What about using a smaller pin, and a sleeve to adapt the smaller pin to the M10 size?
Quick disconnect front sway bar bracket (1 Viewer)
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What about using a smaller pin, and a sleeve to adapt the smaller pin to the M10 size?
- Thread starter
- #62
The sleeve is part of the bushing, and who am I to replace a OEM Toyota metal sleeve 
The metal sleeve OD has to be the same as the OME, because if fits inside the rubber bushing.
With a thicker wall and same OD, a 3/8 pin is widely available, but the U on the axle is M10 hole. The 3/8 will be moving around there oveling the hole. Not a long term solution.
I am trying to create a pin that will be good for DD and trails. It just more cool......
The metal sleeve OD has to be the same as the OME, because if fits inside the rubber bushing.
With a thicker wall and same OD, a 3/8 pin is widely available, but the U on the axle is M10 hole. The 3/8 will be moving around there oveling the hole. Not a long term solution.
I am trying to create a pin that will be good for DD and trails. It just more cool......
The sleeve is part of the bushing, and who am I to replace a OEM Toyota metal sleeve
I was more thinking of a pin inside a sleeve inside a sleeve.
There seems to be a few places out there that offer metric pins.
Metric Pins
Section 2
Maybe I missed something, but where does this pin come in? With your bracket installed (nicely done by the way!), all someone has to do is unbolt the swaybar from one location and bolt it in place in the other. Presto-changeo, nice and easy, no?
- Thread starter
- #65
Thanks 96r50,
That would be too complicated on the trail.
I want it to be safety pin easy and quick.
At home you can deal with the nut.
Trust me, I was under the truck for a week, I tried to do it in the dark, in the light, in the rain, in 28* weather. I was under there from 2am to 4am because I couldn't sleep thinking one issue after another using LED flash light.
The neighbors are about to vote me out of the neighborhood.
Using tool on the trail to deal with the bolt and nut is not the preferred way.
But yes, if you use the bolt and the nut in the disconnect position that would be the prefer way to cheat.
That would be too complicated on the trail.
I want it to be safety pin easy and quick.
At home you can deal with the nut.
Trust me, I was under the truck for a week, I tried to do it in the dark, in the light, in the rain, in 28* weather. I was under there from 2am to 4am because I couldn't sleep thinking one issue after another using LED flash light.
The neighbors are about to vote me out of the neighborhood.
Using tool on the trail to deal with the bolt and nut is not the preferred way.
But yes, if you use the bolt and the nut in the disconnect position that would be the prefer way to cheat.
So when do you switch from bolt to pin? I'd want to run one solution all the time and not have to switch back and forth. I don't think I'm understanding your thought process of this one. (it wouldn't be the first time that happened either ). Could you explain how you see the bolt vs pin setup working?
). Could you explain how you see the bolt vs pin setup working?
- Thread starter
- #67
Adam,
The bolt and the pin is one of the same. Functionaly when the nut is on, it is a bolt, when the nut is off, it is a pin.
It would have been nice to switch over to pins and forget about it. Alas, this solution is all about being proper.
The swaybar axle connection are designed for the M10 bolt to compress the U the swaybar is sitting in onto the metal sleeve. So it is designed to be tight. You can't make it tight with a safety pin.
Hence, for a DD, at home, at your convenient, you need to use tools (wrench) to tighten the nut for proper swaybar connection. Or to remove the nut and insert a pin for trail. You can live with the pin to get to the tail.
For the trail you want a quick connect, and you don't want to use wrenches.
Now if people will chose to not bother with the nut, that is their choice, but design goal of my Ultimate bracket is to be complete and completely proper as possible.
The only thing I may not supply, and it still undecided, is a tarp to lie on when disconnecting.
I hope I am able to explain it clearly enough
The bolt and the pin is one of the same. Functionaly when the nut is on, it is a bolt, when the nut is off, it is a pin.
It would have been nice to switch over to pins and forget about it. Alas, this solution is all about being proper.
The swaybar axle connection are designed for the M10 bolt to compress the U the swaybar is sitting in onto the metal sleeve. So it is designed to be tight. You can't make it tight with a safety pin.
