Right tool for the job - a discussion of rig design and usage (2 Viewers)

[Wrencher93]

And for the record, I don't think anyone in this thread has suggested that an engine swap was economical. The only reason I thought about a 2UZ swap was the fact that it was a multi-platform engine and it was introduced after the 1fz so parts will be available for them after 1fz parts have dried up. Hopefully both will be viable options for a good while.

 

[APhelps]

And for the record, I don't think anyone in this thread has suggested that an engine swap was economical.

Well i did see someone compare a 30k swap to a brand new Tacoma/4Runner. Which is absurd since you're still talking all the sub systems that have aged.

To be realistic most of the reason that the 80 is an awesome platform for offroading is due to a) SFA and b) full float axles. You stick them on a newer vehicle and most of them are just as if not more capable and nicer. You can certainly cut the axle housings and weld the diff housings where they need to be. I venture to guess you could be in that realm for less than half the cost of a swap.

 

[Wrencher93]

Well i did see someone compare a 30k swap to a brand new Tacoma/4Runner. Which is absurd since you're still talking all the sub systems that have aged.

To be realistic most of the reason that the 80 is an awesome platform for offroading is due to a) SFA and b) full float axles. You stick them on a newer vehicle and most of them are just as if not more capable and nicer.

Agreed about the SFA, I've seen a bunch of threads where people have used 80 axles for swaps. Still, the 80 has soul IMO. No, it's not the end-all-be-all. But it has something that's hard to put your finger on. I guess maybe it's all the cool history and the track record. Not saying 100's and 200's aren't proven as well. All I'm getting at is there's a second kind of cool that comes with these machines. You can't buy that for a newer vehicle - it will either get earned with time or it won't.

 

[BigredTEX]

For the people mentioning engine swaps what's the likelihood you'll be able to recover 1/3 of that cost? I think unless you can do the swap yourself, swaps are really a no go from a a financial prospective. I'd love to do an LS/2UZ/etc swap myself , I've got the experience but I don't have the garage to do it in.

Fact of the matter is you can buy a brand new 1FZ-FE short block, rebuild the head and turbo it for probably about 11k. If eventually you want to sell you can recover at least a decent chunk of that money. You can still buy a brand new transmission as well.

Really something to consider is buying a 100 series and doing a SAS if you're looking for more power and factory Toyota reliability. Still expensive but you'll get the V8 and none of the cross platform stuff that gets tied in.

I seriously thought about using a 2UZ and had one in my garage at the time, but my son is using it in a 1st gen 4Runner swap. Keeping it all Toyota sounds good, but in reality using an LS platform is so much easier. I paid $7k for a new 4l80e trans, a certified LQ4, torque converter and wiring harness. The beauty of the LS is it takes 4 wires to fully integrate and make the thing run and you can re-flash the ECU for any kind of tune you want. The 2UZ option requires building your own harness, integrating the engine AND body ECUs and then not having access to the code to do any kind of tuning. The real hard part of any swap is converting from drive-by-cable to drive-by-wire and then all the little interface items, and that applies to keeping it Toyota or cross platform. All in, the swap portion of the build, with parts was not that expensive in the grand scheme and comparing to some other big shops that I've seen.

I like the 100 series idea with a SAS. V8 plus a modern interior.

 

[Wrencher93]

I seriously thought about using a 2UZ and had one in my garage at the time, but my son is using it in a 1st gen 4Runner swap. Keeping it all Toyota sounds good, but in reality using an LS platform is so much easier. I paid $7k for a new 4l80e trans, a certified LQ4, torque converter and wiring harness. The beauty of the LS is it takes 4 wires to fully integrate and make the thing run and you can re-flash the ECU for any kind of tune you want. The 2UZ option requires building your own harness, integrating the engine AND body ECUs and then not having access to the code to do any kind of tuning. The real hard part of any swap is converting from drive-by-cable to drive-by-wire and then all the little interface items, and that applies to keeping it Toyota or cross platform. All in, the swap portion of the build, with parts was not that expensive in the grand scheme and comparing to some other big shops that I've seen.

I like the 100 series idea with a SAS. V8 plus a modern interior.

This is the kind of information that I wanted when I started this thread. Having input from people that have seriously looked into and/or done swaps like this is invaluable.

 

[APhelps]

Agreed about the SFA, I've seen a bunch of threads where people have used 80 axles for swaps. Still, the 80 has soul IMO. No, it's not the end-all-be-all. But it has something that's hard to put your finger on. I guess maybe it's all the cool history and the track record. Not saying 100's and 200's aren't proven as well. All I'm getting at is there's a second kind of cool that comes with these machines. You can't buy that for a newer vehicle - it will either get earned with time or it won't.

