Right tool for the job - a discussion of rig design and usage

[baldilocks]

I do not run the 10% lower high range T-case gears but do have the 3.12 low range gears. The 37’s did slow my rig down noticeably but my speedo and odometer are very accurate. The ETC button is permanently engaged and second gear scoots me up those mountain passes.

 

[Wrencher93]

And you're still running a NA 1FZ, right? No forced induction?

 

[baldilocks]

And you're still running a NA 1FZ, right? No forced induction?

Correct. This is where the motherly patience I mentioned before come in. Haha

 

[Wrencher93]

This gives me hope for this build. I think I've been underestimating my 80. Turbo or swap is still a theoretical upgrade in my future that I will continue to learn about but gears will happen eventually and seeing/hearing other people run 35's and larger tires without major powertrain modification is encouraging. I realize there are pros and cons but just the fact that these vehicles are capable of so many different configurations speaks to their versatile and durable design.

 

[Wrencher93]

That last post made it sound like I didn't know large tires existed haha. I have 315's now...just nice to know 37’s are attainable, whether I go there or not.

 

[desmocruiser]

Great thread title!

Sounds as you have a good start with the build and direction what you want to take it in the future!

Suspensions questions will get answers all over the board and many on that have been on the 80’s forum for a while have had a few different set ups as years progressed and needs changed.

My opinion and it is only that, keeping the drivetrain as near stock as possible, stay in the 3-4” lift range (315’s are fine IMO) and pack as light as possible are helpful steps to longevity with trail capability and enjoyment. I have one 80 with 295’s and a FOR 3.5” lift (you will have to search back ~10 years for Those fun arguments) and a Slee 4” running 315 Toyo MT‘s (TRD SC’d) and am happy with both for the designated purpose.

The need for bigger and more will really be best answered down the road.

How far you want to travel to enjoy.

The type of trails you want to wheel when you get there.

If the whole family is riding along as you intend, the passengers will often dictate the trail and obstacles before you run out of rig with a well built 80. On a couple of trips to Moab, my wife and the youngest when he was really young, would stay behind on a trail or 2 so the oldest and I could do some more difficult trails and more remote camping during those days.

If I were going to spend money to make more reliable: full axle rebuilds including brakes (good time for gears if towing is in your near plans), if I was concerned with current engine, I would order a new short block from Toyota redo the head and change all the maintenance items as I did the install, add a few creature comforts for the family and hit the trail. As you mentioned you may hit the road before you find the sort of trails You are hoping for!

Good Luck, sounds like some fun adventures ahead!

BTW what is the symptom you are addressing with a change in caster?

 

[dsmud4u]

I state those points because I've done them with multiple vehicles throughout my life.

When I was younger, I craved HP, but only had a little money. I did what I could and later learned that the more HP I built, it just moved the "fuse" somewhere else. By the time I got done chasing it, I started a family and it no longer fit the life requirements.

Then I had no money, just desires, and nothing happened.

Then kids got older and my income was higher. Now I don't have the time to do it all, and I don't have the desire to pay some other moron to do a half ass job of what I want him to do.

So, I am completely happy with a slightly modified, slower FZJ that will do my daily needs and help me be a little cool while taking me slowly and reliably where I want to go......

Yeah, checks out for me too.

 

[Wrencher93]

Great thread title!

Sounds as you have a good start with the build and direction what you want to take it in the future!

Suspensions questions will get answers all over the board and many on that have been on the 80’s forum for a while have had a few different set ups as years progressed and needs changed.

My opinion and it is only that, keeping the drivetrain as near stock as possible, stay in the 3-4” lift range (315’s are fine IMO) and pack as light as possible are helpful steps to longevity with trail capability and enjoyment. I have one 80 with 295’s and a FOR 3.5” lift (you will have to search back ~10 years for Those fun arguments) and a Slee 4” running 315 Toyo MT‘s (TRD SC’d) and am happy with both for the designated purpose.

The need for bigger and more will really be best answered down the road.

How far you want to travel to enjoy.

The type of trails you want to wheel when you get there.