Hence, for a DD, at home, at your convenient, you need to use tools (wrench) to tighten the nut for proper swaybar connection. Or to remove the nut and insert a pin for trail. You can live with the pin to get to the tail.
For the trail you want a quick connect, and you don't want to use wrenches.
Now if people will chose to not bother with the nut, that is their choice, but design goal of my Ultimate bracket is to be complete and completely proper as possible.
The only thing I may not supply, and it still undecided, is a tarp to lie on when disconnecting.
I hope I am able to explain it clearly enough
Ah, I get it now! Thanks for the explanation.
As I see it, with either connection method (bolt or pin), you still have to go under your rig to undo something, so why not use the method that is going to provide the most secure attachment in both positions (the bolt)?
IMHO, the difficult part of this mod (for those of us without access to a welder) is creating the bracket to secure the sway bar to when it is disconnected. Since you already have that under control, why not sell it by itself and let folks decide the bolt vs pin thing on their own?
Whatever you choose, congrats to you for actually producing a bolt-on solution!
As I see it, with either connection method (bolt or pin), you still have to go under your rig to undo something, so why not use the method that is going to provide the most secure attachment in both positions (the bolt)?
IMHO, the difficult part of this mod (for those of us without access to a welder) is creating the bracket to secure the sway bar to when it is disconnected. Since you already have that under control, why not sell it by itself and let folks decide the bolt vs pin thing on their own?
Whatever you choose, congrats to you for actually producing a bolt-on solution!
- Thread starter
- #69
Adam,
You pose the 64K question. I don't have a good logical answer.
I guess because I enjoy providing a complete solution as I see it.
Yes either way I have to go under the rig. But say you finish wheeling at dark. Wouldn't you prefer to just get under the truck for one second, no going to the tool box at all, and just unhooking and rehooking the sway bar?
And day or two later when the time is right and say the rain stopped then go under with a wrench?
And wouldn't it be nice if the wrench is 14 or 17 and not 13, 16 or 18?
Does it really functionally matter if the M8 is 12 or 13? I would say no. But every time I have to pull a 13mm from my set I get irritated.
My test M10 bolt is not tapered yet, every time I push it into the U (either disconnected or connected) and it catches the sleeve it takes unnecessary 10 seconds longer to accomplish the task and that irritate me as well.
God help me!
You pose the 64K question. I don't have a good logical answer.
I guess because I enjoy providing a complete solution as I see it.
Yes either way I have to go under the rig. But say you finish wheeling at dark. Wouldn't you prefer to just get under the truck for one second, no going to the tool box at all, and just unhooking and rehooking the sway bar?
And day or two later when the time is right and say the rain stopped then go under with a wrench?
And wouldn't it be nice if the wrench is 14 or 17 and not 13, 16 or 18?
Does it really functionally matter if the M8 is 12 or 13? I would say no. But every time I have to pull a 13mm from my set I get irritated.
My test M10 bolt is not tapered yet, every time I push it into the U (either disconnected or connected) and it catches the sleeve it takes unnecessary 10 seconds longer to accomplish the task and that irritate me as well.
God help me!
what you do Rami is to go with a 7/16" bolt and throw the sleeve away. The OD of the sleeve is almost identical to the shoulder of a 7/16" bolt.
All you really want is a smooth surface contacting the inside of the rubber bushing to avoid wearing it out.
All you really want is a smooth surface contacting the inside of the rubber bushing to avoid wearing it out.
Sorry Rami...Asleep at the wheel apparently
'97 LX450 - Currenty OME 2.5 heavy lift with 285s - future plans OME J-lift or Slee 4" with 315s
I tried to read through the threads and maybe I missed it...But can you develop the bracket for a standard 2.5" lift and then add spacers for taller lifts vs. a unique bracket for each lift size? I'm thinking along the lines of something that can grow with the truck and starts out sized for a 2.5" list and then just requires a 1/2" or 1" or 2" spacer to be inserted as the truck grows up
Saves me from having to figure out if I buy for what I have lift wise or for what I want lift size...
