SIMPLE QUESTION, wanting simple answers (1 Viewer)

[OSS]

When most people "rebuild an engine", what they're doing is pulling it and transporting the monster to a machine shop for THEM to do the actual rebuild.
Then when it's finished, they pick it up and reinstall it. That job (pull and install) is big but it's not rocket science and it doesn't require years of experience. The actual rebuilding of the engine (boring cylinders, machining the crankshaft and cams etc) does take a lot of experience to do well and requires a machine shop to do it.
Some people will take on some of the more doable tasks the machine shop would have done to save some money, but the meat and potatoes part of the rebuild is done by a machine shop.
I've facilitated the rebuild of 3 cruiser engines in my life, but all of them were Pull-And-Install affairs.

 

[cruisinAloha]

When most people "rebuild an engine", what they're doing is pulling it and transporting the monster to a machine shop for THEM to do the actual rebuild.
Then when it's finished, they pick it up and reinstall it. That job (pull and install) is big but it's not rocket science and it doesn't require years of experience. The actual rebuilding of the engine (boring cylinders, machining the crankshaft and cams etc) does take a lot of experience to do well and requires a machine shop to do it.
Some people will take on some of the more doable tasks the machine shop would have done to save some money, but the meat and potatoes part of the rebuild is done by a machine shop.
I've facilitated the rebuild of 3 cruiser engines in my life, but all of them were Pull-And-Install affairs.

thanks for that info, pulling an engine is the least of my worrys, thats a cake walk.
pulling the heads also no problem.
im just not sure what my course of action should be, it runs, just doesnt have a waterpump due to being seized with crap in the cooling system. my guess block seal, somebody else said possibly radiator seal but who knows the extent of it, its been sittin for 10 years untouched
threw a fuel pump in and it started right up when i noticed the waterpump squeeling like a pig

 

[SteveH]

OSS's comments were spot-on - the definition of 'rebuild' depends on you and the shop and who does what. I pulled the head on my 2F a couple years ago, and had a valve job done and .030 milled off the head for $220. I then reinstalled it myself - so the total expense was not huge, but the burden of much of the work was on me.

There are some who would just toss the engine in the truck and see how it goes. Yes, if it's bad, you get to pull it and rebuilt/repair it, but that's the risk you take with unknown engines. I installed a low-miles 2F that had been sitting for 12 years, and while it ran fine, all the rust flakes in the block promptly plugged my radiator. There is no single way to reduce all the likely problems to zero, and that's why old trucks are frequently a chronic work in progress. It sounds like you have a good ability to do some of the expensive work and then figure out where to go from there.

 

[2mbb]

My simple answer for you is “don’t do it”.

But your real question is not that simple. I would recommend you clean the sealant crap out as best you can and install a cheap water pump. Flush out the cooling system as much as possible and drive it. Then determine what other problems you have. You don’t know why the sealant was added—blown head gasket, cracked head, cracked block—or whether the repair attempt was even successful. You need to figure out what is wrong before you can make it right. Otherwise you will end up wasting money. The best solution may be to look for another truck or go far an LS swap as another poster recommended.

 

[hj 60]

rebuild: no opinion but I never go to a shop, I don't trust others and if money has to be spend I rather buy the tools and do it myself.
For expensive machinery this is not possible so choose your battles. (cylinder honing, pump pressure testing, 0.0(0)1 mm machining)
But if you ask a shop to fix or give a shop instructions on what to fix (and know tolerance and wear limit) is a different bill.

Can you get the old water-pump rotating again and use it again for a test drive and engine check? (maybe even find a replaced one locally)
So it might leak (wheep) but that is no problem and as long as it cools then you have some time and fun driving it a bit and no money spend yet.

Also do you have pictures how you found them, barn finds are rare and 2 of them for that money is a very rare opportunity, good luck fixing it.

My old rad would also keep giving this brown mud water but flushing seems easier when driving, just fill with water and drive a bit and drain:

If you knock out a freeze plate (replace) then it might show "sand" but that seems to be normal and result of casting:

 

[g-man]

Remove the water pump and see if there is crud inside it and behind it. Knock out the freeze plugs and flush them insitu.

