S.A.I. Filter Modification, in VVT engines. To prevent its failure! Alert Alert! (1 Viewer)

[2001LC]

@2001LC - Thank you for the thought and effort that has gone into the project.

Just to add my 2 cents:

On my 06 lc100, (Mid-Atlantic region- mostly highway use - low dust areas). the p0300 code first showed up at around 185,000 miles. I checked all the usual suspects - complete tune up , checked vacuum& exhaust leaks, AF & O2 sensors, etc and was unable to identify any issues that lead to the Cat failure (assuming that the cat was actually bad). I did remove the cat but did not observe any blockage as shown in your photos. I also tried the Italian tune-up without success. Also for reference the air injection system was operating normally (it went out a couple of years later)

My conclusion at the time was that the cat was Not “bad”, But rather was still operating at 80-90% efficiency - which combined with the very tight parameters Toyota had programmed for 06-07 was just low enough to set off the code.

My fix was to add the o2 sensor extenders ($10) to the rear o2 sensors as I was not willing to pay for new converters.

6 years have passed since then, and the codes did not come back- The vehicle now resides in a state that checks tailpipe emissions, and it continues to pass these emission tests with flying colors. ( with the original cats still in place…)

I would agree that adding a replaceable filter is a worthwhile investment to protect the air pump, valves, and possibly the cat.

I am making no judgement as to your conclusion on the cause of cat failure - Just adding a east coast perspective to your knowledge base.

My limited conclusion would be that All of the 06-07 rigs are ultimately going to experience P0200/P0300 codes in their life regardless of the conditions they are operated in. The cause- overly restrictive programming on Toyota’s part, Which sets the codes when anything less that 90%-95% cat efficiency is observed.

( 2 years later the air injection failed -hewitt kit solved that issue…)

Thank you for your input.

You took the coarse, many have. (02 extenders & S.A.I block off )

Here's the two most important contribution to this thread, I will ask of you:
What is the compression of each cylinder now, and back when saw the first DTCs (if you have those readings also)?
What is condition of the S.A.I pumps filter at this time?

I assume you did not list all DTC. As neither P0300, P0200 is a CAT DTC (P0430 or P0420) or S.A.I DTC(s).
Can you list all DTC in your vehicle history, and the mileage or date when each came up? (If any came up repeatedly, list each occasion by mileage or date).

You wrote: "I checked all the usual suspects - complete tune up , checked vacuum& exhaust leaks, AF & O2 sensors, etc and was unable to identify any issues that lead to the Cat failure"
Did you find the cause of cylinder misfire and/or fuel injector issues, the DTC P0300 & P0200 pointed to?
What were the condition of coil?
What was condition where they, and how difficult or easy was it to remove spark plugs?
Did you find any vacuum leaks?



It has been suggested in mud. CAT sampling parameters in the 4.7L VVT of the 100 series, where set to tight by Toyota.
Perhaps! But to that I must note: I see many 06-07 VVT 100 series. Most have never have set off P0430 & P0420 CAT DTCs.

 

[2001LC]

@2001LC Toyota needs to give you an honorary doctorate

At least, right!

 

[Mark WV]

My post corrected to reference P0420/P0430 codes. My bad- typing while working….

 

[2001LC]

My post corrected to reference P0420/P0430 codes. My bad- typing while working….

OH Okay...LOL. I correct more typos than I can count.

So as to my other question, I'll repeat them:

1. Can you list all DTC in your vehicle history, and the mileage or date when each came up? (If any came up repeatedly, list each occasion by mileage or date).

Here's the two most important contribution to this thread, I will ask of you:

• What is the compression of each cylinder now, and back when saw the first DTCs (if you have those readings also)?
• What is condition of the S.A.I pumps filter at this time?

So here's what we know about your 06:
CEL ~3 yrs ago, CAT DTC P0430 & P0420. Tuned & R&R A/F & O2. CAT DTCs remained. Solved with install of 02 extenders (spark plug extenders).
2 years later. S.A.I DTC ??. Solved with install of S.A.I block off kit.
Passes emissions test always, So CAT must be working at a good enough level.

 

[fro20fow]

I'm very interested in your S.A.I pump filter. Thank you in advance.

BTW: What was CAT fix done a couple of years ago?

Keep in mind, replacing pump a good idea. But it's Likely a temporary (7 to 14 yrs) fix.

Hey sorry for the delay.

Previous owner had entire system replaced.

I had 02 sensors replaced after I purchased it a few years ago (had common upstream error code but downstream was the problem or vice versa issue)

Truck is at the mechanic. They will replace pump. They think it’s a failed bearing (based on sound), but will have them look it more detail once they get in there.

 

[fro20fow]

Will try to open it up later today when I find the right screw driver.