'97 LX450 - Currenty OME 2.5 heavy lift with 285s - future plans OME J-lift or Slee 4" with 315s
I tried to read through the threads and maybe I missed it...But can you develop the bracket for a standard 2.5" lift and then add spacers for taller lifts vs. a unique bracket for each lift size? I'm thinking along the lines of something that can grow with the truck and starts out sized for a 2.5" list and then just requires a 1/2" or 1" or 2" spacer to be inserted as the truck grows up
Saves me from having to figure out if I buy for what I have lift wise or for what I want lift size...
Adam,
You pose the 64K question. I don't have a good logical answer.
I guess because I enjoy providing a complete solution as I see it.
Yes either way I have to go under the rig. But say you finish wheeling at dark. Wouldn't you prefer to just get under the truck for one second, no going to the tool box at all, and just unhooking and rehooking the sway bar?
And day or two later when the time is right and say the rain stopped then go under with a wrench?
And wouldn't it be nice if the wrench is 14 or 17 and not 13, 16 or 18?
Does it really functionally matter if the M8 is 12 or 13? I would say no. But every time I have to pull a 13mm from my set I get irritated.
My test M10 bolt is not tapered yet, every time I push it into the U (either disconnected or connected) and it catches the sleeve it takes unnecessary 10 seconds longer to accomplish the task and that irritate me as well.
God help me!
Personally, I'd either go under once and do it "right" the first time, or not do it at all until later. I'd rather know that I either have a sway bar properly connected or not connected at all, but I'm a simple guy
I agree that the bolt/nut should use a common "Toyota-size" wrench.
This simplifies things even more. I like it.
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- #73
Landtank
7/16 will not fit the holes of the U.
I tried that.
7/16 will not fit the holes of the U.
I tried that.
- Thread starter
- #74
Adam,
You certianly do it your way with the nut at the end of the trail. If one day you want to just to it with the pin, you will be able to do it too.
See my response to Rick about the 7/16.
You certianly do it your way with the nut at the end of the trail. If one day you want to just to it with the pin, you will be able to do it too.
See my response to Rick about the 7/16.
- Thread starter
- #75
Sorry Rami...Asleep at the wheel apparently
'97 LX450 - Current OME 2.5 heavy lift with 285s - future plans OME J-lift or Slee 4" with 315s
I tried to read through the threads and maybe I missed it...But can you develop the bracket for a standard 2.5" lift and then add spacers for taller lifts vs. a unique bracket for each lift size? I'm thinking along the lines of something that can grow with the truck and starts out sized for a 2.5" list and then just requires a 1/2" or 1" or 2" spacer to be inserted as the truck grows up
Saves me from having to figure out if I buy for what I have lift wise or for what I want lift size...
The 2.5 heavy can take the 2" bracket and later it will be also perfect for the 4" lift with the 315.
You can also buy the OEM hight bracket and add shims l later, but that would be less elegant and I think unnecessary.
If you have the 2.5 heavy, chances are that you will be 2" clearance and with the heavy you may not be able to get 3" compression.
I will know more after this weekend. Stay tune.
I know, they make these things called drill bits that go in a go-roundy thing to make the holes bigger.
- Thread starter
- #77
Yes Landtank, and some people know how to replace the rear heater pipes by taking the transmission off the truck (and then they swear they will never do that again, but I digress).
For everyone else, there is the M10 bolt.
Besides, Toyota LC does not have 7/16 bolts.
For everyone else, there is the M10 bolt.
Besides, Toyota LC does not have 7/16 bolts.
- Thread starter
- #78
Testing in Rausch Creek this past Saturday.
So I had a good day at RC and I have some more data to share.
First, disconnecting the swaybar is definitely beneficial and worthwhile the trouble. Others have pointed out the technical merits for this so I will not repeat at full.
All I can say is the obvious, the axle move up and down more easily.
Most of the testing and measurements where about the bump stop drop and deciding where the base bracket should be. So on my LX, with a 9" axle to frame, I concluded that a 2" drop is too short.
