replacing AHC globes/accumulators (3 Viewers)

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146K 2005 LX just changed globes, Impex $680 (thanks for info and experience)
Not a lot of change to the ride, not much change from comfy to sport, but have bleed twice
Improved gradations from 9 to over 16
What is funny is the accumulator and 2 rear globes bleed clear, but 2 front globes first bleed clear right out of the nipple and then within
2/3 seconds many very small bubbles form out of the clear fluid, then drain into the bottle foamy, after 5 minutes foam is clear
It's like the gas (nitrogen, maybe air?) comes out of the fluid at atmospheric pressure
Nothing like bleeding brakes with large 1 -3 mm sized bubbles
Anybody else seen this? know what might be going on
Thanks

Agree with @halbeezy and to add to those comments:

Obviously, 'bubbles' mean gas in the system. Could be nitrogen from failed 'globes' -- not likely with new 'globes' but residual gas in the system from old failed 'globes' may be a possibility. More likely, the source is air which, despite all efforts, has found its way into the system during the 'globe' change-out, or, has been there for a long time.

Different to the brake system, the AHC system has some areas where old fluid and air can stubbornly resist efforts to removal. It cannot be flushed by simply by passing fluid through the system. This can take a lot of persistence involving several raising and lowering cycles and many bleeding cycles, depending on how much air is trapped or entrained, and where it is located.

Happily, this situation does not happen every time bleeding is undertaken and very often the process is straightforward -- but not always.

Consider the diagrams below, for example, when air trapped in the fluid in the 'Height Control Accumulator', or, trapped far away in the 'Shock Absorbers', or, sitting in one of the longer fluid lines.

This can take a lot of effort to remove -- won't happen just by cautiously opening the bleeder valves -- it will need repeating the "PADDO Method"** multiple times, and/or adapting the method such as by the suggestion above by @halbeezy .

Persistent bubbles is one indication of such circumstances. To resolve the problem, each cycle needs to include causing the Height Control Accumulator to empty and refill multiple times, and, raising and lowering the vehicle to causing the 'Shock Absorbers' to fill then displace their contents multiple times, then bleeding each time at each of the five points, with vehicle in the "LO" position and allowing it to descend completely as each bleed point is opened.

**
AHC System Lowering -- fluid is released from 'Shock Absorbers': ECU opens the Levelling Valves in the Control Valve Assembly, fluid exits each 'Shock Absorber by passing up the internal central tube in the direction of the arrow, allowing the vehicle to lower. Pump is OFF, so the Return Valve is CLOSED and fluid passes TO the AHC Tank
AHC System - Lowering.jpg




AHC System Raising -- fluid is sent to 'Shock Absorbers': ECU opens Levelling Valves in the Control Valve Assembly and causes AHC Pump to operate, thereby sending fluid to the 'Shock Absorbers'. Fluid passes down the central internal tubes in the direction of the arrow, filling the 'Shock Absorber' and causing vehicle to rise. The Pump is ON, so the Return Valve is OPEN and fluid is drawn FROM the AHC Tank

AHC System - Raising.jpg


It also is worth noting that air can dissolve in the AHC fluid under pressure and emerge as a gas (per Henry's Law) when the pressure drops -- such as when leaving the pressure side of the system during the bleeding process and becoming visible in the bleeding tube or container receiving the fluid, or when arriving at the AHC Tank. It is nice to save fluid but that is a secondary objective -- the main game is to be in no doubt that all air has been displaced from the system -- no bubbles in the exit stream after a long bleed. Be wary of re-using fluid unless very, very sure that it does not contain any entrained air -- and this may be difficult to see.

Various IH8MUD threads including the lead-up to Post #243 by @aharlan001 shows how frustrating this can be:

AHC Inop after fluid change 2007 lx C1751 and C1762 - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/ahc-inop-after-fluid-change-2007-lx-c1751-and-c1762.1233088/page-13#post-13517321

There are multiple other IH8MUD examples and their causes may be different -- and I have had my own bad experiences with remnant air in the system. The common ground is that a lot of persistence may be required to remove it.

Finally, it is worth being conscious of how and when the Height Control Accumulator operates, as set out in the FSM. The solenoid valve on the front end of the Accumulator normally is closed. It opens only when instructed by the ECU when actually raising the vehicle, or, when the Accumulator is being re-charged by the AHC Pump after a raise. This is described below and in greater detail with limitations explained in the FSM. There is little point in bleeding the Height Control Accumulator unless it is fully charged. If nothing or very little comes out, then the Accumulator is in a discharged state with nothing or very little in it.

It is possible that the Height Control Accumulator and/or its solenoid valve are faulty. That would be unusual -- and can be detected by observation and testing per FSM.

