Starter Failure? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Gretsch
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Gretsch
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The issue is brought the old wiring to the ignition switch, the old ignition switch, the old wiring from the ignition switch to the starter you can loose amps to the solenoid on the starter.
I had a new starter, all new battery cables and main grounds, and I mean ALL new, and still had issues. Relay made an instant improvement and I now install them on all vintage Cruisers. Do the relay and check/replace/repair all the battery cables first.
As for buying a new starter just buy the cheapest one you can find a DC motor is a DC motor unless you want to pay extra for the magic pixie dust Toyota sprinkles on their parts.
I had a new starter, all new battery cables and main grounds, and I mean ALL new, and still had issues. Relay made an instant improvement and I now install them on all vintage Cruisers. Do the relay and check/replace/repair all the battery cables first.
As for buying a new starter just buy the cheapest one you can find a DC motor is a DC motor unless you want to pay extra for the magic pixie dust Toyota sprinkles on their parts.
@cruisermatt
Where did you tap in for the starter relay you added? Right near the starter or?
Where did you tap in for the starter relay you added? Right near the starter or?
Gretsch
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- #25
OK got it. I'll try the cables and borrowed starter first. I am trying to keep this cruiser as OEM as I can so I may still end up splurging for Toyota pixie dust. Maybe the cables and borrowed starter will work out. And if not I have a relay idea to fix it with. Thanks.
Just bought a denso reman starter for $81 to my door. Arrived yesterday and installing tomorrow. The guy has two more, ask for the denso ones as he has many remans. No affiliation, buy at your own risk.
Starter Fits: Toyota Land Cruiser 1982 to 1992 6cly 4.0Liter 4.2Liter 1 warranty | eBay
Starter Fits: Toyota Land Cruiser 1982 to 1992 6cly 4.0Liter 4.2Liter 1 warranty | eBay
- Joined
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- 14,277
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- www.cruisermatts.com
Yes. I bolted it right on the firewall about 8” from the starter. I ran 12awg wire from the positive big lug (positive battery cable) on the starter to the relay, thrn the same 12awg from the relay back to the starter solenoid. The wire from the ignition triggers the relay. Short ground wire from relay to the bolt the relay hangs from. It can be done very neatly.
John McVicker
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Here is a pic of where I mounted mine. In my case the yellow wire went from pin #30 on the relay directly to the pos side of the battery and fused with 15 amp fuse.
EDIT: Wouldn't be a bad idea to put the fuse closer to the battery.
As for buying a new starter just buy the cheapest one you can find a DC motor is a DC motor unless you want to pay extra for the magic pixie dust Toyota sprinkles on their parts.
I put 5 NAPA-reman starters on my FJ60 in the mid-90s in 2.5 years. I finally got my money back, and I replaced them with one Denso reman from the dealer (cheaper than NAPA, just to add insult to injury), and it lasted until the truck was totaled by the next owner. The Denso starter also did not sound like it was full of sand when you cranked the engine. I think that speaks for what brand of reman you should seek.
I put 5 NAPA-reman starters on my FJ60 in the mid-90s in 2.5 years. I finally got my money back, and I replaced them with one Denso reman from the dealer (cheaper than NAPA, just to add insult to injury), and it lasted until the truck was totaled by the next owner. The Denso starter also did not sound like it was full of sand when you cranked the engine. I think that speaks for what brand of reman you should seek.
Gretsch
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- #31
Yeah if I end up getting a starter I will most likely get a denso reman'd one. I have just been too burned by aftermarket parts on other vehicles to start adding non-oem to this truck and take a chance of having to replace them over and over.
I just got back from getting an O'Reily's aftermarket starter from @SgtChase he allowed me to borrow/use if needed to get my truck to a weekend Overlander's meet he is putting on. He handed it to me and said basically 'it will last you about a year'. He, BTW, has a sweet 2FE H55F equipped tan 60 series. Rebuilt the motor himself. Super cool setup and great guy. Thanks again @SgtChase for the hookup.
@John McVicker I can prolly figure out the wiring, but any chance you have a wiring diagram and specs handy for the relay setup in case my cable replacement still does not do the trick? Thanks for posting the photo of your setup.