At 4" drop will be perfect for wheeling. The full droop, the front 315 tire is about 1/4" from the spring while the bump stop is still 2" away from the axle. Ideally I would want the bump stop to touch at full articulation. So a 2" gap is going to be great for 4" lift and 315 tires while wheeling.
The main concern with a two inch space is that 2" gap might not be enough when the front goes up and down while straight. It can go down more that way. I have 5" of safely traveling down, but do I need that?
I don't have an answer right now.
For the rear, we can tell that a 3" drop is better than 2" drop. I am going to have an ultimate bracket for the rear that space it 3" for those on 4" lift. The 35 can not clear more that.
The 2" brackets are already available in the form of a block. But a 3", the bolts will be too long. So I am going to produce, if there is demand, few 3" for those of us with 4". I can space it more for the 6" if people want that.
[Pins]
After this weekend I decided, again, to let go of the pin design. I will not be able to come up with a reasonable cost for a custom pin, and I no longer think I can do better that the following setup:
1. Everyday use - Toyota swaybar bolt and nut
The problem is that I can not get a JIT bolt with partial threat. I got the 50mm JIT bolt and it is fully threaded. The threads make it difficult to push the pin into position, or to pull it out. It does not pay to may the bolt partially smooth, drill a hole etc.
2. For the trail, a simple 2" 3/8 pin with safety pin and two washers is safe enough to drive to the tail and disconnect and come home.
So this simplify my life a lot and I have extra 10 JIT M10 bolts as spares for something or another.
Prices will be finalized this week.
The bracket will have two prices - Ultimate price and a base price.
The base price will include only the bracket, 2 x M8 bolts, and two pins. It will not be painted and no bump stop.
The Ultimate Bracket with the Ultimate price will be painted, 4 M8 bolts, and Toyota bump stops.
It is coming along and this week I made great progress toward final bracket.
Stay tune and please as any questions about the drop distance........
So I had a good day at RC and I have some more data to share.
First, disconnecting the swaybar is definitely beneficial and worthwhile the trouble. Others have pointed out the technical merits for this so I will not repeat at full.
All I can say is the obvious, the axle move up and down more easily.
Most of the testing and measurements where about the bump stop drop and deciding where the base bracket should be. So on my LX, with a 9" axle to frame, I concluded that a 2" drop is too short.
At 4" drop will be perfect for wheeling. The full droop, the front 315 tire is about 1/4" from the spring while the bump stop is still 2" away from the axle. Ideally I would want the bump stop to touch at full articulation. So a 2" gap is going to be great for 4" lift and 315 tires while wheeling.
The main concern with a two inch space is that 2" gap might not be enough when the front goes up and down while straight. It can go down more that way. I have 5" of safely traveling down, but do I need that?
I don't have an answer right now.
For the rear, we can tell that a 3" drop is better than 2" drop. I am going to have an ultimate bracket for the rear that space it 3" for those on 4" lift. The 35 can not clear more that.
The 2" brackets are already available in the form of a block. But a 3", the bolts will be too long. So I am going to produce, if there is demand, few 3" for those of us with 4". I can space it more for the 6" if people want that.
[Pins]
After this weekend I decided, again, to let go of the pin design. I will not be able to come up with a reasonable cost for a custom pin, and I no longer think I can do better that the following setup:
1. Everyday use - Toyota swaybar bolt and nut
The problem is that I can not get a JIT bolt with partial threat. I got the 50mm JIT bolt and it is fully threaded. The threads make it difficult to push the pin into position, or to pull it out. It does not pay to may the bolt partially smooth, drill a hole etc.
2. For the trail, a simple 2" 3/8 pin with safety pin and two washers is safe enough to drive to the tail and disconnect and come home.
So this simplify my life a lot and I have extra 10 JIT M10 bolts as spares for something or another.
Prices will be finalized this week.
The bracket will have two prices - Ultimate price and a base price.
The base price will include only the bracket, 2 x M8 bolts, and two pins. It will not be painted and no bump stop.
The Ultimate Bracket with the Ultimate price will be painted, 4 M8 bolts, and Toyota bump stops.
