Questions about an SOA for a broke college student.

[klinetime574]

My personal opinion from experience: SOA looks awesome. SOA on stock springs, not awesome. Body roll out of control. Axle wrap off-road. The fab needed is a lot of time. Time = Money.

You want 33’s and are concerned about flooding. My 60 on 33’s and OME Medium has gone through water over the headlights. It handles great. New springs, bushings, shackles, shocks all for a reasonable price.

If you want axle clearance for flooding then go SOA and run 35”+ tires. Yes this entails new axle gearing and all the other stuff. $$$

IMHO there is no reason to spring over a 60 Series and run 33” tires. They will clear with a 2-3” lift. SOA nets 6”+.

I admire anyone who works on their vehicle and makes it their own. Just wanted to drop my $0.02.

 

[Fieldtester96]

Alright for anyone still following this im sorry i didn't post when i said i was but you will understand why in a minute.

So i did my SOA lift in 5 days, everything road well but for two reasons it was significantly higher than i expected and the drive shaft shook at around 30 MPH. other than that it was stout with no body roll and i had no worries going around curves fast. Since i knew replacing the drive shafts needed to happen or else i could risk serious failure i decided to cut my losses and put ever thing back how i had it before. Luckily i left all of the mounts intact for that exact reason. So after 2 ten hour days i had everything back save for the steering. Also i want to mention this was during my spring break so i had 7 days to do everything. So since i had to shorten the tie rod tube to fit it onto the high steer i was forced to keep the high steer. Which was a problem because it was a hair thicker than the OEM steering arms so when i had to re position the draglink arm it couldnt get quite down far enough on the stud, but it was still enough to get a cotter pin in. Unsurprisingly that was a mistake since there was very little material in that part of the stud due to the cotter pin holes and the damn thing sheered off. luckily i was just test driving it when it happened and i was able to stop before i hit anything but now the rig is down and i dont have time to fix it since school has gotten busy again.

I just want to say i understand now what you all were saying, and honestly i had to make this mistake on my own. Though it wasnt a total failure i know much more now about my rig than i did before. Also i have this awesome picture of how it looked with the SOA.

Also at this point im facing the fact that you cannot buy a fj60 series tie rod tube anymore so i either have to make my own with weld in inserts or keep the highsteer and go with fj80 components but for that ill need to do a shackle lift to have the proper clearance. If anyone reads this and has advice about that, im all ears, and feel free to make fun of me i do deserve it.

P.S. i want to just say the front ended up with a 5" lift where the back was somewhere around 7" which in my head didnt seem like alot but it turned my cruiser from mid sized to an over sized tank. But damn did i like how it looked.

 

[FJBen]

Lessons learned. I will say you are VERY lucky nothing happened when the steering sheared, that could have been extremely bad.

I will say most people giving advice on here, are giving it not because they want the nicest/fanciest setup or know it all, it's because most of us have been down that road and know whats needed to do it safe and correctly.

Driveshafts are operating on a different plane and therefore wearing on a different spot since the lift. They need rebuilt anyways most likely. 5-7" lift is a big lift. Most lift kits are around 2.5-3" which usually means you don't have change steering, brake lines and all other things.

 

[Fieldtester96]

Lessons learned. I will say you are VERY lucky nothing happened when the steering sheared, that could have been extremely bad.

I will say most people giving advice on here, are giving it not because they want the nicest/fanciest setup or know it all, it's because most of us have been down that road and know whats needed to do it safe and correctly.

Driveshafts are operating on a different plane and therefore wearing on a different spot since the lift. They need rebuilt anyways most likely. 5-7" lift is a big lift. Most lift kits are around 2.5-3" which usually means you don't have change steering, brake lines and all other things.

I fully understand that, but also i know some people give advice to stay on the safe side which is why most people say to use kits. Also now that i have everything in place a swap will take much less time, and when i do that i plan to swap out the drive shafts with new ones. Most likely i will do that when i graduate and have the money to get the whole drive train rebuilt. But for now i think ill do a 2" shackle lift if i cant get my hands on new tie rod tubes, that way i can keep my upgraded highsteer

 

[Fieldtester96]

Lessons learned. I will say you are VERY lucky nothing happened when the steering sheared, that could have been extremely bad.

