Any of the big brands like Ritchie, JB or Robinair make good equipment.
A/C servicing; vacuum, oil and charge system? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter 2001LC
- Start date
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^^^^^^ Good detective work. You've made definite progress.
I wouldn't be too afraid of an inexpensive Vacuum pump (as long as the valve(s) work correctly. But you'll want a manifold/gauge set that you can trust. They don't have to be super expensive, just buy from a reputable manufacturer and use good hoses and fittings.
'MasterCool' is sold just about everywhere and there are some inexpensive (but reliable) sets to be had.
I use YellowJacket equipment, but you don't need Pro-Quality pumps and manifolds for occasional Auto A/C work. You DO need equipment that doesn't leak and is reasonably accurate. I would prefer a used set of high quality gauges over a new set of lesser quality. I bet your local Pawn Shop has a set for not much money.
Keep us updated...you have had some set backs, but are doing well getting it sorted out.
I wouldn't be too afraid of an inexpensive Vacuum pump (as long as the valve(s) work correctly. But you'll want a manifold/gauge set that you can trust. They don't have to be super expensive, just buy from a reputable manufacturer and use good hoses and fittings.
'MasterCool' is sold just about everywhere and there are some inexpensive (but reliable) sets to be had.
I use YellowJacket equipment, but you don't need Pro-Quality pumps and manifolds for occasional Auto A/C work. You DO need equipment that doesn't leak and is reasonably accurate. I would prefer a used set of high quality gauges over a new set of lesser quality. I bet your local Pawn Shop has a set for not much money.
Keep us updated...you have had some set backs, but are doing well getting it sorted out.
I have a CPS blackmax manifold with their noleak valves. Excellent manifold set with very long hoses.
I guess we are lucky that we have no HF. At least I won't have to resist the temptation.
I guess we are lucky that we have no HF. At least I won't have to resist the temptation.
- Thread starter
- #65
Tool & parts issued solved. So now all tools working and propeper Toyota 0-ring in place. NOTHING LEAKING 
.
I spoke with Advance Auto about their manifold gauge set, which they said is not very good. So I just picked up another new manifold, again from HF. Cleaned threads and lubed seals with Nylog again. I started pulling vacuum on just manifold with hose connection slightly loose. I then kept snuging down connection until all leaks stopped, finally. New vacuum pump seemed to be working good. The correct O-ring in place with Nylog on it.
Doing long term test on my AC system, with manifold disconnected until I check vacuum.
Also testing manifold while disconnected from my AC system, to see if it also holds vacuum.
2 hour test, holds vacuum.
24 hours test vacuums hold.
48 hours test vacuums hold.
FWIW worth here is what we found about Toyota O-ring. Basically this o-ring is not or improperly label on the Toyota internal parts system.
The diagram show a # 2 (pink highlight), then denotes 2 (small 2, pink arrow) 0-rings. In looking we only see two O-rings on this section of pipe, so assume same for both ends. With no separate parts number for the one I'm looking for (red arrow). This means they're the same, this is wrong.
The number # 2 O-ring is way to small, seen here in PN 90068-14011 which supperseeds the 90099-14120 as current replacement O-ring.
The correct PN # is 90068-14010 or #3 of AC system. Which you can see is much larger than #2. We confirmed this by looking at a rebuilt compressor in the box. It include two O-rings in a package. One was what looked like #1 discharge tube and a #3 suction tube O-rings for connections on compressor.
Next I'll be charging system.
.I spoke with Advance Auto about their manifold gauge set, which they said is not very good. So I just picked up another new manifold, again from HF. Cleaned threads and lubed seals with Nylog again. I started pulling vacuum on just manifold with hose connection slightly loose. I then kept snuging down connection until all leaks stopped, finally. New vacuum pump seemed to be working good. The correct O-ring in place with Nylog on it.
Doing long term test on my AC system, with manifold disconnected until I check vacuum.
2 hour test, holds vacuum.
24 hours test vacuums hold.
48 hours test vacuums hold.
FWIW worth here is what we found about Toyota O-ring. Basically this o-ring is not or improperly label on the Toyota internal parts system.
