that bridges the contacts was *extremely* thin compared to a brand new Toyota plunger, which seemed like unlikely wear for a fairly new starter. Edit: I mixed up the timeline. It was around a year between installing the reman Denso starter and the first time I had a no-start condition. It was very intermittent and was fixed every time with a light smack on the end of the starter housing with a hammer. The frequency of no-start events increased and I finally replaced the contacts around March 2021 with a Dorman kit I had laying. I got around to installing a new Toyota plunger around February 2022. So, the plunger wear wasn't excessive, but I still think that the contacts weren't seated according to the FSM when it was remanufactured.

Ahhhh ok. I like where this is going. Glad I haven't installed the rebuilt started yet.

 

[Cruiser804]

Dumb question, how does one determine how much force the press is creating?

 

[gummycarbs]

View attachment 3118302
Dumb question, how does one determine how much force the press is creating?

You need a pressure gauge if you want to be precise. The FSM gives the formula to calculate the force from the pressure and the ram diameter.

 

[Cruiser804]

You need a pressure gauge if you want to be precise. The FSM gives the formula to calculate the force from the pressure and the ram diameter.

LOL Saw the but I have no idea what it means. Can it be swagged? I set the starter in the press, and cranked the press until it made contact with the ram. Once it was set in place and then gave it 3-4 more cranks. Then tightened the contact bolts to spec. But really I have no idea what kind of pressure that applied.

 

[Cruiser804]

Installed the stater last week and so far no issues. But that was the case with the last starter. However, when I checked the contacts on the starter I removed (and previously replaced the contacts and plunger) they were loose but still in good condition. Seems pretty obvious what the issue with the last starter was, loose contacts.

We'll see how the current one goes.

 

[SHREG]

BTT. Fusible link solved my issue. So far.

 

[Fj80Ringo]

Ohhhh man, I have one for all of you.......
I was performing a compression test on a 1993 FZJ80 with 247K on the clock. I checked compression on all 6 cylinders but did it when the engine was cold and dry. I talked to my brother and he suggested I do it "wet" so I added a small amount of oil to each cylinder and began again from cylinder 1. When I was cranking the engine over I began hearing a strange sound while the engine was cranking. The sound seemed to be coming from the driver side of the engine and sounded like a low moan or a growl. Not a sexy sound. The engine was cranking noticeably slower also. I thought my battery could be running low since I had been cranking the engine quite a bit. I stopped at cylinder 4 and swapped out a fully charged battery. When I put in the fully charged battery and turned the ignition, I could hear the starter spinning but it was not engaging the fly wheel, just making a whirring sound. I did a little reading and changed the fusible link. No juice. I checked the grounds and cables to make sure all were nice and tight. I found no obvious corrosion either. I bought a denso reman starter thinking I may have just smoked my old starter. I installed the new one. Just a whirring sound with the new starter. I am stumped.

Maybe I got something hot when cranking the engine so much while doing the compression test. I sure could use some help with this amigos. Thanks

 

[COS80]

What kind of press works for this contact job? I'm getting the click /no start more and more frequently. The starter is $1,300 on amayama!

Also, where can I find section ST (starter)? My copy of the manual is missing the whole section.

 

[calokie]

What kind of press works for this contact job? I'm getting the click /no start more and more frequently. The starter is $1,300 on amayama!

Also, where can I find section ST (starter)? My copy of the manual is missing the whole section.

try replace your electrical cables including your ground wires
FZJ80 Cable upgrade - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/fzj80-cable-upgrade.539225/

 

[COS80]

try replace your electrical cables including your ground wires
FZJ80 Cable upgrade - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/fzj80-cable-upgrade.539225/

Already done.

 

[Malleus]

What kind of press works for this contact job? I'm getting the click /no start more and more frequently. The starter is $1,300 on amayama!

Also, where can I find section ST (starter)? My copy of the manual is missing the whole section.

The manual is in the Resources section.

FWIW, I've rebuilt a couple of these, and I've never used a press. The service manual is referring to an arbor press, but the illustration is a hydraulic press. I can get 200 pounds leaning on it.

 

[fjbj40]

My guess is the 200lbs ensures the deck height of the contacts are even.

If they are not both exactly the same angle when they are manufactured then installing them like that would still allow the plunger too make it’s thump. But the height of the contacts which the plunger disc hits are different. Therefore one is touching and the other is not.

So you have the dreaded thump but no power goes through the plunger disc into the opposing contact so no motor rotation.

 

[COS80]

The manual is in the Resources section.

Awesome, I've never clicked through to the last page, where the complete manual lives. Weird that it's not the first link of them all, but whatever, now I finally have it.

 

[60 toy ota]

Ohhhh man, I have one for all of you.......
I was performing a compression test on a 1993 FZJ80 with 247K on the clock. I checked compression on all 6 cylinders but did it when the engine was cold and dry. I talked to my brother and he suggested I do it "wet" so I added a small amount of oil to each cylinder and began again from cylinder 1. When I was cranking the engine over I began hearing a strange sound while the engine was cranking. The sound seemed to be coming from the driver side of the engine and sounded like a low moan or a growl. Not a sexy sound. The engine was cranking noticeably slower also. I thought my battery could be running low since I had been cranking the engine quite a bit. I stopped at cylinder 4 and swapped out a fully charged battery. When I put in the fully charged battery and turned the ignition, I could hear the starter spinning but it was not engaging the fly wheel, just making a whirring sound. I did a little reading and changed the fusible link. No juice. I checked the grounds and cables to make sure all were nice and tight. I found no obvious corrosion either. I bought a denso reman starter thinking I may have just smoked my old starter. I installed the new one. Just a whirring sound with the new starter. I am stumped.

Maybe I got something hot when cranking the engine so much while doing the compression test. I sure could use some help with this amigos. Thanks

What's the update on this? it almost sounds like you hydro locked the engine and cracked your flexplate. bit of an extreme scenario but you also have very odd symptoms. Just for kicks and giggles, pull your transmission inspection cover off and see if the flex plate is spinning with the starter. If it is, but our engine isn't turning, that's likely what happened.

 

[COS80]

I completed my starter repair today. The whole job was rather easy, and the starter works like new. I clamped it down with one of those quick clamps and the old plunger.

I was disappointed to find that it's not the factory starter, and it wasn't properly rebuilt - one of the terminals was loose, and it was missing that paper gasket and an o-ring, and they obviously skipped the clamping step for the contacts, because one was worn much worse than the other. It's still really strong, though, so it should serve me well for another good, long time.

Thanks again for the tip on the complete manual, @Malleus !

 

[concretejungle]

I completed my starter repair today. The whole job was rather easy, and the starter works like new. I clamped it down with one of those quick clamps and the old plunger.

I was disappointed to find that it's not the factory starter, and it wasn't properly rebuilt - one of the terminals was loose, and it was missing that paper gasket and an o-ring, and they obviously skipped the clamping step for the contacts, because one was worn much worse than the other. It's still really strong, though, so it should serve me well for another good, long time.

Thanks again for the tip on the complete manual, @Malleus !

report back in about a year and let us know if it's still cranking.

 

[COS80]

report back in about a year and let us know if it's still cranking.

Are you suggesting that it won't be?

 

[concretejungle]

Yes, unfortunately. That's just my take. I've been chasing intermittent starter issues for many years. I've rebuilt two, they work great for a little while and then stop working. Replace the starter, it works the longest and then stops one day. I"ve replaced the wires to and from the starter. The only thing I have not replaced yet is the ignition.