Power steering bushing 03+ (1 Viewer)

[ike84]

It seems that this topic has been discussed ad nauseum, but there are couple questions I have for the group.

For the OEM bushing - can anyone clarify that it is actually 3 parts? Inner metallic sleeve, rubber material, outter metallic cup? I thought I read that it's just metal cup and rubber bushing but then a pic I found looked like it also had a metal inner sleeve that makes contact with be bolt.

Why hasnt anyone made a 2 part urethane bushing that can be pressed into the cups, thus alleviating the need to remove them?

Similarly - has anyone ever tried removing the rubber but leaving the metal cup, and then just pouring urethane epoxy to create a new bushing?

With the dreaded VSC activation with poly bushings - Has anyone with poly bushings NOT had this happen? I would love to know if there is a Shore A hardness threshold that will not cause this. It seems that factory is probably A65 (this is a total guess), and most aftermarket poly bushings are 80+. Perhaps A65 or A70 would prevent the VSC activation?

Lastly, did anyone ever follow through with the Mitsubishi OEM replacements? It seems that was dropped without anyone really verifying them (they were only compared to eBay knockoffs, not the OEMs). @2001LC , iirc you were a part of that discussion, any updates there?

I know this is very "farm engineer" thinking. With how scarce the vgrs OEM teams have become though, and the aftermarket poly causing VSC nightmares, we may be forced to come up with a better solution for this issue.

 

[LJE]

FWIW, I've been using these on my 2005 LX rack & pinion - time will tell if they're any good, but so far nothing has exploded: Rack and Pinion Bushing Kit for Lexus LX470 2003-2007 LX570 2008-2016 | eBay - https://www.ebay.com/itm/325470640275

Not sure if that's what you meant by the 'ebay knockoffs' though.

 

[ike84]

FWIW, I've been using these on my 2005 LX rack & pinion - time will tell if they're any good, but so far nothing has exploded: Rack and Pinion Bushing Kit for Lexus LX470 2003-2007 LX570 2008-2016 | eBay - https://www.ebay.com/itm/325470640275

Not sure if that's what you meant by the 'ebay knockoffs' though.

thanks for that reply!

what has your experience been with them? how long have you had them installed?
there was a thread a while back that brought up a mitsubihshi bushing that had a bit longer metal cup and a bit thinner outer rubber pad than the bushing which he had installed. the issue though was that his comparison was an oe ebay one, not oem. i followed that link you sent me though and on their ebay page they linked an install video. insterestingly, in that video, he actually says that their bushings are shorter than the oem but that it is incosequential to function. so, i wonder if the mitsubishi part is the real oem part for our racks. i think ill order one and take some more detailed measurements and compare that to the mount on the rack itself.

here is a link to the thread. Steering rack / bushing opinions - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/steering-rack-bushing-opinions.1002949/page-3 . the mitsu part is first mentioned on page 2, then the comparison photos are on page 3.

 

[FxFormat]

I used this on my 2007 LC and i'm pleased with them, steering feels nice and tight now.

 

[2001LC]

The three bears:

1. Baby bear:Aftermarket rubber R&P mounting bushing. Most are a little to soft. On their own, will not likely set off ABS (VSC TRAC). But together with other issue of loose and or sloppy steering and or suspension will.
2. Mom bear: Poly bushing, are a little to hard. So hard, they'll not set off ABS. Look for other issue of loose or sloppy steering and or suspension.
3. Daddy bear: OEM are just right. Look for other issue of loose or sloppy steering and or suspension.

Few issues to look for, will set off ABS:

In LX. AHC set wrong. Not to common on their own
In LC or LX, loose wheel bearings. One of they most common.

Any play in wheel bearing can set off ABS. This is extreme play:


ABS activates when a wheel is turning at different speed, than others. It the wheel speed sensors job, to relay this info to ABS ECU. Loose wheel bearing result in wheel hub wobble
Backside of front wheel hub, is a tone ring that wheel speed sensor reads.

 

[ike84]

I used this on my 2007 LC and i'm pleased with them, steering feels nice and tight now.

No issues with VSCs, especially on sweeping turns?

BTW, my bucket list involves a motor swap involving your v12 TT. What a beast!!