John McVicker
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@Robert Franzke I have no diagram but this should do it for you if you go this direction. Buy a good relay at any FLAPS for $10 or go to Amazon & get 5 for $25 or so.
The relays will have numbers on the pins. Wire the pins as follows:
A) pin 30 directly to battery pos. 12g, fused @ 15 amps
B) pin 85 to a good ground. 14g is good. I used the bolt holding the relay to the firewall
C) pin 86 to the wire you pulled off the solenoid on the top of starter. (This is your trigger). 14g is good
D) pin 87 to the male lead on the solenoid that is now exposed that you removed in step C. 12g.
If your relay has 87A, it is unused in this application.
The relays will have numbers on the pins. Wire the pins as follows:
A) pin 30 directly to battery pos. 12g, fused @ 15 amps
B) pin 85 to a good ground. 14g is good. I used the bolt holding the relay to the firewall
C) pin 86 to the wire you pulled off the solenoid on the top of starter. (This is your trigger). 14g is good
D) pin 87 to the male lead on the solenoid that is now exposed that you removed in step C. 12g.
If your relay has 87A, it is unused in this application.
Last edited:
Gretsch
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- #33
@John McVicker that is perfect. Thanks. I'll see what I get after replacing the battery cables and if needed follow the above instructions. Awesome info. Thanks for the help.
Gretsch
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- #34
So got the new cables on. No luck on the starter working now so I guess I am replacing that as well.
Couple of things. Is there any grease or anything that needs to be put on the starter gears, or just put it in as is? And whats the trick to getting this bloody wire boot off the positive side of the starter? Been fighting with this thing all morning and its still not budged. Ridiculous. Thanks in advance for the replies.
Couple of things. Is there any grease or anything that needs to be put on the starter gears, or just put it in as is? And whats the trick to getting this bloody wire boot off the positive side of the starter? Been fighting with this thing all morning and its still not budged. Ridiculous. Thanks in advance for the replies.
John McVicker
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No grease necessary. Removing that boot is a major pain, I just manhandled it. Have not tried this but this might help, warm the boot up with a hair dryer or a heat gun.
If someone has a proven way of getting this buger off, I'm all ears.
EDIT: disconnect the battery first...important!
If someone has a proven way of getting this buger off, I'm all ears.
EDIT: disconnect the battery first...important!
Gretsch
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- #36
Ooh nice idea. I'll try that. Thankyou.
I forgot to ask this as well. The new cables require I put a lug on the battery end of the fusible links. The battery clamp is of a different type from stock, and has a post on it for connecting accessories to the battery. That wire is quite frayed so wanted to cut the frayed bit off and tap into some new wire with which to secure the lug. Not add wire to it, but just cutting off the frayed bit, stripping it back a bit and using that wire for the lug. This will have the effect of shortening the battery end of the fusible link wire slightly. There are no ill effects for doing this right? Making the fusible links more prone to blowing or anything now that the wire would be shorter?
I forgot to ask this as well. The new cables require I put a lug on the battery end of the fusible links. The battery clamp is of a different type from stock, and has a post on it for connecting accessories to the battery. That wire is quite frayed so wanted to cut the frayed bit off and tap into some new wire with which to secure the lug. Not add wire to it, but just cutting off the frayed bit, stripping it back a bit and using that wire for the lug. This will have the effect of shortening the battery end of the fusible link wire slightly. There are no ill effects for doing this right? Making the fusible links more prone to blowing or anything now that the wire would be shorter?
WD40 and warmth.
Gretsch
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- #38
OK got this knocked out. The heat trick worked great. Came right off after that. So thanks. I replaced all the power cables and got the aftermarket starter in. Fired her up and she started right up. Was really speedy too. Much more so than I was used to. I tried to start it several times. Several times the starter would run but it did not sound like the gear kicked out. Then a couple of times it sounded like the gear kicked out after the starter began to run. So spinning starter motor, then clunk as the gear engages and turnover engine. I cannot imagine this is good for the flywheel. Do these things have to seat or something? Or is this symptomatic of needing the relay setup @John McVicker mentioned? Or the result of a crap aftermarket starter?