The diagram show a # 2 (pink highlight), then denotes 2 (small 2, pink arrow) 0-rings. In looking we only see two O-rings on this section of pipe, so assume same for both ends. With no separate parts number for the one I'm looking for (red arrow). This means they're the same, this is wrong.
The number # 2 O-ring is way to small, seen here in PN 90068-14011 which supperseeds the 90099-14120 as current replacement O-ring.
The correct PN # is 90068-14010 or #3 of AC system. Which you can see is much larger than #2. We confirmed this by looking at a rebuilt compressor in the box. It include two O-rings in a package. One was what looked like #1 discharge tube and a #3 suction tube O-rings for connections on compressor.
Next I'll be charging system.
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Good work. Nice documentation.
No doubt... this will be helpful for someone else down the line.
This is the kind of contribution that helps make MUD such a great site to come to.
No doubt... this will be helpful for someone else down the line.
This is the kind of contribution that helps make MUD such a great site to come to.
- Thread starter
- #67
So now that I have a radiator in, I'm able to run the engine and began filling AC.
So last night I add a 12oz can of R134 to H side (engine off). I kept the L side close at manifold and at my AC system side. I could have open system L valve but didn't as I had no reason to. Also I'm still holding a vacuum in L hose, and wanted to keep it that way.
Once I had the whole can in, I closed all valves and just let sit overnight.
So today, as OAT raise to 80 F, I'll be add 2 more 12oz cans to L side with engine on and H side off at manifold (H open at AC side).
The FSM states to test system run engine at 1,500 RPM.
Do I also need to keep RPM at 1,500 the whole time I'm filling through L side?
So last night I add a 12oz can of R134 to H side (engine off). I kept the L side close at manifold and at my AC system side. I could have open system L valve but didn't as I had no reason to. Also I'm still holding a vacuum in L hose, and wanted to keep it that way.
Once I had the whole can in, I closed all valves and just let sit overnight.
So today, as OAT raise to 80 F, I'll be add 2 more 12oz cans to L side with engine on and H side off at manifold (H open at AC side).
The FSM states to test system run engine at 1,500 RPM.
Do I also need to keep RPM at 1,500 the whole time I'm filling through L side?
I noticed you appear to have a print copy of the epc, seems to be outdated, online there is an updated image of the diagram with that correct part number listed.
No need to run at 1,500 RPM, other than to verify the pressures as per FSM. At idle it will also suck in the refrigerant. It just takes a bit longer.
Be very careful not to open the H valve at the manifold when the engine is running. In the past I have taped a piece of masking tape to the valve, to prevent opening it accidentally - since recharging is not something I do very often.
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^^^^^^^^ As @white_lx has posted above.
Pay attention to his instruction NOT to open the High Side. You are DONE with that. Once you've charged a can into the system (engine off) into vacuum, you are done with the high side valve(s), turn it off, leave it off.
From this point forward you will be charging from the low side (engine on, compressor on). This will be a vapor charge into the suction side. Do NOT invert the can. We don't want liquid refrigerant going into the low side (suction side).
Remember to 'purge' your lines. If you have any questions about when or how to do that....let us know.
Also, you want to 'weigh' in the charge (per recommended amount for your unit). We will use the gauges and vent temps to fine tune it....but when starting from an evacuated system...we want to replace the refrigerant by 'weight' and not gauge readings (which might be inaccurate).
Pay attention to his instruction NOT to open the High Side. You are DONE with that. Once you've charged a can into the system (engine off) into vacuum, you are done with the high side valve(s), turn it off, leave it off.
From this point forward you will be charging from the low side (engine on, compressor on). This will be a vapor charge into the suction side. Do NOT invert the can. We don't want liquid refrigerant going into the low side (suction side).
Remember to 'purge' your lines. If you have any questions about when or how to do that....let us know.
Also, you want to 'weigh' in the charge (per recommended amount for your unit). We will use the gauges and vent temps to fine tune it....but when starting from an evacuated system...we want to replace the refrigerant by 'weight' and not gauge readings (which might be inaccurate).
- Thread starter
- #72
Thanks guys, but I didn't wait to hear from you guys as it was getting late for me. I just went ahead and charged in one more can into L at idle. AC started right up blowing cold in front but not as cold in rear, just from the one can in H side the night before.