AHC Height Control Accumulator FSM extract.jpg

The point of all this is that if air, or fluid loaded with air, is "trapped" in the system somewhere between the six exit points (the sixth exit point is where fluid returns to the AHC Tank), it may shuffle backwards and forwards until repetition finally brings it to an exit.
 
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My issue turned out to be a bad rear height control sensor. Total dealership cost to repair was $425. This seemed a bit high but I'm just ready to be done with it. I already paid $140 at the local 4x4 shop to try and diagnose the issue. The dealership did give me a loaner vehicle which I'll have until the repair is completed on 8/4. I got a 2021 RX350 with only 2200 miles on it. Car is ugly as heck. They were originally going to loan me a GX but I asked for this one because I was considering something similar for my wife. I now wish I would have gone with the GX. I'm also not used to modern vehicles so all the computer gadgets and screens is a bit much.
 
My issue turned out to be a bad rear height control sensor. Total dealership cost to repair was $425. This seemed a bit high but I'm just ready to be done with it. I already paid $140 at the local 4x4 shop to try and diagnose the issue. The dealership did give me a loaner vehicle which I'll have until the repair is completed on 8/4. I got a 2021 RX350 with only 2200 miles on it. Car is ugly as heck. They were originally going to loan me a GX but I asked for this one because I was considering something similar for my wife. I now wish I would have gone with the GX. I'm also not used to modern vehicles so all the computer gadgets and screens is a bit much.
Success!!

And deep apologies -- I overlooked an important point in your previous notes. You did say “…. found Front raises but not the Rear” and that was a significant -- and some would say obvious -- observation for diagnosis!

Pricing did not seem unreasonable for a quick, get-it-done repair:
Part No. 89407-60010 Rear Height Control Sensor Assembly
Toyota USA USD600.56 MSRP (would be similar in Australia) -- plus labor to fit and adjust,
Partsouq UAE USD210.95 + delivery -- and if OK with the delivery time (of say a couple of weeks) -- plus labor to fit and adjust.

Anyway, the main thing is that the story had a happy ending.
 
Success!!

And deep apologies -- I overlooked an important point in your previous notes. You did say “…. found Front raises but not the Rear” and that was a significant -- and some would say obvious -- observation for diagnosis!

Pricing did not seem unreasonable for a quick, get-it-done repair:
Part No. 89407-60010 Rear Height Control Sensor Assembly
Toyota USA USD600.56 MSRP (would be similar in Australia) -- plus labor to fit and adjust,
Partsouq UAE USD210.95 + delivery -- and if OK with the delivery time (of say a couple of weeks) -- plus labor to fit and adjust.

Anyway, the main thing is that the story had a happy ending.
Very true, I was expecting a much worse diagnosis and cost to repair. Thanks for your detailed help with this issue. I'll be glad to have my truck back 8 days from now assuming all goes well.
 
How much fluid you guys going through for the flush? I want to get more fluid on order before my new globes arrive.

I recently replaced my fluid with the paddo method back in December, but I figure I'll just replace the fluid again. Are you supposed to reuse flushed fluid?
 
How much fluid you guys going through for the flush? I want to get more fluid on order before my new globes arrive.

I recently replaced my fluid with the paddo method back in December, but I figure I'll just replace the fluid again. Are you supposed to reuse flushed fluid?
I would not reuse. Flushing 6 qts isn't unreasonable, imo. It's hard to get all the old out. Buy fluid via mcgeorge. $17 a bottle.
 
I would not reuse. Flushing 6 qts isn't unreasonable, imo. It's hard to get all the old out. Buy fluid via mcgeorge. $17 a bottle.

Agree with @suprarx7nut.

Way back in 2016, @PADDO mentioned using a 2.5 litre drum of AHC Fluid (Part No. 08886-01805) which is still the way it is sold in my part of the world, or, three of the 1 litre bottles of AHC Fluid (Part No. 08886-81221) as sold in USA. I am not as efficient as @PADDO – it takes me more cycles, more effort and more AHC Fluid to be sure of getting rid of all air!

I make sure that I have three 2.5 litre drums of AHC Fluid (7.5 litres = 8 quarts) on hand before I start, especially if the system has been opened to replace 'globes' or other parts, although two 2.5 litre drums (5.3 quarts) usually turns out to sufficient. It is no fun running short of fresh AHC Fluid part way through the job.

Strongly recommend always using only the genuine stuff – using substitutes has a high risk of early death of ‘globes’ due to degradation of the membranes or degradation of other parts and may form a sludge leading to blockages elsewhere in the system.

Some would say that it is a conservative approach but personally I insist on fresh AHC Fluid and avoid re-use of previously used AHC Fluid. For me, there is too much risk of invisible entrained air or dissolved air in previously used fluid and too much risk of detritus (junk or sludge) picked up in the system by the previously used fluid. It is hard enough to get air and junk out of the system without risking putting air and junk back into the system by using previously used fluid -- and then finding that a whole lot of unwanted re-work has to be done re-bleeding the system again.

