Builds Reconstruction after rollover - building The Champ 2. (1 Viewer)

[baldilocks]

The two lateral battery tray mounts were both broken off so I picked up a new tray. It took a good bit of massaging to make the new tray fit. I modified the inboard hold down rod so as to make it thinner allowing a bit of clearance for the big group 31 battery at its lower attach point. This AGM 31M battery weighs 75 pounds. My neighbor kid is 12 now so hopefully in 7 years or so when I need to swap it out he will be up to the job because I don’t if I will be haha …..

 

[Broski]

They twist, like so:

View attachment 2877592

I going to chime in here.

1) @ nukegoat Reg is bad a** the suspension has been modified to articulate well past the OEM set up

2) The link ends that come with the kit have 50 degrees of misalignment 25 each way. the only way that arm could bend like that is the link end maxed out, at that point either the link end fails of the arm bends. frankly I'm surprised the link end held up.

3) Link ends with more misalignment like the ones baldilocks and I are running 65 degrees of misalignment would help, but I'm not sure if it would be enough for Nukegoat's set up

4) The way baldilocks and I have our link end mounted ( turned 90 degrees ) theres no way you could bend the arm that way, the link end has a unlimited amount of misalignment in that direction.

5) I have a few trips on this set up including the Rubicon, Swap Lake and a week in Sand Hollow with no issue

 

[nukegoat]

I just find it disappointing that the way Currie expects the sway bar arm to be used results in it bending

 

[Broski]

I just find it disappointing that the way Currie expects the sway bar arm to be used results in it bending

Agreed

 

[Bambusiero]

Do I understand correctly about the Antirock CE-9906-21 Universal swaybar kit is 50" long x 1" dia. bar?
And they offer no other diameters for roll stiffness tuning - that I could find... so there is only the bar location / arm length as a tuning method - right?
And...if I recall @jcardona1 did this with a bar from another company(I can't recall who) but who claimed an improved spline design - who no longer offers it?

Anyone ever find a viable solution for this in the circle track racing business - where tuning is always a big deal ?

 

[baldilocks]

Do I understand correctly about the Antirock CE-9906-21 Universal swaybar kit is 50" long x 1" dia. bar?
And they offer no other diameters for roll stiffness tuning - that I could find... so there is only the bar location / arm length as a tuning method - right?
And...if I recall @jcardona1 did this with a bar from another company(I can't recall who) but who claimed an improved spline design - who no longer offers it?

Anyone ever find a viable solution for this in the circle track racing business - where tuning is always a big deal ?

I have nothing pertinent to say here because I didn’t do much research and just followed the lead of other members. Some AntiRock models do come with 3 or 4 holes in the arms for rod end placement offering a degree of available tuning.

The stock bar is 1” thick also and I found this to be helpful because that’s one less variable to consider. My pivot points ended up 17.25” apart instead of 21” as they were before I figured out where I wanted to weld the tabs on the axle and how far rearward I could put the tube through the frame without interfering with the rear bumper supports and then cut the arms accordingly. I figured that an overall arm length of 17.25 would work fine because the stock bar arms are something like 18” or maybe 18.5”. My rig isn’t “tuned” for anything high speed, competitive, or anything in particular other than the needs of an average Joe wheeler. If it works, doesn’t break, and doesnt make me too queazy to drive I’m satisfied.

I’ve driven this sway bar a bit on the road and it feels at least as helpful as the stock bar did. Off road testing will tell the truth about my work though.

 

[Broski]

Do I understand correctly about the Antirock CE-9906-21 Universal swaybar kit is 50" long x 1" dia. bar?
And they offer no other diameters for roll stiffness tuning - that I could find... so there is only the bar location / arm length as a tuning method - right?
And...if I recall @jcardona1 did this with a bar from another company(I can't recall who) but who claimed an improved spline design - who no longer offers it?

Anyone ever find a viable solution for this in the circle track racing business - where tuning is always a big deal ?

