SBC vs 2F

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toyotalandfj40 said:
That's what a guy in my TLC club around here told me to do if I was to do wheeling still with the V8, don't want to shatter a birfield, but you could get those Longfields. Also, more of heat blocking from the exhaust for the firewall thickening, that was another word of advice from the same guy. Only saying what I've been advised to do if doing a V8.

And I meant rear, but he also said to just swap for a dana 44 front and back, with a locker in the rear.
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You really need to talk to someone else. IMHO, you're getting very bad advise. Don't waste your time with D44 axles.

I wheeled many years with FJ40 axles. I used to have a high power SBC 350 crate engine in it. Never broke any drive line parts except birfields. This was years before Longfields were available.
 
fj40charles said:
You really need to talk to someone else. IMHO, you're getting very bad advise. Don't waste your time with D44 axles.

I wheeled many years with FJ40 axles. I used to have a high power SBC 350 crate engine in it. Never broke any drive line parts except birfields. This was years before Longfields were available.
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I think it's the problem with the club itself....not many 2F engines......and mostly V8s, all of which start to ramble on about needing new parts for this that broke, that that broke, etc etc

While the 2F engine people are.......well......we're good, may just be observations from the club.
 
it cost me 450 to have my head rebuilt and shaved and all new harden seats for unleaded 1-f head and the pistons for domes were 350 with bearings thats 800 bucks after i did it with new clutch i could have put a v8 in for that price since i allready have a v8 conversion kit ,but nooooo someone conviced me stock was better , so i got a nother 68 fj40 with a v8 turbo 400 sitting in it and nothing else hahaha ,,now im thinking stock was cheaper
 
duffontap said:
I've been just watching and learning here but I hope I can get answers to a couple questions from the SBC guys:

Let's say the 2F in my '77 DD (my only truck) finally goes and I'm stuck stealing the family car to get to work. I need to get back on the road relatively quickly but I decide to go SBC 350. I grab this kit from AA:

(P/N 713024-EK) | Advance Adapters

From what I understand, my shopping list would also include two drivelines, possibly a new radiator, all new exhaust, and a new clutch kit.

So far, it doesn't really seem terribly complicated. My questions are:

1. Where do you go for a good deal on a crate engine (used/excellent/TBI/complete)?
2. Are there any major things I'm forgetting that would slow the conversion down?
3. What would be a good guess on overall cost?
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The AA kit s a good start. If you can, round up annother front front drive shaft and have two driveshafts shortened. If you can swap the top cover to one from a 60 series, it will move the stick shift back about 4" which will help to avoid modifications of your stickshift. New rad... depends on what you've got... I'm running a stock 3core high density re-cored rad... in the desert, you'd want more. New custom exhaust. New LUK clutch.

I'd look for a complete running motor with al accesories... alternator, starter. Youll need a 168 tooth flywheel. The right rear transfercase mount will need to be modified (or did in my case). Wiring, relocating rad, sheet metal work, and a hundred other little things will all slow things down.

Cost: $2000 including new clutch, exhaust, mounts welded in, 120 amp alternator.
$300 for running 350 + $200 for RV cam, lifters, and rockers.

Labour: A ton by me.




Versus:
$300-500 for a complete running 2F with accesories.
Installed in as little as one day (perhaps 2).
 
fj40charles said:
Just too may advantages over a carb'd engine.
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Sure, modren fuel injection has many advantages over carburation. The only advantage I can think of (not being a purist) is that the carb is so easily field repaired. EFI requires black boxes, and many wires filled with the magic smoke.
How they work is completely over my head.
But my original carb I know inside & out. There are no mysteries in it. If it pukes on me on the trail I know I can just take it apart and put it back together again and that works 99% of the time.
I've been on the run where that new-fangled engine wouldn't start, and everybody is running around looking for a code reader. When mine won't start I look for a 12mm endwrench.
I guess if you carry the spare black boxes and a smoke refill, you avoid that scenario where the computer says "I'm sorry Hal".
An Aisin Carb and an F series motor just go together. They may not be perfect, they may not get you there in the fastest, most economical fashion. That's not what the LandCruiser was designed for. The important thing is that they get you home again. I'm thinking that even today, EFI has a slightly higher trail fail rate than stockish carburation...but I'm just guessing.
 
Figure about 5K to put in a V8.

More or less depending on how much of the work you do.
 
Pighead said:
Sure, modren fuel injection has many advantages over carburation. The only advantage I can think of (not being a purist) is that the carb is so easily field repaired. EFI requires black boxes, and many wires filled with the magic smoke.
How they work is completely over my head.
But my original carb I know inside & out. There are no mysteries in it. If it pukes on me on the trail I know I can just take it apart and put it back together again and that works 99% of the time.
I've been on the run where that new-fangled engine wouldn't start, and everybody is running around looking for a code reader. When mine won't start I look for a 12mm endwrench.
I guess if you carry the spare black boxes and a smoke refill, you avoid that scenario where the computer says "I'm sorry Hal".
An Aisin Carb and an F series motor just go together. They may not be perfect, they may not get you there in the fastest, most economical fashion. That's not what the LandCruiser was designed for. The important thing is that they get you home again. I'm thinking that even today, EFI has a slightly higher trail fail rate than stockish carburation...but I'm just guessing.
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Carbs have their place, but not when you're wheeling 5+ rated trails. Fuel injection will keep your engine running where a carb may not.