If the whole family is riding along as you intend, the passengers will often dictate the trail and obstacles before you run out of rig with a well built 80. On a couple of trips to Moab, my wife and the youngest when he was really young, would stay behind on a trail or 2 so the oldest and I could do some more difficult trails and more remote camping during those days.

If I were going to spend money to make more reliable: full axle rebuilds including brakes (good time for gears if towing is in your near plans), if I was concerned with current engine, I would order a new short block from Toyota redo the head and change all the maintenance items as I did the install, add a few creature comforts for the family and hit the trail. As you mentioned you may hit the road before you find the sort of trails You are hoping for!

Good Luck, sounds like some fun adventures ahead!

BTW what is the symptom you are addressing with a change in caster?

Yes, I will keep the 315's for the foreseeable future because I have them and they work. My 80 is perfectly usable as-is so long as I get a few systems back to good health (brakes being one of them, my other thread is about to cover their replacement).

As far as the caster plates. I'm currently running the yellow caster correction bushings in the front control arms. They were installed several years ago by a PO. I didn’t even know they were there until I was looking over some old records and found mention of them. I crawled under the truck and whattaya know - there they were. The truck has been a little darty at highway speeds ever since I bought it. This being my first 80 and my first experience with large-ish tires, I wasn't sure what the culprit was. I started reading and ended up adjusting the set screw on the steering gear box as well as adjusting the toe on the front end. Both helped noticeably but it's still not where I'd like it to be in terms of how much driver attention is absorbed by keeping the tires straight at 70mph. After more self-education I realized a few things.
1.) Caster matters
2.) Caster affects more than just driveline angles (read vibrations) - it affects handling as well.

Those two things might be a no-brainer for someone who has worked on cars their whole life but I didn't grow up doing that. I grew up working with tools and building many things but vehicle diagnosis was not one of the things I was exposed to. In that area I'm self-taught. So I decided that if my family was going to ride multiple hundreds of miles in this truck when we move in a couple months - it had better be able to get them there safely and without causing a wreck. That means all new brake components except for the hard lines, brake booster, and calipers which I will rebuild. And it also means all new suspension bushings, including hardware and a set of caster plates. I'm hoping that the caster plates will make the driving experience a little more boring (read safe) and that it might help with front driveshaft vibration as well.

 

[jonheld]

My $0.02 based on daily driving an 80 since 1991. Our "new" LX450 is our road trip/wheeling vehicle. We've gone on several long trips over the last few years and she gets wheeled fairly hard when I get the chance.
7600 miles in 2017-Jersey to Cruise Moab to Vancouver and across the Trans-Canada to the east coast.
3200 miles in 2018-Around the Gaspe Peninsula
4600 miles in 2019-Newfoundland

Maintenance=reliability
These are industrial pieces of equipment and require periodic maintenance to keep systems in proper working order. The youngest 80 is now 23 years old. If you're not willing to put in the time and effort to bring all systems up to par, then the weakest link will fail. It's really a simple equation. If you wait for something to become a problem before addressing it, it will leave you stranded.
Always do your own maintenance so you know the truck inside and out. Don't rely on others to do things for you.

Drivability=comfort=less driver fatigue
The more you lift, the more you need to keep it on the road. 4" is as high as I would go. Correct caster and properly adjust toe in to get the truck to track properly.
The tires you choose will have a direct impact on ride quality and comfort. The more aggressive the tread pattern, the more road noise, the more fatigue.
I am partial to Goodyear Duratracs in the 315 size. They are the most aggressive "all terrain" tread out there, and are very good in all weather conditions.
Not the best tire for wheeling difficult terrain, but there are compromises with every choice. If I'm going out on a wheeling trip, I'll drag my Swampers with my trailer.
Proper gearing for tire size is important. 4.88 and 35s with a stock 1FZ-FE is decent, but it's still only 212 HP no matter how you slice it. I'm used to the right lane and I don't push it.
Replace the seat bottoms and backs with new OEM foam. I threw in seat heaters as well. Your ass will appreciate it.

