S.A.I. Filter Modification, in VVT engines. To prevent its failure! Alert Alert! (1 Viewer)

[2001LC]

they get wet, and then they disintegrate. It's open cell foam.
they don't suck in water or probably won't like the tundra twin pumps, but the moisture and condensation is there.
they will deteriorate from just being wet over time.
can you believe where toyota put those pumps on the tundras? There's a 5.7 tundra teardown on the popular utube guy that does ALL the teardowns. Lot's of visuals on the twin pump with long tubes to the switching valves. Much like the 4runners as far as plastic pipes to the rear valves.

Good point about moisture.

I have been wonder how the region (climate) one is driven in, may effect foam & rubber. My test rig came for GA and spend time up and down the northeast region. So came form moist climate.

I do see variation in condition of rubber hoses and foam, on rigs I work on. Region they come from, seem to be a big determining factors of condition.

Jerry do you have a link to the 5.7 teardown, you care to share?

 

[abuck99]

Honestly- I can’t see how the UNI filter would fail, or be crumbling apart. I’ve used them for decades on offroad motorcycles in much more challenging hot-wet-dusty environments than the intake manifold will see. Never seen any deterioration. The filter media is sandwiched between steel mesh.

Sounds like typical service department propaganda to point failure elsewhere.

 

[2001LC]

Honestly- I can’t see how the UNI filter would fail, or be crumbling apart. I’ve used them for decades on offroad motorcycles in much more challenging hot-wet-dusty environments than the intake manifold will see. Never seen any deterioration. The filter media is sandwiched between steel mesh.

Sounds like typical service department propaganda to point failure elsewhere.

Could be propaganda.

But could be, he (Matt in the 4runner) washed it, with something that broke down compressed foam of the 1"UNI filter.

I was going to treat my UNI filter, with K&N filer cleaner and oil. UNI tech support said to me; do not wash itl, nor use K&N oil to treat.

 

[jerryb]

 

[asticot]

Could be propaganda.

But could be, he (Matt in the 4runner) washed it, with something that broke down compressed foam of the 1"UNI filter.

I was going to treat my UNI filter, with K&N filer cleaner and oil. UNI tech support said to me; do not wash itl, nor use K&N oil to treat.

Do you have a picture of how this looks with the filter sticking out of the manifold. I’ve got a GX470 and want to do this preventative maintenance when it warms up. There is a Youtuber that did this except he left the UNI-107 filter within the manifold, so you would have to take everything apart every 2-3 years as the filter deteriorates.

 

[2001LC]

Yes, in Post #2

 

[asticot]

Yes, in Post #2

I had a look at your post, so I see the filter on the outside but just can’t get a sense of how you snaked the extension hose on the filter from the inside of the manifold. Do you have a picture of that?

 

[2001LC]

I had a look at your post, so I see the filter on the outside but just can’t get a sense of how you snaked the extension hose on the filter from the inside of the manifold. Do you have a picture of that?

The parts used, how it routes from S.A.I pump out from under intake manifold. Is clearly shown in pictures on page 1, in post #4.

S.A.I. Filter Modification, in VVT engines. To prevent its failure! Alert Alert!

We've a $2.00 part in the S.A.I. (secondary air injection) system of the VVT engine, that is taking-out ~$7,000.00 $15,000 $25,000 (inflation) in parts. WOW! I've a very easy and cheap WORK AROUND. You are going to love this ;) This thread is dedicated to the 4.7L 2UZ-fe VVT engine, in the...

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[jtb517]

@2001LC any tips on how you clean and prep before removing the intake manifold?

 

[2001LC]

I park with front end higher than rear. Then power wash with engine running, from cold start up (best) or warm (not a hot engine). This way cold water doesn't shock hot parts, and w/front end higher water runs to back of engine. With the VVT intake manifold, we don't get "as much" water into the engine valley, as we do with non VVT. But in either, water will drain back, and out valley drains just below stater. I then (while wet) blow of with shop air (HP air). I then drive for a few minutes if I can, to aid in drying. If I still see sand/muck, I don't just excepts, I repeat. I use shop air again, before loosening intake manifold bolts once dry.

