Right tool for the job - a discussion of rig design and usage (1 Viewer)

[Wrencher93]

I've read through your thread and there is a lot of good information. I am surely not an expert but I have done quite a few LS/Vortec swaps into Land Cruisers with success. Here are some thoughts.

The LS/Vortec platform is hands down the most used platform in all types of vehicles. There is good reason for that. These motors are rock solid and will last just as long as the Toyota 6 cylinder if maintained. There is plenty of documentation of fleet vehicles running 300-500K miles with only oil/filter changes and a set of plugs here and there.

Some mention has been made regarding "Frankenstein" swaps. Well sure, that can be said about a swap with any motor if done incorrectly. But, truth is that a well sorted LS/Vortec swap yields a vehicle that is very reliable and has a level of parts support that is hard to even compare with other motors, other than a small block Chevy. Add to that that they are easy to work on and there is a wrench in every town that can work on them.

We've all read about the guys that can do a vortec swap for $5K. True enough. Yet we have all read about the same swaps putting the owner in the garage every weekend wrenching on the truck instead of driving it. Why anyone would go to the trouble of doing a modern motor swap in a 25 plus year old vehicle and not upgrade the supporting systems is beyond me. It's like asking for trouble. I use new, high performance radiators, new fuel pumps, filters, regulators, new fuel lines, new trans cooler lines, auxiliary trans coolers, auxiliary PS coolers, new radiator and heater hoses, new AC condenser, drier and hoses.

Harness work is done by professionals along with computer flashing. Crate motors come with all new harness work. I also use new gauges. The OEM gauges were vague when new and I'll be damned if I will use hacks just to get a tach to work correctly. A temp gauge that reads C to H, really. What is normal C and a half, five eights? I don't know, do you? Same applies to oil pressure.

The point is, when done right an LS/Vortec swap is a game changer. Our trail rig is a 1995 80 series. It is sitting in front of my shop with a 5.3L/4L65E/split case in it waiting for me to finish up the swap and a laundry list of other items. It'll have a Ron Davis Racing radiator in it and an LRA long range tank mounted behind the rear axle being used as the primary tank. It has a new harness made by Wayne at 150tunes.com and an ECU flashed by Wayne as well. I have no question about the reliability of the equipment.

In regard to value, if you do not think that a swap to a modern motor will increase the value of your Land Cruiser you are kidding yourself. I know that Land Cruiser are "special" but they are vehicles plain and simple. The market for older vehicles heavily favors them to be upgraded across the board. Like it or not, an 80 series that has been lifted, larger tires, armor and all the rest falls into the category of Resto-Mod. The people buying these vehicles want to jump in them and go, anywhere, and they want it to drive like a modern vehicle. Very few people care if a Land Cruiser, or any vehicle for that matter is "OEM Stock" any more.

In the end, each individual owner will do what they think is right and what they can afford at the time. Hopefully those changes will net them a truck that they can take out and enjoy and won't let them down. None of them are right or wrong, just different. Bottom line is to just do what you do and have fun with it

Thanks for shedding some light on the pros of a swap. The hardest thing IMO is making the decision that best suits you. Financially, I'm forced to keep the 1FZ right now. I'm not sad about that but even if I were, tough cookies cuz the money isn't there.
But, I am still pondering what the "ideal" 80 looks like for me. It may look like a swap at some point. I'm not ruling that out yet so thanks for the info.

 

[Wrencher93]

Agreed, the 42 hangs down very low. The 24 tucks very well. The only downside I’ve found to the LRA aux tank is loosing the spare tire location. But after going to 315’s you mostly lose the ability to mount a spare there anyway.
I don’t notice a handling difference between 48 gallons of fuel or an empty fuel load. I do notice 1/2” of rear suspension squat when fully fueled up. After I burn 10 gallons the squat is unnoticeable.
Supporting mod for aux tank is a faster transfer pump btw. The standard pump takes 45ish minutes to transfer. The rabbit hole doesn’t go too deep if you don’t “need” a rear bumper to mount that spare.

Good to hear that a full aux tank doesn't feel much different than empty. That's the thing with fuel compared to anything else (except maybe a large water tank) - it's transient weight. You can tune/change suspension to account for any constant load but transient can become quite the problem. How is your 80 built, if you don't mind my asking? I'm curious how it compares to mine after reading your comments about the LRA tank.

 

[Heckraiser]

But, I am still pondering what the "ideal" 80 looks like for me. It may look like a swap at some point. I'm not ruling that out yet so thanks for the info.