 

[2001LC]

Once screw out of top cap. You'll find, the top is also glued on. A heat gun, or place in over at ~180f for ~1 hr, will soften glue. Than you can get cap off without much effort and reduce risk of damage to top.

You can also look into air inlet and see some of the face of filter.

 

[2001LC]

Worth mention here again.

The DTC (codes) for S.A.I; May come up before, at same time or after CAT DTC. Toyota TSB on some S.A.I DTC, recommends every parts of S.A.I system be replaced.

IMHO, debris enters air pressure sensor sample tube and fouls the sensor.. I suspect, replacing the air pressure senor on main switch is all that is need, along with filter for pump or new pump (so air is filtered). I replaced the entire main switch, which has pressure sensor in it. As I didn't want to pull intake manifold again, if replacing the air pressure sensor alone did not work. So obviously, I was not 100% sure sensor only would do the job.


Pressure sensor circled in yellow on S.A.I main switch.

 

[fro20fow]

LOL.

 

[2001LC]

LOL.

View attachment 2966892

Thanks for taking the time to open up S.A.I pump and post a picture, showing filter is indeed gone.!

Which I'm see more and more of these, whenever both CAT have gone bad.

If you ever have compression tested. Please post up the results?

 

[fro20fow]

Thanks for your write up. You were spot on.

Also, broken fins + no chew marks. I’m guessing after filter disappears, chance of debris breaking fins increase significantly. Once fin breaks, we get high pitched vacuum noise.

Idk where the broken fins end up..

 

[2001LC]

Thanks for your write up. You were spot on.

Also, broken fins + no chew marks. I’m guessing after filter disappears, chance of debris breaking fins increase significantly. Once fin breaks, we get high pitched vacuum noise.

Idk where the broken fins end up..

View attachment 2966905

Damage fins, always (to date) seem to be in a group.

The damaged fins, would change sound pitch. The lack of filter muffling and allowing more air into cavity changes sound. I can hear a difference when I pull off my filter, even with all fins in good condition. Makes a louder kind of turbo vacuum sound. I also played around with air restrictions devices of various sizes, in my filter hose. This also change the sound.

It is my bet 98 of 100 VVT engine, that heard this louder turbo sound. That also had DTC of both CAT and S.A.I. Installed the Hewitt block off kits and O2 extenders. Will also find their filter missing, if they look.

In my pump, prior to modification. I had the loud turbo sound. Fan motor and bearing are fine, and likely still work for thousand of hour. So IMHO the turbo sound is not the pump motor failing. It is due to missing filter, and impeller likely damaged.

99.9 of debris i.e foam, plastic & dust all end up in CAT's

 

[Mars06LC]

OH Okay...LOL. I correct more typos than I can count.

So as to my other question, I'll repeat them:

1. Can you list all DTC in your vehicle history, and the mileage or date when each came up? (If any came up repeatedly, list each occasion by mileage or date).

Here's the two most important contribution to this thread, I will ask of you:

• What is the compression of each cylinder now, and back when saw the first DTCs (if you have those readings also)?
• What is condition of the S.A.I pumps filter at this time?

So here's what we know about your 06:
CEL ~3 yrs ago, CAT DTC P0430 & P0420. Tuned & R&R A/F & O2. CAT DTCs remained. Solved with install of 02 extenders (spark plug extenders).
2 years later. S.A.I DTC ??. Solved with install of S.A.I block off kit.
Passes emissions test always, So CAT must be working at a good enough level.

I drive the aforementioned 06 LC now. It got the P0420/30 around 185k miles, 2017ish. Kept coming back over the course of ~1yr till install of O2 extenders. SAI: I don't actually recall a code ever showing up, I think I just had the loud fan sound at startup and knew from reading that it would eventually fail and trip limp mode. Installed bypass and fixed. Don't think the vehicle has had any other codes.

I've never tested cylinder compression so can't help there. However, runs great otherwise. And never had the intake manifold off so unsure SAI filter condition.

 

[2001LC]

I drive the aforementioned 06 LC now. It got the P0420/30 around 185k miles, 2017ish. Kept coming back over the course of ~1yr till install of O2 extenders. SAI: I don't actually recall a code ever showing up, I think I just had the loud fan sound at startup and knew from reading that it would eventually fail and trip limp mode. Installed bypass and fixed. Don't think the vehicle has had any other codes.

I've never tested cylinder compression so can't help there. However, runs great otherwise. And never had the intake manifold off so unsure SAI filter condition.

If your happy with the fix. Great!

Still, would be interesting to see the condition of S.A.I pump filter and compression some day.