Don't get me wrong I'll never tell someone what they should or shouldn't do with their money but I don't think the 80 is a vehicle that has soul. It's not cool/unique enough for me but I spent a large portion of my youth with Toyota Mr2s and Rx7s. I bought my 96 LX because I was annoyed with my 3rd gen 4runner and IFS, and unless the IFS is designed with a lifted geometry in mind it's not just not good if you ask me.

The 80 probably gets "cool ness" points for being the last SFA Toyota offered here but if the 105 series and 70 series were offered in the US you'd probably see the demand go down a lot. The 80 is decently big and its a tight squeeze sometimes for the very difficult trails out there that aren't in the buggie territory. If the stupid 25 year grey market rule and the other dumb importation laws didn't exist we could snag up some very cool/fun vehicles.

 

[Wrencher93]

Don't get me wrong I'll never tell someone what they should or shouldn't do with their money but I don't think the 80 is a vehicle that has soul. It's not cool/unique enough for me but I spent a large portion of my youth with Toyota Mr2s and Rx7s. I bought my 96 LX because I was annoyed with my 3rd gen 4runner and IFS, and unless the IFS is designed with a lifted geometry in mind it's not just not good if you ask me.

The 80 probably gets "cool ness" points for being the last SFA Toyota offered here but if the 105 series and 70 series were offered in the US you'd probably see the demand go down a lot. The 80 is decently big and its a tight squeeze sometimes for the very difficult trails out there that aren't in the buggie territory. If the stupid 25 year grey market rule and the other dumb importation laws didn't exist we could snag up some very cool/fun vehicles.

I agree about the 70 series being offered in the U.S. I'd love to have a diesel 70 series.

 

[APhelps]

I seriously thought about using a 2UZ and had one in my garage at the time, but my son is using it in a 1st gen 4Runner swap. Keeping it all Toyota sounds good, but in reality using an LS platform is so much easier. I paid $7k for a new 4l80e trans, a certified LQ4, torque converter and wiring harness. The beauty of the LS is it takes 4 wires to fully integrate and make the thing run and you can re-flash the ECU for any kind of tune you want. The 2UZ option requires building your own harness, integrating the engine AND body ECUs and then not having access to the code to do any kind of tuning. The real hard part of any swap is converting from drive-by-cable to drive-by-wire and then all the little interface items, and that applies to keeping it Toyota or cross platform. All in, the swap portion of the build, with parts was not that expensive in the grand scheme and comparing to some other big shops that I've seen.

I like the 100 series idea with a SAS. V8 plus a modern interior.

Yeah with the 2UZ you're not getting that much of a jump in power unless you can figure out a way to get the transmission to work. Not sure if anyone has but I'm sure there's a few mad scientists running around out there that could get it to work. I'm sure with an oscilloscope, a logic analyzer and some good ole fashion logic hacking you can do it though. The coil on plugs is a great bonus though, I really wish the distributor to COP swap was easier or that CARB/ARB wasn't a bunch of idiots.

I don't think the 2UZ needs that many wires either to get it to run, there's a few of them in 3rd gen 4runners at this point.

 

[baldilocks]

Cool. Then, consider adding a critical component to it before you go off-road: You need someone else's common sense. I beat the crap out of mine offroad. I'm not kind, and I'm not wise. I get home and I need an alignment, new TRE's, new steering gear ($800 - $1,300!), my exhaust needs to be repaired because a hanger broke or I pinched it, I abuse the birf's, the lockers, and everything else. When I get home, unless I've got $1,000 sitting around, it will sometimes limp for a few months until I can fix what I broke. I try to be good to it, but I just can't! I lose patience on a trail, I try something I shouldn't have, or I just want to flip mud in the face of the b@st*rd in the Jeep that smirked at me on the way in to the trail.

If it's your daily driver AND your fun vehicle, moderate your fun or plan your budget. I have a sticker on my dash that says, "Remember stupid, you have to drive it home."

It didn't help on my last trip. You have been warned.

-Remote reservoir shocks are a wise investment for doing 60MPH on washboard roads.

I just dropped a few Franklyn’s on a new crank pulley because the oil seal leaked again 4 years post replacement and the pulley seal surface shows significant wear at 302k miles. My rear driveline got knackered pretty good on some rocks back in September so there’s another couple hundred at least. But spending $1,000 after every off road event isn’t something that’s remotely common.