The top PS side of engine is covered somewhat by the air pipe/box. It's a little harder to wash. But it also doesn't tend to get as dirty. Most times I get it clean, with air pipe/box on. But sometimes, I must remove air pipe/box and clover all opens. I can't run engine, while washing in those cases. But that's okay. I just drive after to aid in drying.

Watch out for old coil top seals, they shrink. Which may allow water entry into spark plug tubes. The water is not the issues so much, as it will evaporate in tubes of hot running engine. It's the dust & sand it carries into spark tubes, which falls into cylinder when we change spark plugs. One good reason to replace coil boots and seal, the earlier of, every 90K miles or 7 years w/T-belt service.

I also had a case, where intake manifold bots were not tighten. Likely some starter job in the past, someone forgot to torque them. In this case RPMs changed as water hit area. In part because water reduced vacuum leak. So I do tend to at least glance at bolts or put a wrench on them, to make sure tight. As water here, can also wash dust/sand into to intake ports.

I vacuum out, any spec I see in intake ports, once manifold off. I carefully fill intake ports of head with shop towels, to keep dust/sand/muck out as a work and clean gasket surfaces areas. Before assembly, I vacuum out shop towels. I also get my head/eyes over top engine, so I can see down into each intake port with a flashlight. I then vacuum each port out, of any spec I see.

The muck in/on the intake ports walls of heads. I do not disturb anymore than I must. As I've concern with chunks falling in, but some guys do wipe out with gasoline. But I've found by running a multiple fuel system cleans; 44k, Chevron techron, Sea foam and Cataclean, per pulling intake manifold. Those ports gets cleaned very nicely.

I'm very mindful of any contact bottom of intake manifold during install, with engine parts. The rubber gaskets is held in bottom of intake manifold, with it's rubber tabs. It's very easy to nick the rubber gasket, which can result in vacuum leak. One thing I find useful, is before removal of intake manifold. Bend the engine hoist hooks outward a little. This gives more room to pull and install, the intake manifold. It's those hoist hooks, I fine cause the most nicks in gasket. I keep extra gasket on hand, just for this.

 

[NoTempoLimit]

Do "high RPM burn outs" on HWY (Italian burn), clear codes and see if they return.

Great thread, @2001LC subscribed! What's your definition of Italian Burn (I thought it was called the Italian Tune-Up)? In the naturally aspirated straight-6 BMW world, it was 10 minutes above 4500 RPM. But those engines have much higher redline 6500 RPM.

There's a wiki but its short on details: Italian tuneup - Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_tuneup

 

[2001LC]

Great thread, @2001LC subscribed! What's your definition of Italian Burn (I thought it was called the Italian Tune-Up)? In the naturally aspirated straight-6 BMW world, it was 10 minutes above 4500 RPM. But those engines have much higher redline 6500 RPM.

There's a wiki but its short on details: Italian tuneup - Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_tuneup

I called it High RPM run or HWY burn. Than saw it called Italian tune-up somewhere. Somewhere along the line I started calling Italian Burn! In any case it's a made up name.

Out of caution. I recommend 3 or 4 minutes first high RPM run. Than progressive longer duration. 4,500 RPM, is where CAT really start getting hot.

 

[NoTempoLimit]

I called it High RPM run or HWY burn. Than saw it called Italian turn-up somewhere. Somewhere along the line I started calling Italian Burn! In any case it's a made up name.
Out of caution. I recommend 3 or 4 minutes first high RPM run. Than progressive long duration. 4,500 RPM, is where CAT really start getting hot.

Pretty good video here regarding this:

It seems that for the pistons and exhaust valves, you need to get them above 325ºC [617ºF]. That seems to happen at 5000 RPM but the engine needs to be under load. So it looks like you'd need to do a pull in a lower gear (prob 3rd on the 5-Spd AT 750) going uphill. The intake valves won't get that hot, but the fuel spray with detergents should help keep them deposit free.

