Starter Failure? (1 Viewer)

[John McVicker]

Maybe try this...just to see if you get different results:

Hook up a remote starter and start it a bunch of times.

If you don't have a remote starter you can pick one up for $15-20. Has 2 leads, hook one up to pos post of battery and the other to the starter solenoid. At least then you can determine if it's bad wiring or not. And it's a good tool to have if you don't have one.

 

[Godwin]

You can by pass all the ignition wiring and test the starter by disconnecting the wire on the solenoid on the starter and plugging in a wire long enough to reach the battery. Touch this wiring to the + on the battery and see how the starter behaves.

 

[Gretsch]

disconnecting the wire on the solenoid on the starter and plugging in a wire long enough to reach the battery.

So to confirm you mean the trigger wire here right? Not the heavy positive power cable on the starter. Run a wire off the trigger wire connector on the starter up to the battery leaving the heavy power cables on the starter in place?

 

[John McVicker]

Yes & no...you almost have it. Do this:

A) pull the trigger wire off of the solenoid. (Once it's pulled off, you will not use it again for this test)

B) hook a wire up to the male connection now exposed from removing the trigger wire.

C) take that new wire up to the pos side of the battery.

Each time you touch the pos side the engine should crank. Easiest to use the remote starter as described in post 41.

 

[Godwin]

So to confirm you mean the trigger wire here right? Not the heavy positive power cable on the starter. Run a wire off the trigger wire connector on the starter up to the battery leaving the heavy power cables on the starter in place?

Yes. All that's needed is one wire. It's been a few years since I did this and I think I crimped a spade connector to the end that plugged into the starter. Yes, leave the heavy battery cable in place.

I was having starter issues on one the 60s and actually used this method to start the Cruiser until I wired in a relay.

 

[Gretsch]

OK thanks @John McVicker and @Godwin for this idea. I will try to test this using one of the methods posted and see what I get. Assuming either bypass reliably starts the truck, the relay mod should then fix things permanently correct? It sounds I am headed there anyway or faced with tracking down the wiring that controls this from the factory and dealing with it which does not sound like fun. I'll opt for the relay. Thanks again guys for the help.

 

[John McVicker]

The symptoms that you described could also be a lame rebuilt starter. But the test will help you define whether it's a lame rebuild or 30+ year old wiring. Right now it could be either.

 

[John McVicker]

@Robert Franzke do not get confused. Jim & I are suggesting the exact same procedure...just using slightly different tools.

 

[Gretsch]

Yes Understood @John McVicker. If either test you guys have proposed sees consistency with the starter working, it would point to the trucks wiring as the cause of issues when using the key which the relay fix would solve. If I were to put a remote starter on it to test and the starter acts inconsistent, then we can assume something is wrong with the starter itself and not the trucks wiring at which time I would probably order an OEM re-man'ed unit to replace the O-Reilys one. Sound right?

Incidentally, starter worked fine all day yesterday with multiple starts and no issues. I may let this ride as is for a bit, and then if things become inconsistent again, will run the proposed tests to see where the fault lies. Really appreciate the replies and starter testing ideas. Gives me a lot to go on. Thanks.

 

[John McVicker]

Yes. This test will eliminate, one way or the other your starter. If it's bad, this test will show it. Now you could also have bad wiring too. But it's not too likely you have both issues at the same time.

 

[Gretsch]

So I spoke too soon. Got in the truck today and it did its starter gear hitting flywheel dance again. I had the old starter tested. Tested good but sounded terrible like it was coming apart. While there I picked up a remote starter setup. Did not have time today to do much more than that and the starter in the truck was working fine the rest of the day so had I tested it, it would have just worked. I'll try and work that out tomorrow perhaps.

Any value in just trying to clean the trigger wire contacts? Would an intermittent connection on the trigger wire cause the symptoms I am seeing with the starter gear not always engaging properly? Starter Solenoid is just a magnetic switch right? So you apply power to the solenoid via the trigger wire, which engages the gear to the flywheel and applies power to the motor and starts the electric motor turning. Just a thought. Sorry for dragging this thread out here but thanks for the input.

 

[John McVicker]

Yes it's always good to clean up electrical contacts. In this case you've got a female going on to a male contact. Make sure all is clean & snug.

And here's a tip for doing the test with the remote starter. They usually have a big alligator clip that will easily clip to the pos post. The other lead will be too large to touch the male contact of the solenoid. Put a small alligator clip on the solenoid contact & then it will be easy for the remote to clip to that.

 

[Gretsch]

Awesome, John, you read my mind. I was just typing out to confirm the wiring on the remote starter idea. Now I don't have to. Thanks.

And when doing this, am I wanting to actually start the engine or just run the starter? Like turn key to run position and hit the remote starter button to have the engine start? Or just run the starter without the key turned on?

I have to say with these new battery cables on here, this thing fires right up now. Almost too fast. Super cool.

 

[John McVicker]

What I would do is actually start it a bunch of times...to see if you get any failures. If the starter is good and you use the remote starter you should not have any click click or failer to ignite. Never...not once. (just don't do it so frequently that the starter gets hot)

I would test it multiple times over several days in order to be comfortable with your data.

 

[John McVicker]

@Robert Franzke just thought of this. Hook everything up as described, but before you push the button on the remote starter, pull the wire from your coil. Do your testing with the coil wire removed. This will keep the engine from actually running.

No need to actually start/run the vehicle. Push the button, the starter will engage each time you push and disengage when you release the button, but with the coil wire removed the engine won't actually run.

You can do this multiple times in a row, no need to actually start the engine. You know it works, we need to test the starter.

 

[Gretsch]

OK thanks John. I'll try this.

So forgive my ignorance, but would just keeping the key off allow me to run the starter with the remote without starting the engine? Or does the key need to be on with the coil unhooked to run it without starting it? I have not yet had time to try this idea to see how it works but hope to today at lunch.

 

[John McVicker]

With the coil wire unattached the engine will turn over but will not start with the key off OR on.

 

[Gretsch]

OK finally got time to do this tonight. Ran a wire down to the starter trigger connector. Took factory trigger wire off and connected my new wire to it. Ran other end up to the battery. Connected one lead of the remote starter to the battery positive post, and the other lead to the wire I ran up to the battery(guessing guage is irrelevant here, but used some trailer lighting wire). I hit the remote starter button and it made that loud grinding sound trying to engage the flywheel. Hit it again and it did the same thing, but then started cranking the engine. Kept hitting the button with rests in between to keep starter cool and it never did that noise again. Seemed to start fine after that. Seems to be just when its cold this happens and then its good to go. I might take this thing off and hit the gear with some dry lube or something unless someone says that's a bad idea. See if it works any better.

 

[Gretsch]

Just as a follow-up to this, the aftermarket starter just never worked right. Periodic grinding or starter motor turning with no engine turn over. I gave up on it and purchased a Toyota OEM Reman'd unit from Toyota of McKinney. Look at that pretty red label:

Installed it this morning and the truck started right up. No grinding or odd motor spinning nonsense.

I cannot tell you how many times I have been burned like this with aftermarket stuff. I know a lot of folks here don't believe in spending the extra cash on the Toyota OEM parts, but this is a perfect example of why, if available, I always will. It just works. With a slight discount at the counter plus core exchange, I think all in I am at like $200. But the next time it needs replacing, I doubt I'll be the guy doing it. Again thanks for all the replies and the help. I am good to go now.