It’s important to buy the newest and most well maintained 80 you can afford at purchase time unless you are well off or a Cracker Jack mechanic. I would not consider an older car that spent any considerable amount of time in places where roads are salted during winter.

What’s the alternative to an older Toyota? Jeep? No thanks.... Late model Toyota’s loaded with electronics and IFS? No thanks?

I prefer to buy decent equipment that I have great appreciation for, get to know it very well and keep it going. My DD is a 2005 dodge turbo diesel that has only 166k miles on the clock. I’ve replaced some things on it (ignition switch is next) but in the long run, with a decent piece of equipment, I’ll save money over buying new. As for emissions, people seem to overlook the pollution that manufacturing causes. I won’t be demanding a new car for some years to come.

I believe that a lot of 80 owners don’t really need the off road capability it offers and are mostly caught up in the mystique of the vehicle. A 100 or even a Chevy Tahoe would serve better many 80 owners as these vehicles are newer and have a bit more power.

 

[thatcabledude]

I seriously thought about using a 2UZ and had one in my garage at the time, but my son is using it in a 1st gen 4Runner swap. Keeping it all Toyota sounds good, but in reality using an LS platform is so much easier. I paid $7k for a new 4l80e trans, a certified LQ4, torque converter and wiring harness. The beauty of the LS is it takes 4 wires to fully integrate and make the thing run and you can re-flash the ECU for any kind of tune you want. The 2UZ option requires building your own harness, integrating the engine AND body ECUs and then not having access to the code to do any kind of tuning. The real hard part of any swap is converting from drive-by-cable to drive-by-wire and then all the little interface items, and that applies to keeping it Toyota or cross platform. All in, the swap portion of the build, with parts was not that expensive in the grand scheme and comparing to some other big shops that I've seen.

I like the 100 series idea with a SAS. V8 plus a modern interior.

Drive by wire LS motors can be converted to drive by cable. That said, drive by wire is really easy. You just mount the GM pedal in a comfortable spot and route the wires. (I cut the pedal off and welded the LC pedal to the stub that was left)

 

[Wrencher93]

I just dropped a few Franklyn’s on a new crank pulley because the oil seal leaked again 4 years post replacement and the pulley seal surface shows significant wear at 302k miles. My rear driveline got knackered pretty good on some rocks back in September so there’s another couple hundred at least. But spending $1,000 after every off road event isn’t something that’s remotely common.

It’s important to buy the newest and most well maintained 80 you can afford at purchase time unless you are well off or a Cracker Jack mechanic. I would not consider an older car that spent any considerable amount of time in places where roads are salted during winter.

What’s the alternative to an older Toyota? Jeep? No thanks.... Late model Toyota’s loaded with electronics and IFS? No thanks?

I prefer to buy decent equipment that I have great appreciation for, get to know it very well and keep it going. My DD is a 2005 dodge turbo diesel that has only 166k miles on the clock. I’ve replaced some things on it (ignition switch is next) but in the long run, with a decent piece of equipment, I’ll save money over buying new. As for emissions, people seem to overlook the pollution that manufacturing causes. I won’t be demanding a new car for some years to come.

I believe that a lot of 80 owners don’t really need the off road capability it offers and are mostly caught up in the mystique of the vehicle. A 100 or even a Chevy Tahoe would serve better many 80 owners as these vehicles are newer and have a bit more power.

I tend to be the same way. I said this earlier in the thread and I'll repeat it here: When I bought mine I was like most 80 owners that haven't had a cruiser before - naive. Not 100%. I knew I didn't want a rust bucket and I knew I wanted one that had maintenance records. But there was a lot I didn't know. If we're being brutally honest the 3rd gen 4runner the 80 replaced was a more practical and useful vehicle than the 80 can ever hope to be. Why? Because it was 100% stock, got better mileage, and was ridiculously reliable for the laughable amount of maintenance it saw before I got it. I drove the crap out of that thing for 6 years and it never died on me a single time except when the battery finally gave up. So yeah, the 80 isn't the financial guru's first choice for keeping the jingle in your pocket. I also like to eat out now and again, wipe with mid-grade toilet paper, and even treat myself to a few nice tools. Some things in life are worth the extra trouble and coin.