The ideal cruiser for me would be one swapped by Mr. NCFJ himself, if money were no object.

 

[Wrencher93]

The ideal cruiser for me would be one swapped by Mr. NCFJ himself, if money were no object.

Yes, @NCFJ, I just took a look at your signature. It looks like you do some really nice work! More power to you, sir. Maybe one day I'll be yet another happy customer.

 

[Pierce]

Good to hear that a full aux tank doesn't feel much different than empty. That's the thing with fuel compared to anything else (except maybe a large water tank) - it's transient weight. You can tune/change suspension to account for any constant load but transient can become quite the problem. How is your 80 built, if you don't mind my asking? I'm curious how it compares to mine after reading your comments about the LRA tank.

1997 CE, Mangnuson Supercharger, ARB front bumper, Warn 12k with wire line, IPOR rear bumper, 24 gallon LRA aux, standard main tank, Slee sliders (now step sliders), Icon Stage 1, 3” lift, 30mm spring spacers on driver front and rear.
Recently removed the rear tire carrier for the sake of convenience (the grocery store curbside pickup kids couldn’t operate it...yep! I said it!!) and to look less “overlandery”. Threw the spare in the back. No height change in rear. Interior is all stock, no storage, no stockpile of tools.

thread lacked pictures

 

[Wrencher93]

1997 CE, Mangnuson Supercharger, ARB front bumper, Warn 12k with wire line, IPOR rear bumper, 24 gallon LRA aux, standard main tank, Slee sliders (now step sliders), Icon Stage 1, 3” lift, 30mm spring spacers on driver front and rear.
Recently removed the rear tire carrier for the sake of convenience (the grocery store curbside pickup kids couldn’t operate it...yep! I said it!!) and to look less “overlandery”. Threw the spare in the back. No height change in rear. Interior is all stock, no storage, no stockpile of tools.
View attachment 2465086View attachment 2465087View attachment 2465088View attachment 2465089
thread lacked pictures

As always, pictures are welcome haha! And nice! It sounds like we are in the same ball park. I have front and rear bumpers, sliders, winch, etc. The reason I asked is I wasn't sure if you had a similar amount of weight. Obviously an aux tank would add a higher percentage of gross weight to the vehicle if you were bone stock (minus the tank itself) vs our 80's which are armored and lifted.

 

[Wrencher93]

For anyone who has been reading along, I think the following is my desired build in the near future (next couple of years):
4.88 gears
Panhard lift bracket
Heavy duty rear sway bar and LCP heavy like
LRA aux tank
Dual batteries (to support winch & fridge)
Fridge/freezer
cargo drawers
Skid plate - undecided DIY vs commercial
***If I'm lucky*** Wit's End turbo

Now, this list is just off the top of my head and I'm throwing it up here intentionally to spark further discussion.
1.) Anyone have a similar build and want to comment? Pros, cons, "wish I would have..."?
2.) This list is a work in progress based on my ever-changing level of knowledge and what my 80 already has on it.

More pics, because Mud

 

[BigredTEX]

Agreed, the 42 hangs down very low. The 24 tucks very well. The only downside I’ve found to the LRA aux tank is loosing the spare tire location. But after going to 315’s you mostly lose the ability to mount a spare there anyway.
I don’t notice a handling difference between 48 gallons of fuel or an empty fuel load. I do notice 1/2” of rear suspension squat when fully fueled up. After I burn 10 gallons the squat is unnoticeable.
Supporting mod for aux tank is a faster transfer pump btw. The standard pump takes 45ish minutes to transfer. The rabbit hole doesn’t go too deep if you don’t “need” a rear bumper to mount that spare.

I agree that the 42 hangs too low and, in my opinion, is asking for dents and possibly a puncture. A puncture may be unlikely since the LRA tanks are made from heavy gage steel, but it's possible if you drop the rear onto a rock. That's why I went with the 24 gallon tank. It essentially doubles your capacity and range and I don't even know it's there as far as weight and handling. I've got a 4X4Labs bumper so the spare rides back there.

I agree about the transfer rate too. I'll generally run the main tank close to "E" and hit the button to transfer and forget about it until it beeps, telling me the aux tank is empty.