30 years ago, back when I had my first generation Mazda RX-7 I had to put the cat and air pump on to take the version of the smog test in Miami. It was still on and I had a problem with my clutch hydraulics, so I avoided shifting on the way home (about 25 min drive on freeway at night). The rotary engine has no problem at high RPM and I was probably spending a lot of time at 5000 or above. For those that don't know these now-obscure engines: Rotary exhaust is VERY hot, 2000ºF.

When I got home the cat was GLOWING bright orange. It almost looked like you could see through it. It was probably 1600-1800ºF.

Did not do that again!

 

[2001LC]

CAT temp is where High RPM HWY run ( Italian Burn (tune!)) or whatever one calls it, really shins. Just slow driving around the neighborhood at ~700 - 1,500 RPM, CATs get to ~1,000 F. Which is well below optimum CAT Temp.

Where I do feel, we get "some" benefit in combustion camber, from high RPM runs. Products like 44K do more, and we may get some added removal of deposit the 44K has loosened, as high RPM blows and burns.

Where I use high RPM runs:

• After many cold starts with short low RPM drives.
• After excessive idling, which OM recommends against. But in the shop is sometimes necessary.
• During and after using fuel and direct inject fuel system and CAT cleaning products used.
• Sometimes before a compression test, especially if fuel additives used.
• When DTC for CAT or A/f or O2 sensors, as a diagnostic aid.

Of a number of cases where the HWY RPM runs have worked to clear DTC for A/F & O2 sensors and CATs and they've not return.

One real good example was from a botched timing belt job, that came to me. In this one, 44k had been added to gas tank, prior to a time belt service. Seems after the service owner picked up and noted how badly it run. Then after each time engine shut down and restated, it ran worst until it would't run at all. BK 2 was getting flooded/soaked in fuel, which was rich in 44K. This fuel soak the intake ports below injectors (intake man. & head), combustion and CATs for days. Once started smoked like I've never seen before. CEL came on, DTC for O2, after it stopped smoking I cleared DTC and they came back. Did a high RPM run, cooking CAT and sensor. DTC did not return. I started with short run of 3-4 minutes, then worked my way up to longer and higher RPM runs. Why start with lower RPM & short runs. Concerns with so much gunk and/or unspent fuel, I'd overload and burn up CATS. Additionally I like to get the feel of any engine on first run, by not taking RPMs to high for to long.

Timing belt job just done. Blown engine or savable? This is interesting guys!

Happy 2020 all. Well, I spent last day of 2019, inspecting a 2005 LC w/~200K, that was towed to me. That had a Timing Belt installed a few days before coming to me Let me know your thoughts: Blown engine from interference or is there hope? Also what do you think happened? Skip story and go...

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[2001LC]

FWIW: I ran some logs on CAT Temps yesterday, during a rather wet snow storm.

During normal driving around town, at 700-2,000 RPM. I get: 1,100 to 1,200 F.
Normal drive on HWY, at 1,800-2,200 RPM. I get: 1,200 to 1,350 F
High RPM HWY burn at 4,200-4,600 RPM. I get: 1,470 -1,530 F
Very high RPM HWY burn 4,800 to 5,300. I get: 1,480 -1,550 F

 

[fro20fow]

FWIW on mine I had cat codes (P0420/30) about 1-2 years before I got SAIS codes (can’t recall what codes but recall loud fan noise coming from the unit). I installed the SAIS bypass kit which took care of the SAIS codes, and installed o2 spacers which took care of 0420/30 codes.

Dude, think I am experiencing the same. Had same cat codes which were fixed a (couple years ago) and recently been hearing vacuum noise. No codes associated with vacuum noise yet.

When the day comes, either of you, pull the intake manifold. I'd be supper interested in condition of your AI pump filter?