 

[Wrencher93]

My $0.02 based on daily driving an 80 since 1991. Our "new" LX450 is our road trip/wheeling vehicle. We've gone on several long trips over the last few years and she gets wheel fairly hard when I get the chance.
7600 miles in 2017-Jersey to Cruise Moab to Vancouver and across the Trans-Canada to the east coast.
3200 miles in 2018-Around the Gaspe Peninsula
4600 miles in 2019-Newfoundland

Maintenance=reliability
These are industrial pieces of equipment and require periodic maintenance to keep systems in proper working order. The youngest 80 is now 23 years old. If you're not willing to put in the time and effort to bring all systems up to par, then the weakest link will fail. It's really a simple equation. If you wait for something to become a problem before addressing it, it will leave you stranded.
Always do your own maintenance so you know the truck inside and out. Don't rely on others to do things for you.

Drivability=comfort=less driver fatigue
The more you lift, the more you need to keep it on the road. 4" is as high as I would go. Correct caster and properly adjust toe in to get the truck to track properly.
The tires you choose will have a direct impact on ride quality and comfort. The more aggressive the tread pattern, the more road noise, the more fatigue.
I am partial to Goodyear Duratracs in the 315 size. They are the most aggressive "all terrain" tread out there, and are very good in all weather conditions.
Not the best tire for wheeling difficult terrain, but there are compromises with every choice. If I'm going out on a wheeling trip, I'll drag my Swampers with my trailer.
Proper gearing for tire size is important. 4.88 and 35s with a stock 1FZ-FE is decent, but it's still only 212 HP no matter how you slice it. I'm used to the right lane and I don't push it.
Replace the seat bottoms and backs with new OEM foam. I threw in seat heaters as well. Your ass will appreciate it.

I agree with maintenance = reliability. I have great respect for Toyota vehicles, especially land cruisers, but I'd rather depend on a cheaper, poorly designed vehicle that was pampered on the maintenance schedule than a well designed one that was left sitting to rot.

I have no issues doing things myself. I can admit when I don't know something and when that happens I either let a pro do it or learn a new skill. I prefer the new skill method but again, there's a time and place. So far the only thing I've let anyone other than me do to the 80 is balance the tires. I hope to keep it that way until I go for a rebuild - then I'll need some machine work done. But it seems like taking these trucks to the shop isn't the way to go unless your pockets are deep or you know the mech personally.

 

[desmocruiser]

Yes, I will keep the 315's for the foreseeable future because I have them and they work. My 80 is perfectly usable as-is so long as I get a few systems back to good health (brakes being one of them, my other thread is about to cover their replacement).

As far as the caster plates. I'm currently running the yellow caster correction bushings in the front control arms. They were installed several years ago by a PO. I didn’t even know they were there until I was looking over some old records and found mention of them. I crawled under the truck and whattaya know - there they were. The truck has been a little darty at highway speeds ever since I bought it. This being my first 80 and my first experience with large-ish tires, I wasn't sure what the culprit was. I started reading and ended up adjusting the set screw on the steering gear box as well as adjusting the toe on the front end. Both helped noticeably but it's still not where I'd like it to be in terms of how much driver attention is absorbed by keeping the tires straight at 70mph. After more self-education I realized a few things.
1.) Caster matters
2.) Caster affects more than just driveline angles (read vibrations) - it affects handling as well.

Those two things might be a no-brainer for someone who has worked on cars their whole life but I didn't grow up doing that. I grew up working with tools and building many things but vehicle diagnosis was not one of the things I was exposed to. In that area I'm self-taught. So I decided that if my family was going to ride multiple hundreds of miles in this truck when we move in a couple months - it had better be able to get them there safely and without causing a wreck. That means all new brake components except for the hard lines, brake booster, and calipers which I will rebuild. And it also means all new suspension bushings, including hardware and a set of caster plates. I'm hoping that the caster plates will make the driving experience a little more boring (read safe) and that it might help with front driveshaft vibration as well.

Yes you are correct caster matters more than just driveline vibrations and 80 series are known for varying caster from truck to truck.

If you haven’t already, I would get a current caster reading to make certain it is out of spec and how far before I made a change there. I too much prefer the plates, have used both Slee and LT, with new OEM bushings to aftermarket correction bushings, you just want to make certain you don’t get too much caster with plates and your lift.