I didn't track my time, but I'm sure it took more than and hour, to do just this one can into L. I rocked the can from 12 to 3 o'clock once and awhile, more so near then end as can became very lite. I deicide to stop (pause) charging after this second can, as I really don't like idling so long. I'm also burping the coolant system and most likely a little low on coolant. So pause will also give me the opportunity to add coolant to radiator. This new CSF radiator is hold mayby 1/3 gal more PINK, than the Spectra I just pulled. So I'm cooling down until this evening, after a 5 mile drive to pick up some more Toyota SSL (PINK).
Anyway, that now makes 24 oz minus a faction for bleeding of yellow hose, based on published weight on can.
Once I had 2nd can in, I ran engine up to 1,500 rpm to inspect sight glass (foaming) and watch PSI of L & H. I turned off AC and saw it stayed mostly foamy. I then turned off engine and looked at the thermometer I had setting in in AC vent, which read ~50 F. OAT at the time was ~85 F.
I've worked diligently to get every drop out of the 2 cans of R134, into my AC system. The system calls for 35.2 OZ minium, and I've only 36 OZ total. In fact; I held can upside down with hose and can above manifold, once it felt empty (no rattle, not cold when inverted or shaken). I then closed the H valve, disconnected AC of my system. I then opened H of manifold hold both H hose and yellow hose w/can needle valve turned tightly in (closed), above the manifold.
I then closed all valves, and hung manifold up away from my rig. Manifold is still showing various PSI in H & L.
Adding the last can I assume will take even longer, but almost done and already blowing cold.
Starting to add second 12 OZ can.
As I near end of second can, I'd rotate 12 to 3 o'clock. Sounded like switching took place in AC system, I assume pressure switch. L would jump and H would drop just for a moment.
Second can in RPM at 1,500, pressures were stable.
FSM: At OAT of ~86 F
L 21.30 to 35.55 PSi
H 199.08 to 227.52 PSI
Needle turn all the way in, closing yellow hose.
I didn't track my time, but I'm sure it took more than and hour, to do just this one can into L. I rocked the can from 12 to 3 o'clock once and awhile, more so near then end as can became very lite. I deicide to stop (pause) charging after this second can, as I really don't like idling so long. I'm also burping the coolant system and most likely a little low on coolant. So pause will also give me the opportunity to add coolant to radiator. This new CSF radiator is hold mayby 1/3 gal more PINK, than the Spectra I just pulled. So I'm cooling down until this evening, after a 5 mile drive to pick up some more Toyota SSL (PINK).
Anyway, that now makes 24 oz minus a faction for bleeding of yellow hose, based on published weight on can.
Once I had 2nd can in, I ran engine up to 1,500 rpm to inspect sight glass (foaming) and watch PSI of L & H. I turned off AC and saw it stayed mostly foamy. I then turned off engine and looked at the thermometer I had setting in in AC vent, which read ~50 F. OAT at the time was ~85 F.
I've worked diligently to get every drop out of the 2 cans of R134, into my AC system. The system calls for 35.2 OZ minium, and I've only 36 OZ total. In fact; I held can upside down with hose and can above manifold, once it felt empty (no rattle, not cold when inverted or shaken). I then closed the H valve, disconnected AC of my system. I then opened H of manifold hold both H hose and yellow hose w/can needle valve turned tightly in (closed), above the manifold.
I then closed all valves, and hung manifold up away from my rig. Manifold is still showing various PSI in H & L.
Adding the last can I assume will take even longer, but almost done and already blowing cold.
Starting to add second 12 OZ can.
As I near end of second can, I'd rotate 12 to 3 o'clock. Sounded like switching took place in AC system, I assume pressure switch. L would jump and H would drop just for a moment.
Second can in RPM at 1,500, pressures were stable.
FSM: At OAT of ~86 F
L 21.30 to 35.55 PSi
H 199.08 to 227.52 PSI
Needle turn all the way in, closing yellow hose.
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- Thread starter
- #73
Done all three cans in (36oz). AC seems to be working fine. Seeing clear in sight glass mostly at 1,500 RPM, foams as I hear it switching occasionally. Foams as I turn off AC then clears.
I'm at minimum charge based on weight. Not sure how I'd add more to get to max, as I'd be left with ~10 oz in an open can, what would I do with the remainder!