Has a compression test been done? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I'm referring to the rebuild, not the water pump.

 

[Mace]

F series engine rebuilds are not complex or hard. You do have to follow the FSM on a couple things and verify that you're doing the right thing. If someone put a seal in the coolant system, then very likely the block needs to be boiled out, and all freeze plugs replaced. At that point, you might as well do a rebuild. The machine shop can do the short block reassembly, or even the long block (the pull and replace "Rebuild") but if you are mechanical at all, doing the assembly yourself is not an issue.

I've had good luck with not replacing pistons or boring out the stock motors. The cylinder walls haven't egg'ed much on my rebuilds. But the machine shop can do a better job of letting you know what is necessary. Sourcing the correct size pistons is sometimes difficult.

Other than milling the head, or replacing the valves, there isn't much good to be done on the intake runners. It just doesn't matter that much.


As said above, get a compression check to see where you stand. That'll be the best way to tell what condition the motor is in.

 

[cruisinAloha]

Remove the water pump and see if there is crud inside it and behind it. Knock out the freeze plugs and flush them insitu.

Has a compression test been done? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I'm referring to the rebuild, not the water pump.

i havent done a whole lot cause my first order of business was get the one running and sold.
bought a waterpump to swap it out but when i pulled the thermostat i saw all the s*** which in turn drained all my motivation to do the job and rust ended up eating through some of the outlet/inlet nipples on the thermostat housing.
ended up sending the waterpump back where it came from pissed off, ill reorder pump, thermostat housing, run a compression test, im also grabbing a "flushgun" and a solvent flush run it through the system then power flush and see where that leaves me.

rebuild: no opinion but I never go to a shop, I don't trust others and if money has to be spend I rather buy the tools and do it myself.
For expensive machinery this is not possible so choose your battles. (cylinder honing, pump pressure testing, 0.0(0)1 mm machining)
But if you ask a shop to fix or give a shop instructions on what to fix (and know tolerance and wear limit) is a different bill.

Can you get the old water-pump rotating again and use it again for a test drive and engine check? (maybe even find a replaced one locally)
So it might leak (wheep) but that is no problem and as long as it cools then you have some time and fun driving it a bit and no money spend yet.

Also do you have pictures how you found them, barn finds are rare and 2 of them for that money is a very rare opportunity, good luck fixing it.

My old rad would also keep giving this brown mud water but flushing seems easier when driving, just fill with water and drive a bit and drain:

If you knock out a freeze plate (replace) then it might show "sand" but that seems to be normal and result of casting:

luck is certainly needed, ive always wanted an fj62 when i saw these guys rotting away i had to attempt, easy sale storage yard was dying to get rid of them, ill have to snap some pictures, the body is getting eaten away by rust, salty ocean air living on an island, just gotta see if its woth keeping, i actually really like how it looks rusted out haha

 

[cruisinAloha]

LS swap

not tryin to do all of that, financially speaking, i do however have a fully built sb Ford debated dropping that in the cruiser

 

[onemanarmy]

Buy wrecked 2wd tahoe, suburban, silverado or the GMC equivalent for pennies, buy Tcase adapter (lots of pennies), put it together and slide it in.....

 

[Mace]

Buy wrecked 2wd tahoe, suburban, silverado or the GMC equivalent for pennies, buy Tcase adapter (lots of pennies), put it together and slide it in.....

He is asking about a rebuild difficulty, a swap is not any easier.

 

[g-man]

A GM motor swap is going to still be $$. think wiring harness, ecm, o2 sensors, fabricating and mounting new motor mounts. Low profile oil pan....etc etc.

Don't see a lot of ford engines going in these. I don't know if there is no support ..ie adapters etc. But Chevy 350, LS, much info on doing this.

But really, do a compression test first. These motors can take a beating. And if the compression #s are good you have a viable engine. From there it is just a matter of sorting out the coolant problems, and even if you have to replace the radiator, t-stat and housing, water pump and freeze plugs it would be worth it to flush and try to keep going.