 

[ike84]

The three bears:

1. Baby bear:Aftermarket rubber R&P mounting bushing. Most are a little to soft. On their own, will not likely set off ABS (VSC TRAC). But together with other issue of loose and or sloppy steering and or suspension will.
2. Mom bear: Poly bushing, are a little to hard. So hard, they'll not set off ABS. Look for other issue of loose or sloppy steering and or suspension.
3. Daddy bear: OEM are just right. Look for other issue of loose or sloppy steering and or suspension.

Few issues to look for, will set off ABS:

In LX. AHC set wrong. Not to common on their own
In LC or LX, loose wheel bearings. One of they most common.

Any play in wheel bearing can set off ABS. This is extreme play:


ABS activates when a wheel is turning at different speed, than others. It the wheel speed sensors job, to relay this info to ABS ECU. Loose wheel bearing result in wheel hub wobble
Backside of front wheel hub, is a tone ring that wheel speed sensor reads.View attachment 3817024

Yes sir, but for now and likely ever more, daddy bear is unobtainium. I had a lead on a single new OEM VGRS rack but that is now gone. Hence my interest in the Mitsu bearings, or custom making A65 poly bushings that will be Mama bear's new fling .

 

[FxFormat]

No issues with VSCs, especially on sweeping turns?

BTW, my bucket list involves a motor swap involving your v12 TT. What a beast!!

I haven't had any issues with it, the steering feel is very solid with no play. Relatively easy to install if you got an air hammer to take the old ones out.

 

[2001LC]

You can use the LC R&P. To save cash.

Rule of thumb. If rack leaking, replace it. If no leak, but bushing shot. R&R bushing. Poly bushing, tends to bring out weak TRE and ball joint. But last forever.

 

[2001LC]

Whatever you do. Never pound on intermediate shaft in direction of steering wheel. Which can damage VGRS actuator in the 03-07 LX.

 

[ike84]

You can use the LC R&P. To save cash.

Did the 03+ LC have vgrs though?

If you put a non vgrs rack in a vgrs truck, how does the system act? I read your posts about noticeably different steering at low speeds. I would imagine you'd have a dash full of lights forever.

 

[FxFormat]

Did the 03+ LC have vgrs though?

If you put a non vgrs rack in a vgrs truck, how does the system act? I read your posts about noticeably different steering at low speeds. I would imagine you'd have a dash full of lights forever.

None of the LC any years had VGRS, strictly an LX feature. I have a 2007 LC and Lx and the vgrs is awesome esp parking and doing U-turns. The vgrs helps out a lot when you have wider tires with aggressive offset wheels messing with your scrub radius

 

[MongooseGA]

You can put a Toyota rack in the LX, no problem.

I put urethane bushings in mine. They were great until the VSC issue in long sweeping turns. Really takes some of my confidence out of the truck in certain driving conditions. Obviously, I'm aware of the issue so I don't push it in those settings.

I was glad to notice my rack was leaking the other day because it means I get to put a new rack in with the good rubber bushings.

 

[LJE]

thanks for that reply!

what has your experience been with them? how long have you had them installed?
there was a thread a while back that brought up a mitsubihshi bushing that had a bit longer metal cup and a bit thinner outer rubber pad than the bushing which he had installed. the issue though was that his comparison was an oe ebay one, not oem. i followed that link you sent me though and on their ebay page they linked an install video. insterestingly, in that video, he actually says that their bushings are shorter than the oem but that it is incosequential to function. so, i wonder if the mitsubishi part is the real oem part for our racks. i think ill order one and take some more detailed measurements and compare that to the mount on the rack itself.

here is a link to the thread. Steering rack / bushing opinions - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/steering-rack-bushing-opinions.1002949/page-3 . the mitsu part is first mentioned on page 2, then the comparison photos are on page 3.

View attachment 3816932

Gotcha! I've only had mine in for a couple thousand miles so far, but zero issues with VSC triggering. I bought my LX with a blown engine, and rebuilt my rack (as in, pulled it all apart and replaced all interior hydraulic seals) and replaced bushings while I had my engine out - so I really can't tell you if there was a difference compared to OEM, haha. I suspect my rack will leak again before these bushings go bad though.

 

[2001LC]

Did the 03+ LC have vgrs though?

If you put a non vgrs rack in a vgrs truck, how does the system act? I read your posts about noticeably different steering at low speeds. I would imagine you'd have a dash full of lights forever.

