PS questions I can't find answers to.. (1 Viewer)

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Q1: Can anyone explain the differences between the 2-row crank pulleys, I believe there was a wide/narrow-groove type, and a narrow/narrow type, just wondering WHICH I should seek to use for my PS conversion using a Toyota pump. My F currently has the single-pulley (lucky me).

Q2: Every pic I've seen of the front of an engine has one belt from the crank turning both alt and WP, and another from the crank driving PS pump and ALSO wrapped around the WP. Is there a reason for running the PS belt around the WP, rather than just running directly to the crank?
 
I am running the mini power steering on my 40 and only have the single pulley, just as described in your second question, no issues or problems, the only issue i could see, if you only use a single belt around the pump to the crank, maybe some binding ? just a quess.
or alignment issues.

Good luck ,,, :beer:
 
Howdy! On Q1, I would use which ever crank pulley that matches your pulley on the power steering pump.

On Q2, may be just a matter of geometry. Depending on how/where the PS pump it mounted, it may not be able to swing in the correct arc to tighten/loosen the belt. John
 
Regarding Q2, the belt that drives PS pump should go to crank ONLY, and no third pulley. Reason; because in off road terrain (particularly rocks) every time your tire goes up against a rock (even with tires pointing straight forward) the pump begins to bind the same way it does at a full lock turn, then the belt slips and squeeks the same as when in a full lock turn. This means the belt is squeeking constantly when wheeling. If the belt has a full 50 percent wrap of the PS pulley, it does not constantly squeek. The belt does not wrap the PS pully 50 percent if it has to go to a third pulley (triangle).
 
MNTCRZR:

How are you getting away with just using the single pulley? I assume your alt has a 2-groove pulley, so what is your belt arrangement: crank to WP to PS pump, with WP directly to alt, or crank to WP to alt, with WP directly to PS?
 
Brider,
I'm running the Scout/Saginaw in my Pig...with the narrow/wide 2-groove crank pulley. On mine, both belts go 'round the water pump pulley. my thinking was, if I lose a belt, I can drive without an alt, I can drive without power steering...I can't drive far without a water pump.
I took apart half a dozen LandCruiser blocks a few summers ago...early blocks had the single groove crank pulley, later blocks had 2 grooves.
Downey makes a good point though, a belt from the crank to the power steering pump only, probably provides better steering...I might give that a try.
 
(even with tires pointing straight forward) the pump begins to bind the same way it does at a full lock turn

Now that's some rationale I haven't heard yet, Downey. But regarding your 50% wrap criteria, you can get that by running the PS off the WP alone; I've heard prohibitions against it (too much load on the WP bearings), but MNTCRZR is getting away with it, I'd like to hear how he's doing it and if it's really feasable.

To summarize: I've got a single-pulley crank, 2-pulley WP. Need to provide power to a PS pump. I am investigation 2-pulley crank harmonic balancers, have questions about what I've SEEN (belts from the crank going around 3 accessories), and HEARD (MTNCRZR, you opened your mouth, now I want to hear how well/how long it works).
 
Pulley

The best way is to have two belts. One belt runs crank, water pump and p/s the other belt runs crank, water pump and alt. That way you can still drive if you loose one belt , alt (till bat dies) or p/s. You can't drive without the water pump. Bill
 
2f's had the double wide belt pulley(with A/C had a third groove on crank pulley only, narrow, closest to timing cover. smog F motors had 1 wide 1 narrow, and non smog f motors had 1 wide. thats a general sum up, but will get you most of the way to finding a correct pulley.
 
Brider,
Just go get a 2 groove crank pulley. Some might be wide/wide, I forget. But get a wide narrow if nothing else.
C'mon, we both know it takes 10 minutes to pull a Pigradiator, I already gave you the secret startermoter-loosening-the-crankpulleynut trick...you can have that pulley changed in an hour. Another super-secret 'Cruiserhead recipe for success?...(pre-heat oven to 400 degrees F. for 1 hour. place new pulley on a foil-lined cookie sheet. Baste liberally with used motor oil (mostly on the mating surface). bake for 15 to 20 minutes. Turn once, baste again. Turn oven to "broil" for 5 minutes. Disregard the smoke detectors alarm. Grab pulley firmly and remove from oven, (pliers or hotmitt strongly recommended here), run it out to the vehicle and slide it on over a well-oiled crankshaft.. Tap into far enough onto the crankshaft to get the nut started securely and torque it down. Not forgetting that lock-tab gizmo.
DON'T try to run the powersteering pump off just the waterpump...those bearings are fragile enough with a stock load....(that's just my very humble opinion).
I like the idea of of two belts around the water pump. I like the idea of that redundancy and I like that Mr. Dorry (who has a certain amount amount of street cred in my book) sees it the same way. Then again, I run Downey headers...Hmmm...quandry.
Sure, my power steering squeals sometimes. I thought everybody's did.
 
My 69 F has a wide/wide and my 73 F & 1\2 has narrow/wide I plan on running my pump off my crank on the F.

“Disclaimer”
But I have not got it done so do not now how it works / will work.

Chris
 
(even with tires pointing straight forward) the pump begins to bind the same way it does at a full lock turn

Now that's some rationale I haven't heard yet, Downey. But regarding your 50% wrap criteria, you can get that by running the PS off the WP alone; I've heard prohibitions against it (too much load on the WP bearings), but MNTCRZR is getting away with it, I'd like to hear how he's doing it and if it's really feasable.

To summarize: I've got a single-pulley crank, 2-pulley WP. Need to provide power to a PS pump. I am investigation 2-pulley crank harmonic balancers, have questions about what I've SEEN (belts from the crank going around 3 accessories), and HEARD (MTNCRZR, you opened your mouth, now I want to hear how well/how long it works).


I Have a two pulley set up on the crank and on the water pump, and single pulley on the alt and the power steering.. thats how mine is set up and it work great so far... no issues ..

Thats my story and im stickin to it ...
 
you'll definetly want to run a 2 groove pulley on the crank and water pump. the biggest reason to run the ps pump belt aound the wp is to have more belt contact on the wp. since the alt belt only contacts the wp for about 25% of the circumference. so having the second belt run around it more than doubles the contact area and voids any possible slippage problems which can lead to overheating.

downey has a point and a ton of experience, but in all the ps setups i've done or worked on i've always run both belts around the wp and i've not had squealing problems.

belt alignment is crutial. the pulleys are supposed to be slightly offset/mis-aligned to get the extra "side-bite" out of the belt itself. if you look at most oem non-serpentine belt setups, you'll see that the pulleys are not perfectly aligned.

last but not least, running the ps belt of the wp only is a bad idea. you'll have the added drag on the wp which will definetly cause wp to crank pulley belt slippage and therefore overheating. so i'd highly advise you not to run it that way.

post a pic of your current setup so we can see what's going on with your current wp pulley.

also, i believe mark A had the bolt on lower pulley in stock if manafree does'nt have them anymore. downey and sor might have it as well.

hth

georg @ valley hybrids
 
Yes, I'm going to post a pic or two this weekend, so you guys can tell me if I'm crazy.

Mark has one, but won't part with it unless it's part of a PS package; I already have all my parts, so I can't justify re-buying them to just get the pulley.

I'll try SOR and Downey, though,
 
Pighead has an old wide/narrow crank pulley if you can't find one elsewhere...
 

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