If the compression #s are way off...like one is 20 psi or more lower then you really have to think about if a rebuild is worth it. I'm not sure about a 3FE but my 2F / 87FJ60 is a dying platform. Gone are new from factory Toyota internal parts like crankcase, camshaft, cylinder heads.

 

[60Works]

I fully rebuilt my 60. No experience. Only mud and the books. It runs... tho it’s leaking oil and I’m coming to grips about having to take the front end off again to fix it... but it does run. And only months ago the engine and drivetrain were in pieces in my garage. And I’m just a chick. You can do it. Amazing experience.

Gotta disagree that you're 'just a chick', Yota. You have mad skills. Earned the hard way.

 

[cruisinAloha]

Gotta disagree that you're 'just a chick', Yota. You have mad skills. Earned the hard way.

was gonna say same thing, cant be "just a chick" if youve succesfully rebuilt your own cruiser

 

[cruisinAloha]

A GM motor swap is going to still be $$. think wiring harness, ecm, o2 sensors, fabricating and mounting new motor mounts. Low profile oil pan....etc etc.

Don't see a lot of ford engines going in these. I don't know if there is no support ..ie adapters etc. But Chevy 350, LS, much info on doing this.

But really, do a compression test first. These motors can take a beating. And if the compression #s are good you have a viable engine. From there it is just a matter of sorting out the coolant problems, and even if you have to replace the radiator, t-stat and housing, water pump and freeze plugs it would be worth it to flush and try to keep going.

If the compression #s are way off...like one is 20 psi or more lower then you really have to think about if a rebuild is worth it. I'm not sure about a 3FE but my 2F / 87FJ60 is a dying platform. Gone are new from factory Toyota internal parts like crankcase, camshaft, cylinder heads.

yeah it was just something i contemplated, well i have the whole drive train, transmission, transfer case, but would have to still fabricate a lot of things which im not gonna bother with

 

[cruiserdan]

There is more to this than one might think. The 3FE is a low-volume bridge engine that was used for only about 4 years. Add to this the fact that the very newest one out there is pushing 30-years-old.
There are quite a few "mission-critical" components for these engines that are no longer available. Distributors, airflow meters, throttle bodies, air intake hoses, fuel pressure regulators, air injection pumps, EFI computers and drive belt idlers to name a few.

I would make sure all that stuff is serviceable before I did a mechanical rebuild.

 

[cruisinAloha]

There is more to this than one might think. The 3FE is a low-volume bridge engine that was used for only about 4 years. Add to this the fact that the very newest one out there is pushing 30-years-old.
There are quite a few "mission-critical" components for these engines that are no longer available. Distributors, airflow meters, throttle bodies, air intake hoses, fuel pressure regulators, air injection pumps, EFI computers and drive belt idlers to name a few.

I would make sure all that stuff is serviceable before I did a mechanical rebuild.

no smog in hawaii so ill be doing the air pump and egr delete, my cats are already deleted thanks to some sawzalling junky, the dizzy looks pretty new still,

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

A comment from CruiserDan! Wow! I didn’t even realize he was in the mud world anymore! A silent stalker now. Good to see his knowledgeable comment. @cruisinAloha call yourself very lucky.

 

[cruisinAloha]

 

[cruisinAloha]

rebuild: no opinion but I never go to a shop, I don't trust others and if money has to be spend I rather buy the tools and do it myself.
For expensive machinery this is not possible so choose your battles. (cylinder honing, pump pressure testing, 0.0(0)1 mm machining)
But if you ask a shop to fix or give a shop instructions on what to fix (and know tolerance and wear limit) is a different bill.

Can you get the old water-pump rotating again and use it again for a test drive and engine check? (maybe even find a replaced one locally)
So it might leak (wheep) but that is no problem and as long as it cools then you have some time and fun driving it a bit and no money spend yet.

Also do you have pictures how you found them, barn finds are rare and 2 of them for that money is a very rare opportunity, good luck fixing it.

My old rad would also keep giving this brown mud water but flushing seems easier when driving, just fill with water and drive a bit and drain:

If you knock out a freeze plate (replace) then it might show "sand" but that seems to be normal and result of casting:

picture posted shes no looker and definitely needs work but shes my rusty pig