I probably have a little too much oil in the system, but I suppose that's better than too little which could damage compressor.
I'll get a good test in the next day or so as OAT climbs into 80 or 90 F. It is going to be so "COOL" to test drive the Unicorn finally.
Only thermometer I've in the shop, blocks the vent to much given a little higher reading, but works good enough.
I'm at minimum charge based on weight. Not sure how I'd add more to get to max, as I'd be left with ~10 oz in an open can, what would I do with the remainder!
I probably have a little too much oil in the system, but I suppose that's better than too little which could damage compressor.
I'll get a good test in the next day or so as OAT climbs into 80 or 90 F. It is going to be so "COOL"
to test drive the Unicorn finally.Only thermometer I've in the shop, blocks the vent to much given a little higher reading, but works good enough.
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- Thread starter
- #77
Thanks.
I'm happy to report it went well!
I'll give that a try. Thanks.
Duh, forgot I had one of those!
I'll shoot temp and see if I get any lower reading.
On test drive I keep AC on COLD to keep on while shaking up the oil by driving (hils, turn and braking). I then dialed up temp dial until fan slowed one speed, which wasn't until at 68 F with OAT of 88F and sun coming in windshield.
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From reading this thread ( thanks Paul for creating it) there are clearly some contributors who seem to understand A/C system functionality. I have minimal knowledge of A/C systems so I pose my questions to the contributing A/C GURU's.
Ive noticed intermittent bubbles and foaming through the sight glass. Assuming from this condition that I am slightly low on refrigerant. Maybe its always been this way, or maybe a minor schrader valve leak on the H or L ports, or a line leak, but I don't think its that since the system has pretty consistent performance. To my knowledge the system has never been serviced, but it still blows very cold air. Vent temp check revealed around 45 degrees ( very good).
This is one job I'm prob not going to tool up for- so I'll have find a competent A/C service or take it to the dealer ( yeah I just said that) What is the best course of action based on system in working condition but low on refrigerant:
Ive noticed intermittent bubbles and foaming through the sight glass. Assuming from this condition that I am slightly low on refrigerant. Maybe its always been this way, or maybe a minor schrader valve leak on the H or L ports, or a line leak, but I don't think its that since the system has pretty consistent performance. To my knowledge the system has never been serviced, but it still blows very cold air. Vent temp check revealed around 45 degrees ( very good).
This is one job I'm prob not going to tool up for- so I'll have find a competent A/C service or take it to the dealer ( yeah I just said that) What is the best course of action based on system in working condition but low on refrigerant:
- Leave it alone: wait till it blows warm air?
- Check system pressure and just add a little refrigerant?
- Get an A/C system service? - which I checked into at an indi Toyota shop: $150- they drain system, "measure" what comes out, add dye, recharge with new gas. I asked if they replace the desiccant- they do not. I don't like this idea of adding tracer dye if there isn't a massive leak. Not sure I need to go this route at this time.
Leave it alone. A sealed ac system doesn’t need regular service on the refrigeration end. If it develops a leak you will know it when the performance suffers.
^^^^^ Agreed. Leave it alone. Only service it when performance has significantly diminished.
Refrigerants (freon) are not 'consumables'....as with engine oil, etc...
In a completely sealed system the capacity would always remain the same. The only way you will lose refrigerant is by leakage. Over time...you will lose a small amount of refrigerant though compressor seals and even the soft lines of the system which are slightly permeable.
There is really nothing to service until you have a problem.
I also advise folks to ignore small leaks (system requires a slight charge once a year or two). They just aren't worth chasing down.
If your system is cooling well enough for YOU, leave it alone. There isn't a benchmark that needs to be maintained.
Refrigerants (freon) are not 'consumables'....as with engine oil, etc...
In a completely sealed system the capacity would always remain the same. The only way you will lose refrigerant is by leakage. Over time...you will lose a small amount of refrigerant though compressor seals and even the soft lines of the system which are slightly permeable.
There is really nothing to service until you have a problem.
I also advise folks to ignore small leaks (system requires a slight charge once a year or two). They just aren't worth chasing down.
If your system is cooling well enough for YOU, leave it alone. There isn't a benchmark that needs to be maintained.