It is coming along and this week I made great progress toward final bracket.
Stay tune and please as any questions about the drop distance........
Last edited:
I'm a bit confused by this.
There are two primary reasons for the bump stops. One is to prevent the shock from over compressing, and the other is to prevent the wheel from interfering with the wheel well or other bits in a potentially damaging manner (to the wheel or the wheel well/flares/etc).
While I don't quite have a 4 inch lift, I'm pretty close to it and also running 315's. From my measurements fitting in my shocks, the tires will only rub slightly at full stuff without the axle bump stops installed at all. The bump stop inside the spring (AKA follow spring) is more than enough to prevent serious damage to the tires or body when running 315's. You might get some minor rubbing, but nothing that a little touch up with some bedliner once a year wouldn't fix.
Larger tires than 315 would have a harder time fitting without rubbing hard, and that would be a good reason to drop down the bump stops obviously.
Now the shocks are a very different story. The OME's (both standard and L) have plenty of room for up travel. 315's mean you have about 16" of room for compression, even the L's are only a little over 15". So again, don't need to drop the bump stops.
Dropping the bump stops comes in handy when you fit longer shocks. If you don't move the shock mounts (or only want to move them a little) and want to fit a 12.5" or 14" shock (as these will typically have a compression of 16"-19") then you need to drop the bump stop down to prevent over compression.
So I guess I'm a bit confused as to why you've picked a 4" drop as the "perfect" drop. The required drop will be dependent on the setup. If you're running 35" tires and short body shocks (such as the OME's), then you don't really need any drop at all. If you're running 12.5" travel shocks you'll need a completely different drop than the 14" travel shocks, unless you want to waste almost 2" of up travel.
IMHO it'd be far better to provide your bracket with the easily bolted on bump stops, and provide several different spacers to drop the bump stops down the required amount. It is not difficult to flex the truck to the full compression, and measure the required bump stop drop. Then you know you are getting exactly what you need, and not wasting a bunch of travel.
- Thread starter
- #80
Ebag333,
All good points. If you are confused, it means I am not explaining it well. Let me try again.
At 2" drop I am protecting the OME L shocks and provide up to 5" up travel (4" gap + 1" bump compression) . This I already know. I also know I don't have to protect the OME 2.5" shocks as they have enough up travel.
My feelings are that it will be better at full flex for the axle to be resting on the bump stop not twisting all the suspension components. So a 4" drop will do that with very little flexing compromise and you may not rub. Yes shims can easily be used to trim the gap for the exact space on a specific truck.
So a drop of 3.5" will be better I guess to allow for shims.
The 2" will be perfect for the 2.5" so I have to have 2" for the 2" lifts anyway.
The issue I would like to answer is this: Will a 2" gap makes the truck hit the bump stops un necessary, and if it does, what gap to I need.
I drove pretty fast on potholes this weekend and did not hit the bump stops once and I have 4" gap. So this is too much gap. It does not being used straight, and I can not reach it flexing.
Wouldn't it be nice to find the exact gap needed for the bump stops?
All good points. If you are confused, it means I am not explaining it well. Let me try again.
At 2" drop I am protecting the OME L shocks and provide up to 5" up travel (4" gap + 1" bump compression) . This I already know. I also know I don't have to protect the OME 2.5" shocks as they have enough up travel.
My feelings are that it will be better at full flex for the axle to be resting on the bump stop not twisting all the suspension components. So a 4" drop will do that with very little flexing compromise and you may not rub. Yes shims can easily be used to trim the gap for the exact space on a specific truck.
So a drop of 3.5" will be better I guess to allow for shims.
The 2" will be perfect for the 2.5" so I have to have 2" for the 2" lifts anyway.
The issue I would like to answer is this: Will a 2" gap makes the truck hit the bump stops un necessary, and if it does, what gap to I need.
I drove pretty fast on potholes this weekend and did not hit the bump stops once and I have 4" gap. So this is too much gap. It does not being used straight, and I can not reach it flexing.
Wouldn't it be nice to find the exact gap needed for the bump stops?