I think I will have mechanic check it out. Will probably have them replace the pump 176100C010 ,which based on my readings, should have a high chance of solving the vacuum noise problem. Hesitant to have them tear down the motor but maybe can do some other things while in there.

Anyway, I will be sure to ask them to note the condition of the filter and/or save the pump for me.

 

[2001LC]

Dude, think I am experiencing the same. Had same cat codes which were fixed a (couple years ago) and recently been hearing vacuum noise. No codes associated with vacuum noise yet.




I think I will have mechanic check it out. Will probably have them replace the pump 176100C010 ,which based on my readings, should have a high chance of solving the vacuum noise problem. Hesitant to have them tear down the motor but maybe can do some other things while in there.

Anyway, I will be sure to ask them to note the condition of the filter and/or save the pump for me.

I'm very interested in your S.A.I pump filter. Thank you in advance.

BTW: What was CAT fix done a couple of years ago?

Keep in mind, replacing pump a good idea. But it's Likely a temporary (7 to 14 yrs) fix.

 

[2001LC]

More evidence Toyota, knows we've an issue with these S.A.I pump (blower motor) filters:

Recently I was at a Lexus parts counter. Talking with the parts guy, who's been around at Toyota and Lexus Dealerships parts for decades here in Denver. In talking with him last month, He said: "They did have campaign, replacing S.A.I. filters." What models and years IDK. I just know not for 100 series!

Toyota is not likely to willingly help us with the issue. Nor likely too openly say anything, unless forced to if they know. They can fall back on age related, and out of warranty period. But, a defect or design issue, causing any environmental related failure. Possible they can be forced to.

But maybe they can be forced to take care of us .
If we can prove what & why damages occur to filter first, and secondly other components. Well Environmental issue are second only to safety issues with DOT, number one with EPA.

We need more anecdotal evidence.

As I said in the beginning of this thread, I may be wrong about CAT damaged, due to S.A.I. filter failure. You decided.
But I'm 98% sure, CAT failure is directly related to contaminants blowing into exhaust system from S.A.I. system when filter has failed.

I am 100 % sure filter failure will take out the S.A.I system. That all 4.7L VVT S.A.I filters will fail. That filter failure is the cause of a TSB (not stated as by Toyota) requiring all S.A.I components be replaced, if certain DTC pop up.

 

[Mark WV]

@2001LC - Thank you for the thought and effort that has gone into the project.

Just to add my 2 cents:

On my 06 lc100, (Mid-Atlantic region- mostly highway use - low dust areas). the p0420/p0430 code first showed up at around 185,000 miles. I checked all the usual suspects - complete tune up , checked vacuum& exhaust leaks, AF & O2 sensors, etc and was unable to identify any issues that lead to the Cat failure (assuming that the cat was actually bad). I did remove the cat but did not observe any blockage as shown in your photos. I also tried the Italian tune-up without success. Also for reference the air injection system was operating normally (it went out a couple of years later)

My conclusion at the time was that the cat was Not “bad”, But rather was still operating at 80-90% efficiency - which combined with the very tight parameters Toyota had programmed for 06-07 was just low enough to set off the code.

My fix was to add the o2 sensor extenders ($10) to the rear o2 sensors as I was not willing to pay for new converters.

6 years have passed since then, and the codes did not come back- The vehicle now resides in a state that checks tailpipe emissions, and it continues to pass these emission tests with flying colors. ( with the original cats still in place…)

I would agree that adding a replaceable filter is a worthwhile investment to protect the air pump, valves, and possibly the cat.

I am making no judgement as to your conclusion on the cause of cat failure - Just adding a east coast perspective to your knowledge base.

My limited conclusion would be that All of the 06-07 rigs are ultimately going to experience P0420/P0430 codes in their life regardless of the conditions they are operated in. The cause- overly restrictive programming on Toyota’s part, Which sets the codes when anything less that 90%-95% cat efficiency is observed.

( 2 years later the air injection failed -hewitt kit solved that issue…)

 

[Max.Powerzz]

@2001LC Toyota needs to give you an honorary doctorate