I will say most people giving advice on here, are giving it not because they want the nicest/fanciest setup or know it all, it's because most of us have been down that road and know whats needed to do it safe and correctly.

Driveshafts are operating on a different plane and therefore wearing on a different spot since the lift. They need rebuilt anyways most likely. 5-7" lift is a big lift. Most lift kits are around 2.5-3" which usually means you don't have change steering, brake lines and all other things.

Also about me being lucky i didnt hit anything. i know i was driving it around the day before and had no problem and the fact that it broke a hundred feet from my parents house makes me truly believe in divine intervention. That is also why i really dont want to do weld in tie rod tubes for fear i will weaken the steel and it will break again.

 

[KWalkerM]

Right on owning up to it dude. I give you mad props for knocking it out in a week!

Can you post pictures of what you are talking about with TRE tubing? I am missing what you are talking about

 

[Fieldtester96]

Right on owning up to it dude. I give you mad props for knocking it out in a week!

Can you post pictures of what you are talking about with TRE tubing? I am missing what you are talking about

Ill see if i have pics when im off work, my car is currently rotting away at my parents. But im talking about the tube that connects both steering arms together. I had to shorten it to fit the new high steer i bought and it is now too short to fit the OEM arms. so either i have to find a new one or lift my rig to fit the high lift steering.

I had to flip the drag link upside down to make the high lift steer work without a lift which is part of why it sheared off in the first place. sorry for not saying that

 

[KWalkerM]

Ill see if i have pics when im off work, my car is currently rotting away at my parents. But im talking about the tube that connects both steering arms together. I had to shorten it to fit the new high steer i bought and it is now too short to fit the OEM arms. so either i have to find a new one or lift my rig to fit the high lift steering.

I had to flip the drag link upside down to make the high lift steer work without a lift which is part of why it sheared off in the first place. sorry for not saying that

Ok gotcha. Plenty of those go up for sale that are used. If you find one on the west coast (CA) I can drive it east to Virginia in a couple weeks. I work in Charlottesville and and am on a roadtrip back east. Let me know.

 

[Fieldtester96]

Ok gotcha. Plenty of those go up for sale that are used. If you find one on the west coast (CA) I can drive it east to Virginia in a couple weeks. I work in Charlottesville and and am on a roadtrip back east. Let me know.

Thanks man, ill keep that in mind. So far i have found none used i contacted some places an am waiting for a response. if you happen to find any let me know

 

[micruz60]

Well-done coursework at Cruiser university! :clapclap:
You don't know 'til you go.

Something to consider going forward is upgrading to the 80 series brake caliper /rotor setup?

 

[Fieldtester96]

Well-done coursework at Cruiser university! :clapclap:
You don't know 'til you go.

Something to consider going forward is upgrading to the 80 series brake caliper /rotor setup?

If i ever end up towing i definitely will, but honestly it breaks extremely well for a vehicle without anti lock brakes.

 

[klinetime574]

I’m sure you can pick up a used tie rod from someone. I’d be careful with a shackle lift. You’re putting the weight/force of the vehicle on two plates (per shackle) with rubber bushings between them. A slightly larger than stock shackle and some AAL’s would be better IMHO.

Or just put some 31’s on it. Wheel it. Save up for an OME kit. No reason to re-invent the wheel.

 

[Fieldtester96]

I’m sure you can pick up a used tie rod from someone. I’d be careful with a shackle lift. You’re putting the weight/force of the vehicle on two plates (per shackle) with rubber bushings between them. A slightly larger than stock shackle and some AAL’s would be better IMHO.

Or just put some 31’s on it. Wheel it. Save up for an OME kit. No reason to re-invent the wheel.

Well i was looking at about a 1-1/2 lift or 2" lift, but they are thicker than OEM shackles. Also they are the H design ones instead of the two plates. Im curious if anyone can speak to how that will change the suspension? also i did upgrade the bushings so i couldnt imagine it would be worse than what it was before. Also i have 33s on it now and they fit i just want the shackles so the high steer will fit.

 

[60 toy ota]

You can get that lift out of a shackle and not stretch the limits of safety/other components, but you'll notice a difference in ride quality as the shackle angle will be more vertical.