Is there any chance the ignition key lock is worn out and the solenoid is not getting enough juice through it? In that maybe I could replace the key lock and get it to work better? Not trying to be difficult here, but was trying to keep her as OEM as I can. Thanks all for the replies.
Is there any chance the ignition key lock is worn out and the solenoid is not getting enough juice through it? In that maybe I could replace the key lock and get it to work better? Not trying to be difficult here, but was trying to keep her as OEM as I can. Thanks all for the replies.
John McVicker
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You said 'I tried to start it several times', not sure what you are saying happened after that. Explain again your symptoms. Easier to explain when talking face to face I know.
And no, the starter does not have to seat in. When you turn the key to 'start', the solenoid gets 12v, kicks in and turns the flywheel. Let off on the key and the solenoid gets no 12v and the starter gears immediately disengage. (If all is working properly)
And no, the starter does not have to seat in. When you turn the key to 'start', the solenoid gets 12v, kicks in and turns the flywheel. Let off on the key and the solenoid gets no 12v and the starter gears immediately disengage. (If all is working properly)
Gretsch
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Yes sorry was a little vague. I started the truck multiple times to test out what I had done. Went like this:
I must have done this maybe 10 times. Would get different variations of the starter engaging properly and turning the engine over when it starts, or starter motor running but not engaging the flywheel and the engine not turning over, or starter motor running but then a split second later engaging the flywheel, etc. Its like the solenoid that throws the gear teeth out there is sticking somehow. Old starter was doing same sort of thing, except it got to the point where it sounded like the teeth were getting bound up somehow and stopping the motor from turning. Like the starter is trying to turn a seized engine. Like a saw that's stuck in wood and can no longer turn. At the end of my testing it seemed to start the truck properly more times than not. Dunno what the deal is. Got cold for around here overnight so maybe the starter was just cold from sitting in the garage overnight. Maybe its just crap aftermarket. Maybe its not getting enough juice and the relay mod is warranted. Not sure.
I am not sure how the starter motor could turn without the gear teeth magnetized and stuck out there to contact the flywheel unless its just sticking or flywheel is missing teeth or something. Doesn't the solenoid throw the teeth out there as well as activate the electric motor. How could they operate independently? Just wondering if maybe a new ignition switch would help. Thanks for the replies.
- First start sounded like the starter motor turned, and then the starter gear jumped out and caught the flywheel. Almost as if the gear teeth were sticking or something. Once the gear engaged the started turned the engine really much faster than usual. Tells me the new wiring is much better than before. Let engine warm up, then shut it down.
- Decided to test starter again. Hit the key, this time the starter motor turned but the gear did not engage the flywheel. Engine did not turn over, but I could hear the starter motor turning. Sounded like Dremel tool running, not quit as high pitched as a Dremel but just the sound of an electric motor at high RPM.
- Tried to start again, this time I could here the starter motor spin, engine does not turn over, then a split second later the gear engaged the flywheel and the engine turns over and starts. Sounded like the motor starts moving before the gears are engaged with the flywheel. Its a pretty violent sound when the gear teeth connect with the flywheel with the motor already spinning.
I must have done this maybe 10 times. Would get different variations of the starter engaging properly and turning the engine over when it starts, or starter motor running but not engaging the flywheel and the engine not turning over, or starter motor running but then a split second later engaging the flywheel, etc. Its like the solenoid that throws the gear teeth out there is sticking somehow. Old starter was doing same sort of thing, except it got to the point where it sounded like the teeth were getting bound up somehow and stopping the motor from turning. Like the starter is trying to turn a seized engine. Like a saw that's stuck in wood and can no longer turn. At the end of my testing it seemed to start the truck properly more times than not. Dunno what the deal is. Got cold for around here overnight so maybe the starter was just cold from sitting in the garage overnight. Maybe its just crap aftermarket. Maybe its not getting enough juice and the relay mod is warranted. Not sure.
I am not sure how the starter motor could turn without the gear teeth magnetized and stuck out there to contact the flywheel unless its just sticking or flywheel is missing teeth or something. Doesn't the solenoid throw the teeth out there as well as activate the electric motor. How could they operate independently? Just wondering if maybe a new ignition switch would help. Thanks for the replies.