 

[baldilocks]

Mid grade only??? My preferences and opinions differ somewhat but the reliability of the Landcruiser year by year post production can’t be questioned and offers more of everything to the owner than a 4Runner. The 4Runner was introduced in 1984 to compete in a new segment of smaller, more affordable and fuel economical vehicles made up of the Bronco 2 and S10 blazer. It was by no means a step up or even sideways for Toyota.

 

[Wrencher93]

Mid grade only??? My preferences and opinions differ somewhat but the reliability of the Landcruiser year by year post production can’t be questioned and offers more of everything to the owner than a 4Runner. The 4Runner was introduced in 1984 to compete in a new segment of smaller, more affordable and fuel economical vehicles made up of the Bronco 2 and S10 blazer. It was by no means a step up or even sideways for Toyota.

I wasn't trying to compare apples to apples with land cruiser vs 4runner. All I meant was the point of our discussion here isn't "what other vehicle could be used?". There are plenty of others - other series if land cruisers, other vehicles entirely. But that doesn't help the conversation unless we're all prepared to sell our 80's and move on to something else. I, for one, like mine and plan to keep it unless forced by unfortunate circumstances to do otherwise. That being said, I give a nod to everyone who has offered their advice on other platforms and how impractical the 80 is. I really do value the input. But the point has been made.

 

[Wrencher93]

I would, however, welcome input from people who have done an engine rebuild or swap. I know a couple guys have piped up already and I'm sure there's more. Again, my primary interest is the bigger picture for those of you who use your 80 as a family vehicle. That might mean DD to some, maybe not for others - but using it as a means to get you, your loved ones, friends, pets, and maybe even your favorite co-worker off the beaten path. This is how I plan to use mine and why we've all been jabbering on for 7 pages. For those of you who rebuilt your engine or still have the original drive train: have you experienced any failures or adverse wear from long road trips? What I'm getting at is having to rev the engine for extended periods of time to maintain highway speeds. Anybody see this trash their 80?

 

[Bludozer]

What I'm getting at is having to rev the engine for extended periods of time to maintain highway speeds. Anybody see this trash their 80?

I would be very surprised if even one person could say firmly that somewhat regular high revving killed their engine, that would be very difficult to say without a lot of speculation. Even if it wasn't though, the 1fz does very well at high RPMs, it simply eats it up. Rev it out, it doesn't care.

Bit of a sidenote, but that is only one of the many reasons I think swaps in the 80 are largely a crime. The 1FZ was such a well engineered powerplant. It's such a shame to rip out a tough as nails inline 6 with a cast iron block. If you simply cant take it and have to have more power, then boost it...it likes that too. IMO, people should be swapping them INTO vehicles like the video below, not OUT.

 

[Wrencher93]

I would be very surprised if even one person could say firmly that somewhat regular high revving killed their engine, that would be very difficult to say without a lot of speculation. Even if it wasn't though, the 1fz does very well at high RPMs, it simply eats it up. Rev it out, it doesn't care.

Bit of a sidenote, but that is only one of the many reasons I think swaps in the 80 are largely a crime. The 1FZ was such a well engineered powerplant. It's such a shame to rip out a tough as nails inline 6 with a cast iron block. If you simply cant take it and have to have more power, then boost it...it likes that too. IMO, people should be swapping them INTO vehicles like the video below, not OUT.

I've seen that video. If you don't want a turbo after seeing that I question your impeccable self-control.

 

[baldilocks]

Take a look at videos of what guys in the Middle East do with the 1fz. Think 2jz big brother.

 

[Wrencher93]

Take a look at videos of what guys in the Middle East do with the 1fz. Think 2jz big brother.

Yeah I've seen some pretty awesome dune bashing videos of turbo'd 80's. Those guys spend more in gas in a weekend than I probably will in several years

 

[Bludozer]

I believe that a lot of 80 owners don’t really need the off road capability it offers and are mostly caught up in the mystique of the vehicle.

Guilty. Wouldn't trade it for anything else though. The mystique is a real thing. It is not perfect, but it is the greatest production 4x4 ever made for so many reasons. There is an intangible it-factor to it that is palatable imo. I also like having something that is a true lifetime vehicle, it is infinitely rebuildable. Even if I don't need every ounce of its capability 95% of the time, owning one of these is pretty special. And besides, that 5% of the time I do need its full capability it has really been quite nice to have lol.

 

[Wrencher93]

Anybody have an aux tank to feed their 80? Seeing as how the offroad capability of these trucks isn't really disputed, I'm curious about the weak points. I have jerry cans and a way to mount them. Not a bad solution. I think an aux tank would be better. Thoughts?