No VGRS is a Lexus product, in many lexus models. We first see on 03-07 LX470, all LC are non VGRS. All 98-02 LC & LX same R&P. In North America
The R&P's are color coded.

03-07 LX VGRS Black

03-07 LC green

98-03 LC & LX Blue

I'm 90% sure, the difference between VGRS R&P and non (LC R&P) of 03-07. Is just a slight variation in gear ratio.

I need an old used VGRS Rack & Pinion, to disassemble and compare to LC. To be 100%. Any one have one?

The test to see if VGRS is working. While parked and engine idling. Turn steering wheel lock to lock (steering knuckle stop to stop) and count turns of steering wheel. ~2 1/3 turns, is working VGRS. That is to say turn full left, then count turns until full right when steering wheel stops. VGRS off or non VGRS system. We get ~3 turns. VGRS system active with LC R&P, IIRC, we get closer to 2 1/2 turns. I'll check that some day.

I dug into this some years age. It seems the gear ratio is slightly different, or so I think. Since Lexus does not sell the gears. I've never had a set to compare. The FSM doesn't give gear ratio, that I've found. IIRC I did see some reference, that made me think ratio different.

I've 3 LX with VGRS, with non VGRS R&P. They appear to be aftermarket R&P. I'll need to go out and compare lock to lock turns with my one OEM R&P 07LX.

Aftermarket R&P, is not what I would install, but they work. One feels a little loose, with a slight steering wheel wiggle. I suspect, preload on pinion gear is to light. Other than that, they're fine. They have little effect on VGRS if any, which the driver never notices. I see non VGRS R&P installed in VGRS systems often. Slee installs LC R&P in VGRS systems, for a saving to customer. They only install VGRS R&P, if requested ASFIK. Slee service mrg, thought perhaps rubber softer in mounting bushing. For the extra money Lexus charges. I don't think it's is or just, rubber difference. looking at bushing I can see a difference.

No matter if an LX or LC R&P. We still see reduce drives input on steering wheel, in slow speeds and increase in high speed. Which is the function, of the VGRS actuator. Which is inside the large boot on steering column (#1 intermediate shaft) near brake pedal.

In next two pictures, we see large boot and steering column snap ring that had come free in 03LX VGRS system. This is the reason for 03-07LX snap ring recall. This 03LX with VGRS, hadn't yet been in Lexus dealership shop, for the snap ring recall. Funny at 320K miles, it never had been recalled. Nor did it have any service history at Lexus or even any entries of service in carfax anywhere. It is, my most extensive restore to date. One day with time, I'll right it up in mud.

VGRS actuator is cover by large boot

Snap ring had come loose and slip down shaft. Dangerous!

VGRS Actuator (AKA #1 intermediate shaft). A $3k part at Lexus. Which is so rarely replaced. One very large and busy Lexus Dealership parts department, has not sold one in last 10 years (oldest records they have). Their service departs, sees ~100 lexus a day. VGRS is a Lexus product, and in more than just our LX470. They are very robust, built to last forever.

Here is boot cut, after snap ring recall service. Also notice change in components above the boot on shaft and at outside of firewall. It's the only one I've ever seen where Lexus tech cut the boot open.

The above recall was done so poorly. I got my hands the the recall TBS, with service procedure, to see how should have been done. I learned a lot, about VRGS and calibrating on this one and one other.

For one I found the kit has the fire wall seal included. This/these seal aren't being replace as required by the recall TSB. I checked all my 03-07LX, and found ever single seal was tron. This seal, prevents dust and air from engine compartment, form getting into actuator. The inner boot with its seal at top, also prevent air and dust entering cabin, and dust from footwell entering actuator.
In the above case where Lexus tech cut boot open and didn't replace fire wall seal. It create easy air passage (no back pressure due to boot cut) into cabin. This one 03LX, at the time. Had a bad cracked exhaust manifold on BK1 (DS). Exhaust fumes where filling the cabin. The VGRS dash light was on, when I picked it up. I assumed battery disconnected, and not yet driven up to 25MPH in straight line, than turns LH & RH. Which resets the VGRS. Nope it was not calibrated. So VGRS light would not go out, and steering wheel would not center. I had the hardest time calibrating it. It keep failing all attempts. Until I found ABS zero point calibrations was undone. Which zero point (ABS) must be set first and all flags cleared from VGRS. Then calibration done. This Lexus dealership sent me out in a vehicle unsafe to drive. But due to it, I learned a ton about VGRS. That and another 03LX was was helping someone else with.