If Caster is in spec and you are unhappy with the drivability I would begin by examining the spring combination you are currently running and yes this is a entirely new rabbit hole.

 

[Wrencher93]

Yes you are correct caster matters more than just driveline vibrations and 80 series are known for varying caster from truck to truck.

If you haven’t already, I would get a current caster reading to make certain it is out of spec and how far before I made a change there. I too much prefer the plates, have used both Slee and LT, with new OEM bushings to aftermarket correction bushings, you just want to make certain you don’t get too much caster with plates and your lift.

If Caster is in spec and you are unhappy with the drivability I would begin by examining the spring combination you are currently running and yes this is a entirely new rabbit hole.

What would be your preferred method for getting a current caster reading? I guess I have more reading to do...

 

[retrofive]

What would be your preferred method for getting a current caster reading? I guess I have more reading to do...

alignment shop. They'll toss some lasers and stuff on the corners for an accurate measurement.

 

[desmocruiser]

Take it to an alignment shop or dealership, you can probably find one that does a lifetime so you can get before and after measurements. Ideally you want to achieve 3* after lift.

I always ask for a print out of the measurements for my records.

 

[Wrencher93]

alignment shop. They'll toss some lasers and stuff on the corners for an accurate measurement.

Fair enough. I'll look into it.

 

[retrofive]

Fair enough. I'll look into it.

Wasn't trying to be short. Couple shops around here charge $15-20 to toss your truck on the rack and give you all the numbers.

 

[Wrencher93]

Wasn't trying to be short. Couple shops around here charge $15-20 to toss your truck on the rack and give you all the numbers.

Oh I wasn't offended. I appreciate the advice. Sorry if it seemed otherwise.

 

[desmocruiser]

An 80 with a well sorted suspension is a great driving rig, you will be very happy with the result when you get it there!

All part of the process, I fought one for weeks, including driveline vibes, before I got it sorted out and it became the benchmark for me on how I like trucks to ride!

 

[Broski]

Just as you title implies. No one set up well be right for all jobs. If you daily drive you reg it won't be the best off- roader, Like wise if you build it in to a rock crawler it's not going to be a good DD. It all come down to how you want to use you Reg ( and I mean YOU ) because if you ask 6 Guys what makes the best Over-lander your going to get 6 different answers. This is not a inexpensive Hobby/sport how much CASH you have well dictate your build.
I would call mine a street legal Trail Reg, 39s on a 3" lift, I got it bone stock, went to 35s then 37s and now 39s. But I prefer to trailer it to the trails and I like to run the had lines.

Day one

Current setup.

Again it all comes down to how you are going to use you Reg and how much money you have to throw at it.
The land Cruiser 80 is one of the most capable stock Regs ever produced. JMHO, enjoy it as is modify as necessary/funds permit

 

[Wrencher93]

Just as you title implies. No one set up well be right for all jobs. If you daily drive you reg it won't be the best off- roader, Like wise if you build it in to a rock crawler it's not going to be a good DD. It all come down to how you want to use you Reg ( and I mean YOU ) because if you ask 6 Guys what makes the best Over-lander your going to get 6 different answers. This is not a inexpensive Hobby/sport how much CASH you have well dictate your build.
I would call mine a street legal Trail Reg, 39s on a 3" lift, I got it bone stock, went to 35s then 37s and now 39s. But I prefer to trailer it to the trails and I like to run the had lines. View attachment 2462228
Day one
View attachment 2462230
Current setup.

Again it all comes down to how you are going to use you Reg and how much money you have to throw at it.
The land Cruiser 80 is one of the most capable stock Regs ever produced. JMHO, enjoy it as is modify as necessary/funds permit

Agreed, there is no true does-everything-perfectly vehicle. I'm simply casting a line and trying to snag as many perspectives and opinions (fact based ones) as I can so I can make informed decisions. I'm under no illusions that this is about me, my family, and our 80 for our own specific uses. But I know many of you have a lot of hours behind the wheel of your 80 and many hours turning a wrench on it too - so the more informed I can be the easier and better my decisions will be.