JMHO circle track racing and rock crawling are like apples and oranges.

The anti-rock swaybar was designed around off-road driving and rock crawling if you look up the kit in question it’s for a jeep JK with a universal mount and the reason the kit was picked is the JK it’s about the same weight and size as a 80 series so the bar and arm length should be close to what a 80 would need.
They also happen to have a Perfect length bar

Again JMHO i’ve had mine on for quite a while and I am very impressed with how it works on and Off Road.

 

[Bambusiero]

There's certainly no argument with real world experience - I did it and it works well...can't be trumped.

Any thoughts I have about tuning this - in the context of 80 Landcruiser...are about :
1) Having full articulation without over-twisting the bar beyond it's elastic limit. So it lasts.
- Some have overstressed the OEM bar.
- For a given length - a thicker bar will overstress at lower degrees of twist - and a thinner bar could twist further without overstress.
- And - For a given length - shorter arm length is stiffer, but can't travel as far - longer arm length - just the opposite.
- So - some tradeoffs and tuning aspects there.
2) Having a good balance of roll stiffness between front and back - for offroad, and for highway use. (probably two conflicting needs)

The OEM bar and this one both about 1" dia...well, a good enough practical starting point but...there are significant differences :
- The effective twisting length of this bar is longer. - making it less stiff.
- The OEM bar has springey bendable arms - that's part of it's overall stiffness.
- This bar has nominally non-bending stiff arms. (except for @nukegoat )
- The OEM bar has some rubber bushing compliance - for small movements at least.
- This bar has non-compliant bushings - that makes it more "road racey" (maybe more annoying? hard to say)
- The math formula for sway bar stiffness is very sensitive for diameter, if i recall correctly.
- All those bends and arms makes the stiffness calculation pretty-much guesswork for the OEM arm - more simple and direct for this type.

As far as - circle track racing and rock crawling are like apples and oranges - well, not in my mind. - A sway bar is a sway bar, no matter if on a grocery getter or a road race car. Exactly the same concept and same basic goal - many applications. I'm happy to "culturally appropriate" whenever possible.

 

[Broski]

There's certainly no argument with real world experience - I did it and it works well...can't be trumped.

Any thoughts I have about tuning this - in the context of 80 Landcruiser...are about :
1) Having full articulation without over-twisting the bar beyond it's elastic limit. So it lasts.
- Some have overstressed the OEM bar.
- For a given length - a thicker bar will overstress at lower degrees of twist - and a thinner bar could twist further without overstress.
- And - For a given length - shorter arm length is stiffer, but can't travel as far - longer arm length - just the opposite.
- So - some tradeoffs and tuning aspects there.
2) Having a good balance of roll stiffness between front and back - for offroad, and for highway use. (probably two conflicting needs)

The OEM bar and this one both about 1" dia...well, a good enough practical starting point but...there are significant differences :
- The effective twisting length of this bar is longer.
- The OEM bar has springey bendable arms - that's part of it's overall stiffness.
- This bar has nominally non-bending stiff arms. (except for @nukegoat )
- The OEM bar has some rubber bushing compliance - for small movements at least.
- This bar has non-compliant bushings - that makes it more "road racey" (maybe more annoying? hard to say)

As far as - circle track racing and rock crawling are like apples and oranges - well, not in my mind. - A sway bar is a sway bar, no matter if on a grocery getter or a road race car. Exactly the same concept and same basic goal - many applications. I'm happy to "culturally appropriate" whenever possible.

Sounds like you have the answers to all your own questions the peanut Gallery need not reply.

 

[nukegoat]

There's certainly no argument with real world experience - I did it and it works well...can't be trumped.