One thing to note, it seems you're keeping the door open for an SOA in the future. I didn't see any mention of a c&t (cut and turn) in your plans. In addition to having the proper length drive shafts, you need the pinion angles to be correct for the u joints if you want to avoid strange vibrations and premature wear. This involves cutting the axle tubing on both sides of the diff, clocking it to the corrected angle and re-welding. It's particularly important for the front axle with the shorter DS.

This is a good community that is forgiving of people who own up to their mistakes--we've all made em. I've found it much easier (and safer and cheaper) to learn by the good advice here rather than the hard way. that said, that's a whole lot of work for a spring break, wow. Part outs are happening everywhere, check out the classifieds and I'm sure you'll find a good used tie rod. glad you're safe and look forward to pics of the carnage.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Shackle lift is a bad idea because it reduces front caster and will make steering squirrley. Especially during emergency braking.

 

[Fieldtester96]

You can get that lift out of a shackle and not stretch the limits of safety/other components, but you'll notice a difference in ride quality as the shackle angle will be more vertical.

One thing to note, it seems you're keeping the door open for an SOA in the future. I didn't see any mention of a c&t (cut and turn) in your plans. In addition to having the proper length drive shafts, you need the pinion angles to be correct for the u joints if you want to avoid strange vibrations and premature wear. This involves cutting the axle tubing on both sides of the diff, clocking it to the corrected angle and re-welding. It's particularly important for the front axle with the shorter DS.

This is a good community that is forgiving of people who own up to their mistakes--we've all made em. I've found it much easier (and safer and cheaper) to learn by the good advice here rather than the hard way. that said, that's a whole lot of work for a spring break, wow. Part outs are happening everywhere, check out the classifieds and I'm sure you'll find a good used tie rod. glad you're safe and look forward to pics of the carnage.

The reason why i chose not to do a CNT is because the research i did on here said for a FJ62 it wasnt necessary because of the longer drive shaft over the fJ60s. I did notice some interesting behavior in 4 wheel drive at high speed so that might be something ill change when i do my SOA again.

 

[Fieldtester96]

Shackle lift is a bad idea because it reduces front caster and will make steering squirrley. Especially during emergency braking.

How exactly will it make it squirrley? are we talking about more play when you brake casing the front end to go down further? or is it something that can be fixed with stiffer shocks?

 

[Randy88FJ62]

From google:
Excessive Caster. Excessive caster will cause the steer wheels to aggressively follow the road camber, even to the point of pulling the vehicle down into the depressions caused by traffic on the road. This will cause the vehicle to wander across the road making the driver work hard to control the vehicle.

Curing Steering Wander

 

[klinetime574]

Caster impacts steering self centering and straight line driving stability. The way this changes is rotating the pinion upward AKA the longer shackle.

Other side effects as previously mentioned... the more vertical a shackle rests with the weight of the vehicle on it, the worse the ride. Heavy braking will cause the vehicle to dart left or right because the wheels won’t want to stay centered.

That’s why we highly recommend the OME kit. Longer springs (with more arch) pair with a longer shackle to preserve the caster angle. AAL (add-a-leafs) will beef up the stock worn out springs and paired with a stock shackle or similar would be like stock.

In some cases people have needed to run caster plates with OME suspensions. In my experience this has been on 60 Series without a double cardan drive shaft. I find that kind of odd because the DC shaft is shorter and operates at a higher angle in stock and lifted form, but that’s why it’s a double cardan... more joints, more better.

I’ve rambled enough... for now.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Caster is key. If you can’t keep 2 degrees in a lifted truck, it will handle like crap.

Regarding cut and turn, you need to do it with a spring over. It gives many advantages. First, you can set caster perfectly. Second, you can set pinion angle perfectly. And as an adjunct to #2, you get much better clearance under the pinion which protects it from rocks and saves your lower yoke. It is true that FJ62 has 1 degree more pinion angle, but that is not enough to obviate the need for a cut and turn.

Here is some friendly advice. Spend 6 months learning about steering geometry and driveshaft geometry and you will be far better prepared in the future

But in the end, I recommend a spring over only when you have another car to actually drive. Spring over Land Cruisers are not acceptable daily drivers. They are too big and too unsafe for everyday use. The risk is acceptable for weekend or trail use, but otherwise not.