Fire wall seal rip in seal. Sorry, bad lighting so hard to see rip.

New fire wall seal

I was helping out one 03LX owner with very strange steering issue. He had an LC R&P in his VGRS system. We though perhaps the issue had to do with the non VRGS R&P. IT DID NOT. His VGRS actuator failed. We track his "hard steering" (more than 2 1/3 turns lock to lock). Down to two incidents, where VGRS Actuator took hits. One was frontal impact accident. Lexus shop forman said; "The only VGRS actuator they ever replace, are due to accident". The second incident was, air hammer used to separate intermediate shaft #2 union, from pinion input shaft. Lexus snap ring recall TSB states: Never pound on intermediate shaft in direction of actuator (#1 intermediate shaft). His VGRS actuator was in fail safe for two years, no lights on dash indicating such. Fail safe means they lock into same gearing as would be on HWY (like LC gearing). His lock was failing and then relocking while driving. Supper rare, and due to damaged actuator from impact. He also had what was believe to be, an ABS glitches due to messing with wiring.


Rack Bushing:

I've had aftermarket rubber and poly rack mounting bushing bushing, in VGRS and non VGRS system.

The only issue I had with aftermarket rubber bushing, was in 00LX (non VGRS system) with remain aftermarket R&P. The VSC TRAC would go off hitting HWY ruts. As ruts worked to turn vehicle LH & RH in rapid succession. VSC TRAC ABS alarms would kick on/off. It wasn't just the softer rubber bushing, it was also the AHC was out of adjustment and weak globes. Also stabilizer system was in need of refresh. Which together made the front end a little squirrely. I adjusted the AHC pressure, installed poly rack mounting bushing and refreshed the stabilizer system. No more VSC TRAC ABS issues.

I take these on LX & LC on sweeping mountain HWY, pass and HWY with ruts for testing. I do so with OEM VGRS R&P, Non VGRS R&P in VGRS system, LC, etc. With new and remain R&P, aftermarket R&P. Various bushing. With about every configuration of R&P. With the rest vehicle in factory configuration. When all systems as the should be i.e. shock or AHC rams & pressure, stabilizer system, R&P bushing good, wheel bearings, TRE, ball joints and tires all to factory spec and refreshed. They hug the turns with zero body roll. The AHC system even better, as I dial in to sport mode. No VSC TRAC or ABS. A pressure to dive, no matter which R&P or bushings.

 

[Jack90210]

Yes sir, but for now and likely ever more, daddy bear is unobtainium. I had a lead on a single new OEM VGRS rack but that is now gone. Hence my interest in the Mitsu bearings, or custom making A65 poly bushings that will be Mama bear's new fling .

Are you looking for 44200-60120 (discontinued) or 44250-60120 (superceded PN)? The latter is still available and seems to be the spec rack for 03-07 LX VGRS systems, as best as I can tell (and as evidenced by @2001LC 's photo above).

 

[2001LC]

Keep in mind also. When we buy a new OEM R&P. We also get new inner TRE and OEM bushing plus seals. Add those and R&P seems reasonable priced, for all we get.

Just those darn VGRS R&P are Lexus only and pricy. Even though all boxes say: Toyota/ Lexus. We can only buy from VGRS from Lexus.

 

[MongooseGA]

Keep in mind also. When we buy a new OEM R&P. We also get new inner TRE and OEM bushing plus seals. Add those and R&P seems reasonable priced, for all we get.

Just those darn VGRS R&P are Lexus only and pricy. Even though all boxes say: Toyota/ Lexus. We can only buy from VGRS from Lexus.

In my opinion, I prefer the ratio of the cruiser rack to the LX rack. The cost savings is a nice fringe benefit.

 

[2001LC]

I prefer the ratio of the cruiser rack to the LX rack.

Based on cost"
Or
Do you have some info on gear ratio, you can share?

 

[ike84]

So what happens to the vgrs ECU when you install a non vgrs rack? Do these trucks live with warning lights on the dash forever?