The discussion in this old 2016 thread starting at Post #4 is a good refresher course:
Props to PADDO's AHC fluid replacement method! - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/props-to-paddos-ahc-fluid-replacement-method.925459/#post-10337483
 
Completed the swap. For some reason I thought I needed to bleed the accumulator but I hadn’t been spraying that bleeder with penetrating oil so it snapped off. After trying to drill it out and snapping off an extractor I punted on that and completed the globe swap. The Seafoam Deep Creep penetrating oil worked really well. I applied it about 4 times over 7 days. Happy with how well it worked and easily the bleeders opened and globes came off. Bleeding the air out went well. I ended up using nearly all of 4 quarts of suspension fluid I bought for the job.

I also bought the globes through impex, ended up right around $670 with shipping. Purchased the suspension fluid locally. Was less than $10 more than online when factoring in shipping and they had 4 quarts in stock. I purchased a 36 mm wrench off Amazon. It was nice but too thick to work, even though it was listed as a clutch fan wrench, so I’ll have to return that. The rental from my local NAPA worked great. Took about 6 hours with at least 2-3 hours wasted on the broken bleeder.

Test ride was fine but was underwhelming at best. Maybe a bit smoother, I was expecting more based on the foamy fluid that came out. Will end up bleeding again when I replace the accumulator any was so hopefully I can feel more improvement then. I did see 12-14 graduations afterwards which is much improved from the 8 I had 2 years ago.
 
Completed the swap. For some reason I thought I needed to bleed the accumulator but I hadn’t been spraying that bleeder with penetrating oil so it snapped off. After trying to drill it out and snapping off an extractor I punted on that and completed the globe swap. The Seafoam Deep Creep penetrating oil worked really well. I applied it about 4 times over 7 days. Happy with how well it worked and easily the bleeders opened and globes came off. Bleeding the air out went well. I ended up using nearly all of 4 quarts of suspension fluid I bought for the job.

I also bought the globes through impex, ended up right around $670 with shipping. Purchased the suspension fluid locally. Was less than $10 more than online when factoring in shipping and they had 4 quarts in stock. I purchased a 36 mm wrench off Amazon. It was nice but too thick to work, even though it was listed as a clutch fan wrench, so I’ll have to return that. The rental from my local NAPA worked great. Took about 6 hours with at least 2-3 hours wasted on the broken bleeder.

Test ride was fine but was underwhelming at best. Maybe a bit smoother, I was expecting more based on the foamy fluid that came out. Will end up bleeding again when I replace the accumulator any was so hopefully I can feel more improvement then. I did see 12-14 graduations afterwards which is much improved from the 8 I had 2 years ago.
I had to bleed 3 full times during my globe C swap to get all the bubbles out.
 
Thanks for the diagrams, tutorials, and input. Bled a third time, still microbubbles coming out of fronts after exiting nipple clear. More noticeable transition from comfort to sport. Waiting on 6 more quarts of AHC fluid to arrive to bleed more.
Thanks
 
I had to bleed 3 full times during my globe C swap to get all the bubbles out.
I did go around 3 times but only the last two really let it pressurize well. Left front was the only one that had the tiny off gassing bubbles otherwise all were clear. Might give it some time and then do a quick bleed again in a week or so.
 
I had to bleed 3 full times during my globe C swap to get all the bubbles out.
So you used about 7-8 liters total? Man. AHC fluid is bringing up the cost of the fix! But considering it hasn’t been done on my LX for about 160k miles, it makes sense. And it’s still cheaper than a new suspension system.

How’s the system performing after all the bleeding?
 
So you used about 7-8 liters total? Man. AHC fluid is bringing up the cost of the fix! But considering it hasn’t been done on my LX for about 160k miles, it makes sense. And it’s still cheaper than a new suspension system.

How’s the system performing after all the bleeding?
LOL well i spilled a lot and things got messy. I am not very awesome with a wrench. The ride is amazing after everything, '
 
Noticed some mudders posting that this change was underwhelming for them and considering that the pre-globe replacement state of everyone's AHC system is different that is understandable, but for me this repair made a significant difference in the ride. I couldn't be happier with how smooth it is and the improvement in handling, especially in the turns - so stable, like a mountain goat, no more float and sway. This was an original AHC system with 299K on it, so keep that in mind. Additionally, I went through 3 rounds of bleeding after cycling the system and driving the truck - each round made a difference and I was able to remove some additional air. So, for those that are underwhelmed I would suggest bleeding another time or maybe I'm just sensitive to how the truck handles. For reference, pressures were in spec but I could only get 5-6 graduations of change before the replacement. I used 3L of AHC fluid in total (I definitely bled the lines more than others or was just messy.) I'll check the pressures next week and make the final adjustments to the TBs if needed.
 