 

[asticot]

So I went ahead as well and opened up the intake manifold. I haven’t had any error codes except for one time in the winter, but I attribute that to the very short trips I was making to pick up kids and it was -20c here in Canada and the cats didn’t have a chance to warm up. When I took the car on a run the codes went away. Anyways, as you can see my filter is almost completely gone:

Truck has 151000miles (GX470). All of my fins are intact though. I don’t off-road with this vehicle.

I’ll be putting a UNI filter in as a fix, hopefully this will save me very expensive fixes down the road. Thanks to you 2001LC.

 

[2001LC]

So I went ahead as well and opened up the intake manifold. I haven’t had any error codes except for one time in the winter, but I attribute that to the very short trips I was making to pick up kids and it was -20c here in Canada and the cats didn’t have a chance to warm up. When I took the car on a run the codes went away. Anyways, as you can see my filter is almost completely gone:

View attachment 3050839

Truck has 151000miles (GX470). All of my fins are intact though. I don’t off-road with this vehicle.

I’ll be putting a UNI filter in as a fix, hopefully this will save me very expensive fixes down the road. Thanks to you 2001LC.

Actually looks like the whole filter, which is the best time to catch it and do the mod. How's the texture. Feel supple & spongy or dry & falling apart?
What codes where you getting on cold morning?

Here's a S.A.I. filter for comparison.

 

[asticot]

Actually looks like the whole filter, which is the best time to catch it and do the mod. How's the texture. Feel supple & spongy or dry & falling apart?
What codes where you getting on cold morning?

Here's a S.A.I. filter for comparison.

Thanks for clarifying that my filter is actually intact. I thought that the filter filled the whole space. Here’s what it looks like close up. It’s very easy to fall apart.:

I got a P0420/P0430, I can’t remember which. Likely not P0430, because I replaced that cat as part of exhaust manifold replacement.

At the time though the code came online after a few days of driving in very cold temperatures on very short trips. I watched a YouTube video by the Car Care Nut who said Toyotas will typically throw these codes if the Cats don’t have a chance to warm up , which was my case. And after doing a long drive and clearing the codes they never came back

 

[2001LC]

Thanks for clarifying that my filter is actually intact. I thought that the filter filled the whole space. Here’s what it looks like close up. It’s very easy to fall apart.:

View attachment 3051551

I got a P0420/P0430, I can’t remember which. Likely not P0430, because I replaced that cat as part of exhaust manifold replacement.

At the time though the code came online after a few days of driving in very cold temperatures on very short trips. I watched a YouTube video by the Car Care Nut who said Toyotas will typically throw these codes if the Cats don’t have a chance to warm up , which was my case. And after doing a long drive and clearing the codes they never came back

If one drives very short distances, not heating CAT to optimum. It will kick off a CAT DTC P0420 or P0430. My GF only drives a miles to work. Takes about 60 days of these short drives, to set off CAT. So I make sure to take out on HWY and run at high RPM for 10 minutes 3 times each month. This cooks off A/F & 02 sensors and CATs. Like turning ones oven to clean.

Some other causes of CAT DTC (not all inclusive):
Excessive idling will set of a CAT DTC. OM states more than 20 minutes as excessive.
Compression low.
Coolant in combustion camber.
Air leak into CAT.
Poorly tuned, vacuum leaks etc.
Running rich (fuel dumping in CAT igniting and burring them out)

This filter mod will help avoid SAI, CAT and other issue in the futures. But is not your cause today.

 

[prickly]

Hi 2001LC, attached my DTC codes I pulled 3 hours ago after doing a full AHC flush (LX 470 2007. N/A Spec driven in NY - shipped here to Dubai, sorry for the flash, forgot i had it on and shut down Techstream immediately after). I recently got Techstream and started looking into all PM and servicing myself to 1. Save money 2. Save my car from people who do s*** jobs that later cost me more to fix (in abundance here).

Just brief history, got the car 5 years ago - at 127k miles, now at 201k. Super clean car except the accident damage it had from PO. P0420/P0430 has been there for past 3-ish years or so, initially they'd come and go but now they're solid. Never bothered with it but now I want my dash board free of CEL lights.

I had my car at the mechanics last week (new radiator and valve gasket replace) but I wasn't aware of this thread. I have new CATs already on the way but after going through this thread, I won't be installing them right away, instead - I'll do these fixes before going in to fix the new CATs.

I'm not sure if I have all the tools to take off in-take manifold myself but I'm very mechanically inclined and make sense/follow instructions-pictures easily. What info would you need to help you gather more data - I'll try to collect them.

 

[2001LC]

Hi 2001LC, attached my DTC codes I pulled 3 hours ago after doing a full AHC flush (LX 470 2007. N/A Spec driven in NY - shipped here to Dubai, sorry for the flash, forgot i had it on and shut down Techstream immediately after). I recently got Techstream and started looking into all PM and servicing myself to 1. Save money 2. Save my car from people who do s*** jobs that later cost me more to fix (in abundance here).