 

[BigredTEX]

For anyone who has been reading along, I think the following is my desired build in the near future (next couple of years):
4.88 gears
Panhard lift bracket
Heavy duty rear sway bar and LCP heavy like
LRA aux tank
Dual batteries (to support winch & fridge)
Fridge/freezer
cargo drawers
Skid plate - undecided DIY vs commercial
***If I'm lucky*** Wit's End turbo

Now, this list is just off the top of my head and I'm throwing it up here intentionally to spark further discussion.
1.) Anyone have a similar build and want to comment? Pros, cons, "wish I would have..."?
2.) This list is a work in progress based on my ever-changing level of knowledge and what my 80 already has on it.

That's a well thought out plan. The panhard lift bracket is something many people don't consider, but it really makes a difference in how the vehicle behaves. I went with 4.56 gears with my LQ4 swap and now I think I'm regretting it unless I go to 37's. There's so much torque that it's spinning faster than it needs to at highway speed. - first world problem. If you've got a place to put the spare an aux tank is one of the best upgrades. The range gain is a game changer.

 

[Wrencher93]

That's a well thought out plan. The panhard lift bracket is something many people don't consider, but it really makes a difference in how the vehicle behaves. I went with 4.56 gears with my LQ4 swap and now I think I'm regretting it unless I go to 37's. There's so much torque that it's spinning faster than it needs to at highway speed. - first world problem. If you've got a place to put the spare an aux tank is one of the best upgrades. The range gain is a game changer.

Yeah I have my spare on the Slee rear bumper. No desire to put a spare back under the truck because a 35 won't fit right and I'm not downsizing the tires. That location is completely empty except for the receiver braces. I don't want to lose the receiver so if the tank interferes I will have to fab something to make it work. I don't tow with the 80 right now but I intend to. And I figure 4.88 gears for me because 1.) With 35's it will be slightly lower gearing than stock but I have a heavy truck 2.) If I decide it's spinning too high after adding a turbo I can do TC gears to lower the cruising RPM and 3.) I think an argument can be made for 5.29's but I really don't want the hassle that comes with a properly dialed truck on 37's - at least not until I really have a garage set up to work in and money burning a hole in my pocket.

 

[Pierce]

I had the Slee receiver hitch prior to the LRA tank. The receiver itself will work but the outriggers do not. The LRA tank uses the Slee outrigger bolt locations (spare tire jack location). The receiver itself will still handle a fair sized trailer without the outriggers.
I’m running 4.88’s and 315’s. 70 mph rpms are around 2750. Cruising speeds on S. Tx highways are around 80 mph (speed limit +5, legit 80 in others). That’s around 3,000 rpm. The 80 could care less and still has good water temps at that rpm.

 

[Wrencher93]

I had the Slee receiver hitch prior to the LRA tank. The receiver itself will work but the outriggers do not. The LRA tank uses the Slee outrigger bolt locations (spare tire jack location). The receiver itself will still handle a fair sized trailer without the outriggers.
I’m running 4.88’s and 315’s. 70 mph rpms are around 2750. Cruising speeds on S. Tx highways are around 80 mph (speed limit +5, legit 80 in others). That’s around 3,000 rpm. The 80 could care less and still has good water temps at that rpm.

Awesome! Thanks for the data point. Yeah I figured those braces would have to go if I put an aux tank back there. I'm sure there's some other way to make the receiver bomb proof - it would just have to be more creative than the current bracket.

 

[Zjohnsonua]

I ponder the need for LRA tanks in the lower 48. If you're routinely running the Dalton or hanging out in BFE for weeks on end, this won't apply:

Once you get the 4.88s in you'll find your range is 350ish miles in mixed driving with your build. That worked out to 2 whole days of wheeling in Colorado before I needed fuel. I mean, sure you could have 600 mile range, but what does it functionally add? My 12V Cummins' range is ~500 miles, but I find myself breaking long hauls with stops to stretch my legs and walk around a bit long before I need diesel.

LRAs are an expensive add (and potential liability in the larger varieties) for what potential benefits they offer. And when pricing, make sure you add in the coating cost...otherwise you'll have a similar tank rust issue to all us 60/62 owners.

 

[Wrencher93]

I ponder the need for LRA tanks in the lower 48. If you're routinely running the Dalton or hanging out in BFE for weeks on end, this won't apply:

Once you get the 4.88s in you'll find your range is 350ish miles in mixed driving with your build. That worked out to 2 whole days of wheeling in Colorado before I needed fuel. I mean, sure you could have 600 mile range, but what does it functionally add? My 12V Cummins' range is ~500 miles, but I find myself breaking long hauls with stops to stretch my legs and walk around a bit long before I need diesel.

LRAs are an expensive add (and potential liability in the larger varieties) for what potential benefits they offer. And when pricing, make sure you add in the coating cost...otherwise you'll have a similar tank rust issue to all us 60/62 owners.