Any thoughts I have about tuning this - in the context of 80 Landcruiser...are about :
1) Having full articulation without over-twisting the bar beyond it's elastic limit. So it lasts.
- Some have overstressed the OEM bar.
- For a given length - a thicker bar will overstress at lower degrees of twist - and a thinner bar could twist further without overstress.
- And - For a given length - shorter arm length is stiffer, but can't travel as far - longer arm length - just the opposite.
- So - some tradeoffs and tuning aspects there.
2) Having a good balance of roll stiffness between front and back - for offroad, and for highway use. (probably two conflicting needs)

The OEM bar and this one both about 1" dia...well, a good enough practical starting point but...there are significant differences :
- The effective twisting length of this bar is longer. - making it less stiff.
- The OEM bar has springey bendable arms - that's part of it's overall stiffness.
- This bar has nominally non-bending stiff arms. (except for @nukegoat )
- The OEM bar has some rubber bushing compliance - for small movements at least.
- This bar has non-compliant bushings - that makes it more "road racey" (maybe more annoying? hard to say)
- The math formula for sway bar stiffness is very sensitive for diameter, if i recall correctly.
- All those bends and arms makes the stiffness calculation pretty-much guesswork for the OEM arm - more simple and direct for this type.

As far as - circle track racing and rock crawling are like apples and oranges - well, not in my mind. - A sway bar is a sway bar, no matter if on a grocery getter or a road race car. Exactly the same concept and same basic goal - many applications. I'm happy to "culturally appropriate" whenever possible.

I would prefer having different bar options but the length is kind of funky. So.. it works. For what it's worth I run my Schroeder up front which allows swapping bars. Much nicer.

Ultimately the bar is just a spring. And likely a lighter spring than the stock one

 

[Bambusiero]

...For what it's worth I run my Schroeder up front which allows swapping bars. Much nicer...

That's good info - noted for the future - Thanks. From their website - might be the kind of outfit that can make whatever you need since they seem to do that for their racecar customers anyway.

 

[Broski]

For what it's worth the main reason I went with this style of sway bar is the packing, it's up out of harm's way. no low hanging fruit !!

The rock-jock is designed to slow body movement well still allowing articulation with out having sway bar disconnects.

If one is not running extreme trails then theirs no reason to use this type of sway bar.

If you want your 80 to handle better at high speed say on fire road type driving the maybe a heavy duty Whiteline in the factory location would better suited.

Disclaimer, I'm no sway bar or suspension expert, but I don't think what works for a King of the hammers racer is the same as what works for a short track racer

 

[spyduh]

Wow. My bar has not twisted. But my axle bracket has slightly bent on my passenger side. I think it's too long and I need to cut and shorten it. Either that or gussets.

 

[jcardona1]

Do I understand correctly about the Antirock CE-9906-21 Universal swaybar kit is 50" long x 1" dia. bar?
And they offer no other diameters for roll stiffness tuning - that I could find... so there is only the bar location / arm length as a tuning method - right?
And...if I recall @jcardona1 did this with a bar from another company(I can't recall who) but who claimed an improved spline design - who no longer offers it?

Anyone ever find a viable solution for this in the circle track racing business - where tuning is always a big deal ?

I have the RuffStuff version. I'm pretty sure they still have them, but they're all custom built so it's not something you can just order from their website. This thing is stupid overkill for an 80 but I had a store credit to use and bought the other components when they had their 25% off sales in the past, so it wasn't too bad. Probably spent close to what a Currie kit costs.

A few months ago I bought the Currie kit for the front but it's still sitting in the box. Haven't had time to figure out how to make it work.

 

[Marco Lau]

For what's its worth, i wheel with tons of jeeps, mostly rock crawlers. and none of them like to run the antirock swaybars anyways. With that said, possibly having very different results on the 80 series chassis.

 

[Bambusiero]

Also a FWIW comment - only to trigger deeper considerations in folks looking at this kind of thing - I was much more impressed with the general design aspects for the splined lever arm in the RuffStuff than in the Currie design. Although the RuffStuff requires fab skills, where the Currie is bolt-on - but, on the other hand the RuffStuff design is very versatile and could be altered/customized in almost any way needed with very basic cut/drilled/bent cold-rolled steel pieces - welded up. The RuffStuff hollow arm could be easily nearly as slim, just as strong, and much lighter than the Currie solid arm. Actually, if I were to go with the Currie Antirock, I would cut the solid arm a few inches from the spline, and fab a custom hollow box-section triangulated truss arm to suite my exact needs - would incorporate a beveled anti-frame impact "slipper" pad. For those reasons I would choose a steel spline over aluminum.