I consider having fuel injection a safety feature. Don't need to have my front end up going up an obstacle and have to worry about keeping the engine running. I have seen many vehicles roll due to having to use full throttle to try to keep their engine running or attempting to go up something and have their engine die on the way up.

Running propane is another good option if you want a reliable fuel delivery at extreme angles.
 
Pighead said:
Sure, modren fuel injection has many advantages over carburation. The only advantage I can think of (not being a purist) is that the carb is so easily field repaired. EFI requires black boxes, and many wires filled with the magic smoke.
How they work is completely over my head.
But my original carb I know inside & out. There are no mysteries in it. If it pukes on me on the trail I know I can just take it apart and put it back together again and that works 99% of the time.
I've been on the run where that new-fangled engine wouldn't start, and everybody is running around looking for a code reader. When mine won't start I look for a 12mm endwrench.
I guess if you carry the spare black boxes and a smoke refill, you avoid that scenario where the computer says "I'm sorry Hal".
An Aisin Carb and an F series motor just go together. They may not be perfect, they may not get you there in the fastest, most economical fashion. That's not what the LandCruiser was designed for. The important thing is that they get you home again. I'm thinking that even today, EFI has a slightly higher trail fail rate than stockish carburation...but I'm just guessing.
Click to expand...

x2

Fuel injection certainly has some advantages. What I don't like is that i've heard of it just deciding not to run. A coworker of mine had a newer fuel injected Ford. While he was more than 50 miles off the highway, it wouldnt start, it would only crank over. (Knowing the area he was in, there was no 2-way radio service nor cell cell service.) He was stuck out in bear, wolf, and cougar country with his wife and two grandchildren... he was pissed. He tried bomb starting it, and nothing. He got lucky and someone came along... they tried jump starting it... still nothing. just when they wer ready to give up, he turned the key one last time... it started without even a jump. When he tore into the guy at the Ford dealership, the guy had no explanation. He said they just do that sometimes, and to bring it back in if it did it again...:eek:

On a trial with 20 other trucks, I wouldn't worry about it, but when I was in the interior, I'd regularily be 70 miles away from any form of civilazation... not somewhere I'd want to have a sensor go south... or not have a code reader.

:cheers:
 
OK, Rubicon not hard...my mistake.
 
You can run a stock fj cruiser (or jeep) through it... It's not that hard..
 
OK. The Rubicon is not hard, I got it. Silly me.
 
splib said:
What's in the gunny sack hangin off the back??

Maybe I don't want to know....
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Traditional place to hang the garbage bag...empty bottles & cans mostly.
 
duffontap said:
Let's say the 2F in my '77 DD (my only truck) finally goes . . . .
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Thanks for the replies Bikersmurf, Mace, and toyotalandfj40. I hope it was clear that my questions were based on a hypothetical breakdown and not an actual one. My 2F still had pretty good compression last time I checked and it's been very reliable overall. For that matter, I've been keeping a good spare 2F in case I do have a failure.

I was just wondering how easy and affordable of an option the swap would be for someone like myself who would need it back on the road relatively soon. The install kit really makes it look pretty doable (if not fun). As it is, I'm neither a purist, nor a hardcore user, so the 2F suits my use (although I really wish the towing capacity was greater), but a future SBC swap would be a live option.

Learned a lot from this thread . . . :cheers:
 
duffontap said:
Thanks for the replies Bikersmurf, Mace, and toyotalandfj40. I hope it was clear that my questions were based on a hypothetical breakdown and not an actual one. My 2F still had pretty good compression last time I checked and it's been very reliable overall. For that matter, I've been keeping a good spare 2F in case I do have a failure.

I was just wondering how easy and affordable of an option the swap would be for someone like myself who would need it back on the road relatively soon. The install kit really makes it look pretty doable (if not fun). As it is, I'm neither a purist, nor a hardcore user, so the 2F suits my use (although I really wish the towing capacity was greater), but a future SBC swap would be a live option.

Learned a lot from this thread . . . :cheers:
Click to expand...

A V8 is never quick or cheap. Even the seasoned guys take a while to get one done properly.

To tow more you really need to address the braking system when you increase the motors capacity..
 
the time it takes all depends on if you have all the parts, everything goes together smoothly, and a bit of luck. If you go with fuel injection the time line will probally be greater due to complexity. I would not want to have a compressed deadline for a full blown engine swap...its best to take your time, ask plenty of questions and maybe check out some other local V-8 rigs and talk with the owners as to what they have done (local state clubhouse area is a good place to start).

Affordable is a pretty loose term.....If you can do most of the work yrouself and you have all good parts from teh salvage yard you might be able to dot it reasonally for low relative cost.

I did the swap for the fun factor and I was way over being impressed with the 2F (in my 60). The cheapest route to a V-8 would be to go old school with a Q-jet carb setup.

Be good to go read through the engine swap threads in the the 40 and 60 section to get an idea of what it takes.
 
It would take about two weekends for two guys with decent mechanic skills to get it done given all the parts on hand.
 
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