Just brief history, got the car 5 years ago - at 127k miles, now at 201k. Super clean car except the accident damage it had from PO. P0420/P0430 has been there for past 3-ish years or so, initially they'd come and go but now they're solid. Never bothered with it but now I want my dash board free of CEL lights.

I had my car at the mechanics last week (new radiator and valve gasket replace) but I wasn't aware of this thread. I have new CATs already on the way but after going through this thread, I won't be installing them right away, instead - I'll do these fixes before going in to fix the new CATs.

I'm not sure if I have all the tools to take off in-take manifold myself but I'm very mechanically inclined and make sense/follow instructions-pictures easily. What info would you need to help you gather more data - I'll try to collect them.

View attachment 3077791

Thanks for offering to help.
Number one point; is S.A.I filter gone or not or partial gone?

In addition: I'd also like to see see from you and everyone with 06-07 VVT that has CAT issue(s):

• All DTC (codes) every seen/recorded.
• Compress test, done by the book (FSM). i.e. Engine at operating temp. Power to fuel pump disconnected (wire harness block under body just below rear left door). Gas pedal fully depressed (this opens throttle body butterfly, the safe way). Full charge on battery ( keep a charge on battery, while testing) so you get a minimum of 250 RPM as each cylinder tested.

History of engine & vehicle:

• Has intake manifold every been off (reason it would have been: S.A.I pump or it's main SW work, starter replacement, intake gasket replacement, rodent chew damage under intake manifold like knock sensors wires, starter wires, S.A.I wires),
• Tuned. Always or just runs fine never needs tuning.
• Air filter. Has its seal been found curled, which allows excessive dust into intake. Has filter been replaced every 20K miles or sooner under dusty conditions.
• Any vacuum leaks
• Any exhaust leaks, from rear of either CAT up to heads.
• Conditions vehicle driven in. Here I'me very interested in dusty conditions driven in. Which if so, we tend to see a lot of dusty built up under intake manifold, on S.A.I pump and main switch and in thick bottom of engine valley.
• Prolonged idling (yes, no, kind of, don't know). The OEM states do not prolong idle, and defines as 20 minutes IIRC.
• Ever overheated.
• Does it tend to run hot (over 197F).
• Any fuel boiling episodes.

Logs of and in what weather condition and OAT:
Engine coolant temps (ECT).
Long term fuel trims (LTFT), while RPM & MPH steady and at what are the RPM & MPH.
What are intake air temps (IAT), outside air temp (OAT), sun, overcast, night during times logs are recorded of other data points.
CAT temps.

I know it's a lot to ask, so just get what you can.

Also if compression low or bad and clues to reason for it. I see so often where intake manifold removed without cleaning top engine really well first. Sand drops into intake ports, and or intake ports not protected and or not vacuumed while expose/and before buttoning up. In fact, it is such a big deal to me. I red flag any inspections, if history show intake manifold every off.
Another way sand gets into cylinder, is during spark plug removal. This is really only issue if coil top seal, have been allowed to get to old before plugs replaced. As they rubber seals shrink. It's more of issue to be concerned with. If vehicle in dusty or sandy conditions. We than tend to see sand on top of heads covers around coils and in valley.
Also I find , 1 in 4 air filter seal curled, allowing air/dust to bypass filter. Dust then goes directly into intake ports. This is due to carelessness, while installing air filter.

We also want to know if prolonged idling is a common occurrence or lot's of short drives (not making operating temp). Both can damage CATs.
If fuel mixture to rich, CAT can ignite and burn up.
CAT's are also damaged by coolant, so coolant issue are worth nothing.
Air leaks into CAT, will also burn them up.
Additionally, impact to a CAT can bust then up up.

For data collection: I use either Bluedriver or more recently OBDIImx+ and my smart phone (iphone). To watch and record data (logs) as I drive. Very useful tools, which I can also scan for DTC and clear them.

What I'm try to establish; if any other reasons for CAT failure and is the filter of S.A.I pump gone. Also what is compression and any clues in history as to why.

Here"s some screen shots of live view from my iphone and log I emailed myself (spread sheet). These are from and 07LX w145K I bought last month. I was doing a HWY high RPM burn out to clear any carbon & muck build up off CATs, A/F & o2 sensors. These were take on drive back from point of purchase at ~94f OAT, day of full sun, at ~5PM, just as starting to get overcast.

Screen shot of iphone while stopped, next day.

I found ECT and AT fluid #2 (automatic transmission fluid #2) temps getting to high, due to the typical radiator fins clogged. Likely guy who sold to me, probably didn't like they way in was running in summer heat. I've since washed muck from radiator fins, and drop ECT & AT temps from what's seen in spread sheet logs above, by about 20F.

Pictures of muck in radiator.