I respect your point but I think the LRA tanks, for the vast majority of people, represent flexibility and peace of mind rather than a "must have" mod. I'm fine with jerry cans. Wavian cans are stout and the seals are replaceable so they will last for years and take a lot of abuse. But if we're talking about lower center of gravity off road, convenience, larger storage capacity, and the ability for a smaller or weaker person to operate (wife, kids, anyone who struggles to hold 30-ish pounds at chest level for a couple minutes) then an aux tank is the clear winner. It's the ease of use and extended range when you need it that sell the idea. Most of the time you won't need it. Just like 98% of the time you don't need your full range of suspension travel - but it sure makes a whale of a difference when you do need it and it's there. I don't think I would be severely limited without one. Doesn't stop me from wanting it and thinking it would be useful.

 

[BILT4ME]

I ponder the need for LRA tanks in the lower 48. If you're routinely running the Dalton or hanging out in BFE for weeks on end, this won't apply:

Once you get the 4.88s in you'll find your range is 350ish miles in mixed driving with your build. That worked out to 2 whole days of wheeling in Colorado before I needed fuel. I mean, sure you could have 600 mile range, but what does it functionally add? My 12V Cummins' range is ~500 miles, but I find myself breaking long hauls with stops to stretch my legs and walk around a bit long before I need diesel.

LRAs are an expensive add (and potential liability in the larger varieties) for what potential benefits they offer. And when pricing, make sure you add in the coating cost...otherwise you'll have a similar tank rust issue to all us 60/62 owners.

I'm seriously considering an LRA tank just because I'm sick of filling with fuel EVERY DAY due to the miles I drive. I could get to every 3 days with an additional tank.

No, it's not a lot of time savings, but it's just a PITA when I've already been driving that much and worked a long day.

 

[Wrencher93]

For me, it would just erase the need for jerry cans and almost double my usable range for those times when I want to take a route that may or may not have good fuel availability. Yeah, most places in the U.S. don't suffer from lack of gas stations - but most people don't buy an 80 to go "most places" they buy one to go to a place I refer to as "wherevertheydamnwellplease"...which includes beyond the reach of service stations.

 

[Wrencher93]

Again, totally not a requirement. But more useful than the 7" headlight mod everybody seems to drool over

 

[z531519]

I consider LRAs as definitely a nice-to-have in the lower 48. I've always carried a jerry can for peace of mind and yes I've used it a few times, mostly to get me to the next gas station on those long drives (poor planning on my end). So far i haven't needed one out in the boonies though i am certain i'll need a couple of them for a trip to say Canyonlands Maze district, that time an LRA would surely be nice... plus a jerry can haha.

Personally, i am looking at carrying a water tank in the spare, i think i'll find it more useful since finding places to refill water is more PITA for me.

Not sure what the 7" headlight mod is but i added a 9" offroad lights (arb knockoffs) for those late night country road drives i typically find myself in. They're cheap, and very useful! Pretty happy with ROI!

 

[Wrencher93]

I consider LRAs as definitely a nice-to-have in the lower 48. I've always carried a jerry can for peace of mind and yes I've used it a few times, mostly to get me to the next gas station on those long drives (poor planning on my end). So far i haven't needed one out in the boonies though i am certain i'll need a couple of them for a trip to say Canyonlands Maze district, that time an LRA would surely be nice... plus a jerry can haha.

Personally, i am looking at carrying a water tank in the spare, i think i'll find it more useful since finding places to refill water is more PITA for me.

Not sure what the 7" headlight mod is but i added a 9" offroad lights (arb knockoffs) for those late night country road drives i typically find myself in. They're cheap, and very useful! Pretty happy with ROI!

The 7" mod I was referring to is where people install custom headlight housings designed to take a 7" round headlight - like a 40 series, 60 series, or *gasp* a jeep

 

[BigredTEX]

Awesome! Thanks for the data point. Yeah I figured those braces would have to go if I put an aux tank back there. I'm sure there's some other way to make the receiver bomb proof - it would just have to be more creative than the current bracket.

I have a 4X4Labs bumper that was a kit. I built the bumper before installing the tank and got lucky that the tank fit. I did have to fabricate a spacer for the tank mount, but it could have been worse. With the kit you build the bumper on the truck and some of the internal bracing doesn't have exact locations as you weld it up. The rear cross member must be cut out and is replaced by part of the bumper, which the tank uses as a mounting point. Just an FYI and as I said, I got lucky.