Power steering- do I have a problem? (1 Viewer)

[bucketman]

Okay guys, I couldn't find where this question has been asked before. Probably not a lot of guys that have ever tried this.

So I had my engine out to do a rebuild job and wanted to pull it out of the garage to wash the engine bay. I fabbed up a tow bar to pull it safely from the garage because I live on a hill and my driveway is slightly sloped. If the LC got away it would be BAD! I had my wife behind the wheel to steer a little because I had it in kind of crooked to make it easier to work on and it was close to the garage door opening. While I was slowly pulling it forward the tires started turning and I thought "what is she doing turning it that way?". So I got out of my PU and asked what she was doing. Evidently the wheels were turning on their own without the steering wheel turning. So we finished pulling the LC out of the garage with me directing my wife to turn the wheels whatever direction necessary because she couldn't tell if the tires were turning. I then backed it back in the garage the same way. If the tires were straight it would tend to pull straight, but once the tires were turned slightly past straight to either side they would rapidly turn that direction even when moving slowly.

My question is this: Is this normal? The power steering pump is attached to the engine and out of the loop when the engine is out of the vehicle so the system is no longer a closed loop, but I assumed that there is a mechanical connection between the steering shaft and gearbox that would not allow the tires to turn independently of the steering wheel. I had the open lines capped off originally, but as soon as the wheel was turned it blew the cap off the line so I had a bag duct taped to it to catch the fluid.

I could turn the wheels with the steering wheel, but the wheels would also turn while moving without turning the steering wheel. Sometimes the steering wheel would want to turn when the wheels were turning with the vehicle being pushed or pulled (once yanking the steering wheel out of my wife's hands) and sometimes the tires seemed to turn with almost no resistance and no pressure to the steering wheel.

Is there something wrong with my steering gear box?

 

[I Lean]

With the engine out, I'm sure the suspension was unloaded. Probably enough to make your caster angles go positive, which means the front wheels would no longer want to "follow" the direction of travel. Completely normal in that instance.

If you're flat-towing normally, the towed vehicle will follow along whether you're going straight or turning, whatever. Backing up doesn't work nearly as well, for the exact same reason yours wasn't behaving in this case. (only backward)

 

[bucketman]

Caster was definitely way off, but why would the tires move without the steering wheel moving?

1997 LX450

 

[bryson]

Caster was definitely way off, but why would the tires move without the steering wheel moving?

1997 LX450

They won't. Plain and simple.

Caster explains the funny handling, but if the tires are steering and the wheel is not moving, then things are broken.

 

[bucketman]

That's what I'm thinking, but no steering issues with the motor in before I pulled it or after reinstalling. It acts just like it should. Also no noise or strange sounds coming from the steering box. What could be broken to cause this?

 

[bryson]

That's what I'm thinking, but no steering issues with the motor in before I pulled it or after reinstalling. It acts just like it should. Also no noise or strange sounds coming from the steering box. What could be broken to cause this?

There'd have to be major components broken for your tires to steer and the steering wheel not to turn - sector shaft or gears inside the box, intermediate shaft/column internals, etc.

If it drives fine now I'd bet nothing is broken - which is good! The downside to this is that it means you're seeing things, and the turn/no turn scenario you described didn't really happen.

 

[bucketman]

Is there anyone out there that has been inside the gearbox that can confirm that in order for the wheels to turn without the steering wheel turning something must be broken? Could it be a seal? It acts as if it has full hydraulic steering. Everything is stock.

My thoughts go to what would happen if a power steering hose breaks and fluid is lost. I still want to be able to steer! I'm going to see if I can find a breakdown tonight to see if I can figure out what the issue is.

 

[I Lean]

If a power steering hose breaks, there IS a mechanical connection to the wheels. You will not lose your steering, just the power assist.

Your steering shaft turns the input of the box. That is connected to what is essentially a worm gear, which moves a piston forward and backward. That piston has teeth cut into the side of it, which mesh with teeth on the sector shaft. When the piston moves forward and back, that translates to rotation of the sector shaft, and steering.

The power-assist part is just a spring inside, that "measures" the force you're applying to the steering wheel, and opens valves accordingly. The harder you're twisting the input, the more it allows the ports to open and flow hydraulic pressure to one side or the other side of the piston mentioned above.

 

[bucketman]

After looking at the break down of the gearbox last night I can't see how it is possible for the wheels to turn without the steering wheel turning, but that is what was happening. I discussed it with my wife in detail and what was happening was the tires would turn quite a ways (maybe 15-20 degrees) without the steering wheel turning then it would get to a point and yank the steering wheel out of her hands- like it built up pressure. While the tires were turning initially there was very little resistance at the steering wheel. I also locked the steering wheel in place and removed the key at one point and that didn't change anything- the front wheels still turned while the steering wheel was stationary.

I know, it doesn't make sense!

Now that the motor is reinstalled and the power steering pump is hooked up and bled, everything seems normal. This weekend I may hook the tow bar up and pull it around a little to see if the same thing happens. I may also pick up a second gear box and rebuild it so I can pull mine out and inspect it.

 

[maxamillion2345]

Its not you just have to man handle the wheel and sometimes that involves pulling with all your strength and weight.