My 2c - had posted in the Impex thread.

Got my globes all replaced - had some bubbles in old fluid from LT rear globe - possible ongoing failure.

Bled afterward until clear clean fluid - took for a spin marked difference in ride quality and dampening control on the highway particularly. Very happy I chose to keep the AHC now to address some additional bushings or control arm replacement.

Oddest outcome - seems to have dropped my neutral pressures in the rear - possibly the air in system was interfering.
Setup - replaced all sway link bushings, adjusted sensor height sitting at 20.25" front 21" rear. 30mm spacers in rear and cranked TB in front -

Pressures prior to globe replacement with all above and cross-level:
Front 7.0
Rear 6.9

Pressures after globe replacement
Front 6.8
Rear 5.5

15/16 gradations prior was 7
 
Noticed some mudders posting that this change was underwhelming for them and considering that the pre-globe replacement state of everyone's AHC system is different that is understandable, but for me this repair made a significant difference in the ride. I couldn't be happier with how smooth it is and the improvement in handling, especially in the turns - so stable, like a mountain goat, no more float and sway. This was an original AHC system with 299K on it, so keep that in mind. Additionally, I went through 3 rounds of bleeding after cycling the system and driving the truck - each round made a difference and I was able to remove some additional air. So, for those that are underwhelmed I would suggest bleeding another time or maybe I'm just sensitive to how the truck handles. For reference, pressures were in spec but I could only get 5-6 graduations of change before the replacement. I used 3L of AHC fluid in total (I definitely bled the lines more than others or was just messy.) I'll check the pressures next week and make the final adjustments to the TBs if needed.
fantastic advice. Totally same experience here with an 00 with 205K.
 
For clarity I’ll add that my ride wasn’t terrible prior to this swap, certainly not bouncy or unsettled so that could be part of the minimal improvement in ride quality I felt. I also have E rated tires which likely doesn’t help.

I’ll be checking my pressures in the next few days to see where those are at and will make any adjustments based on that info.

My main issue was the vehicle seemed to adjust height too frequently and would have a hard timing getting up to N when loaded heavy and the minimal graduations I was seeing had me thinking the globes were on their way out.
 
fantastic advice. Totally same experience here with an 00 with 205K.
Anyone know if there is a way to test the old globes? I tried the pencil test and all of them passed. My rig only has 158K on it. I'm kinda wondering what to do with the old globes. Throw them out or maybe take them to a junk yard?
 
Anyone know if there is a way to test the old globes? I tried the pencil test and all of them passed. My rig only has 158K on it. I'm kinda wondering what to do with the old globes. Throw them out or maybe take them to a junk yard?
Please send them to me. I will pre-pay shipping and send you a label.

We are planning to stock these at ADGU after creating a test rig to verify the gas quantity remaining (and scrapping those that are verified below a certain volume).

To determine globe health my plan is to use a bench-mounted setup with an AHC pump plumbed up to a single globe (gas chamber). Noting the fluid level on a graduated cylinder, we'll pressurize the mini-system to a given pressure. Quantity of fluid displaced is proportional to the globe's health. We'll be able to com up with a % value to represent 100 (new) and 0 (totally dead). Since new globes yield 14 grads and effectively useless globes yield 7-8 on a 100 series, I'm planning on 50% health being useless.

Anyways, no easy way to test a globe unless you custom make something. We'll be making that something. Shoot me an email or PM and I'll get you a pre-paid label. Happy to trade for a discounted YotaMD fob or small something off an SS1 system if you're so inclined.
 
Please send them to me. I will pre-pay shipping and send you a label.

We are planning to stock these at ADGU after creating a test rig to verify the gas quantity remaining (and scrapping those that are verified below a certain volume).

To determine globe health my plan is to use a bench-mounted setup with an AHC pump plumbed up to a single globe (gas chamber). Noting the fluid level on a graduated cylinder, we'll pressurize the mini-system to a given pressure. Quantity of fluid displaced is proportional to the globe's health. We'll be able to com up with a % value to represent 100 (new) and 0 (totally dead). Since new globes yield 14 grads and effectively useless globes yield 7-8 on a 100 series, I'm planning on 50% health being useless.

Anyways, no easy way to test a globe unless you custom make something. We'll be making that something. Shoot me an email or PM and I'll get you a pre-paid label. Happy to trade for a discounted YotaMD fob or small something off an SS1 system if you're so inclined.

I have my old set sitting here in garage if you are interested. Produced ~7 gradations at correct neutral pressures. 250k on truck original globes per dates but truck has been highly maintained had fairly clean fluid in the system.
 

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