 

[jcardona1]

I going to chime in here.

1) @ nukegoat Reg is bad a** the suspension has been modified to articulate well past the OEM set up

2) The link ends that come with the kit have 50 degrees of misalignment 25 each way. the only way that arm could bend like that is the link end maxed out, at that point either the link end fails of the arm bends. frankly I'm surprised the link end held up.

3) Link ends with more misalignment like the ones baldilocks and I are running 65 degrees of misalignment would help, but I'm not sure if it would be enough for Nukegoat's set up

4) The way baldilocks and I have our link end mounted ( turned 90 degrees ) theres no way you could bend the arm that way, the link end has a unlimited amount of misalignment in that direction.

5) I have a few trips on this set up including the Rubicon, Swap Lake and a week in Sand Hollow with no issue

I just find it disappointing that the way Currie expects the sway bar arm to be used results in it bending

Currie also sells a double shear bracket that might help, but at $150, it's probably easier and more effective to just turn the link like Broski and the other guys have done. I may copy that for my front Antirock if I ever get it done.

 

[baldilocks]

For what's its worth, i wheel with tons of jeeps, mostly rock crawlers. and none of them like to run the antirock swaybars anyways. With that said, possibly having very different results on the 80 series chassis.
View attachment 2884272

What do they run for sway bars?

 

[Broski]

Although the RuffStuff requires fab skills, where the Currie is bolt-on

There nothing bolt on when mounting The Currie Antirock on a 80 !!

cut/drilled/bent cold-rolled steel pieces - welded up. The RuffStuff hollow arm could be easily nearly as slim, just as strong, and much lighter than the Currie solid arm.

So this hollow arm can be nearly 3/8 " wide and just as strong ? I don't think so
If the arm is any wider the the currie's 3/8" wide arm the you will be remounting the frame side panhard mount Like Jcardona1 did post 674 first picture.

There are a lot of sway bar options out there and just as many ways to mount them. What works for one Guy may not work for the next guy

As far as adjustability/tuning if you on a short course going around the same two corners over and over then the fine tuning can be beneficial, If you running the Rubicon where you actually make right & left turns go up and down hills and over big rocks a happy medium well suffice.

I'm not trying to argue, a few of us mounted up currie bars and we are sharing what we did, it's not for everyone!!!

If you have a better idea build it, mount it and show us !!

 

[spyduh]

A few months ago I bought the Currie kit for the front but it's still sitting in the box. Haven't had time to figure out how to make it work.

I'm interested when you figure it out cause that was my next thing I was thinking of doing to improve handling.

For what's its worth, i wheel with tons of jeeps, mostly rock crawlers. and none of them like to run the antirock swaybars anyways. With that said, possibly having very different results on the 80 series chassis.
View attachment 2884272

there's something wrong with that picture. Should be all land cruisers and maybe 1 jeep in that.

Currie also sells a double shear bracket that might help, but at $150, it's probably easier and more effective to just turn the link like Broski and the other guys have done. I may copy that for my front Antirock if I ever get it done.

at $150 I'm going to pass. But I do like that those heims can be replaced. As cool as the way Broski/Baldilocks did their arms. I did not like how it was welded on and not easily replaceable. The currie setup can be easily fabricated now that I have a picture to go off of. Looks like my next mod. Good time for me to shorten the weld on axle tabs as I think they are too long for my setup.

And to add to Broski's reply. There was nothing bolt-on about the Currie kit onto an 80. Requires frame modifications, plasma, and welding work to make it all fit. At least the way I installed it going through the frame and not under copying how Broski did his.