PLEASE HELP - 1997 LX450 208k Miles - MAGNETIC METAL IN OIL

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for all of those of you interested - just got a response from blackstone:

Thanks for the notes. Bearings in this engine are primarily made of lead/copper; the magnetic metal you found in the oil pan is from steel parts like cylinders, shafts, and valvetrain components. Iron looks okay on a microscopic level (the 9-ppm reading isn't excessive), but visible metal indicates steel parts are wearing more than we can tell (and more than they should be). The other metals are fine, and we didn't detect any contamination. Keep a close eye on the visible metal, watch for any issues in operation, and check back on a shorter run to monitor.

What do you all think? Is this safe to assume it could be timing chain components?

Thanks
 
Entirely possible... at this point you're kinda stuck guessing at it still unfortunately. Still, finding out your bearings probably aren't toast is promising. I still think pulling the engine is your best bet: get it out and you can inspect it properly and make an informed choice from there, whether it's a timing chain failure and you want to attempt to flush all of that out and take the gamble, or whether it makes more sense to you to tear it down.
 
Marvelicious said:
Entirely possible... at this point you're kinda stuck guessing at it still unfortunately. Still, finding out your bearings probably aren't toast is promising. I still think pulling the engine is your best bet: get it out and you can inspect it properly and make an informed choice from there, whether it's a timing chain failure and you want to attempt to flush all of that out and take the gamble, or whether it makes more sense to you to tear it down.
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If only my engine stand didn't have an engine sitting on it. Guess I gotta get that project moving again.

It seems wildly stupid to replace the timing chain with the engine in place - anyone disagree?
 
Not really
I think its doable if you pull everything in front of the motor.
 
I know people have done it in place, but I'm pretty sure I remember someone saying if they had it to do over, they'd just pull the engine, but I don't really know. You've pretty much gotta pull all the stuff Broski is talking about either way I think: radiator, AC condenser, core support, etc. Tear it down, see how the timing chain access looks, decide if you need to go buy another engine stand off craigslist... ;)
 
Many years ago @cruiserdan had a thread about removing his 80's timing chain cover with the engine in the vehicle, but both oil pans had to come off also.

Seems like someone else said they got the timing chain cover off without removing the pans but IDK how. What I ran into (and where I stopped) is that there are two short studs at the front bottom of the timing chain cover that dive down through the upper oil pan. The timing chain cover won't come off with those two studs (and the upper pan) still in place, IME.
 
Kernal said:
Many years ago @cruiserdan had a thread about removing his 80's timing chain cover with the engine in the vehicle, but both oil pans had to come off also.

Seems like someone else said they got the timing chain cover off without removing the pans but IDK how. What I ran into (and where I stopped) is that there are two short studs at the front bottom of the timing chain cover that dive down through the upper oil pan. The timing chain cover won't come off with those two studs (and the upper pan) still in place, IME.
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cruiserdan

Thread 'Na$ty a$$ oil leak'

Well, headded up to Los Alamos for the last match of the year early this morning and I got about 30 miles up the freeway when I smelled burning oil :o . I pulled off at the closest exit to take a look and dang, there was oil everywhere. :o It was about a quart low and dripping profusly from the RH side of the engine. I put a quart in and pointed it home and off I limped. It took 2 quarts to get it home and I have a BIG MESS on my hands.
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Little update for you all - pulled the oil pan just now.

Not sure what the red is. Was thinking rtv but haven’t seen that anywhere on the engine. The long fragments are curious too. Maybe a gasket? Definitely some grit in a pile there and a red hue to it all which is interesting bc the blackstone said there wasn’t high iron.

Also - mistakenly had filled the truck up back after draining it with my initial findings, so may have missed some other fragments

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Anything magnetic?
Are the black pieces fipg or plastic?
The red pieces looks like someone may have used orange fipg to reseal the pan at some point in the past??
 
No Bueno !!
 
Kernal said:
Anything magnetic?
Are the black pieces fipg or plastic?
The red pieces looks like someone may have used orange fipg to reseal the pan at some point in the past??
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Well I had a ton of shavings that are magnetic on the early oil change (see OP). Truth be told I didn’t even run the magnet on this. I will tomorrow on what’s left.

Here was an interesting bit I did find

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Some more updates. Took the valve cover off yesterday. From the looks of it the timing components all look to be in working order. Stuck a boroscope in each cylinder and did not see much evidence of an issue there.

There is buildup is all over the engine. Not sure if it is a lot or a little for 200k miles on the clock. Does it make sense to try and clean this with the valve cover off? Probably important to make sure nothing makes it down into the engine, where are spots to stick a rag in, if so? How about the timing components? I was thinking of running some tranny oil once I get everything bolted back up to do a couple rounds of de-greasing.

Going to check lash gap of course. Will also do compression and leak down some point soon as well. So far my senses are saying its a bearing that has been eaten. I am not seeing a ton of glitter spread around the engine, but i need to do a deeper look.

TYIA

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The deposits suggest more than less than optimal maintenance but not complete negligence.

Orange suggests oil getting baked on. IE too hot for too long.
 
^^^Agree above^^^

IME sludge can accumulate and get trapped inside the oil baffle box located at the top (inside) of the valve cover, looking at the oil pan you can assume the baffle isn't very clean either. So FWIW before you reinstall the valve cover it might help to aggressively wash it out ie: degreaser-type cleaning solution (hot water helps you can do that) agitate/shake, followed by high pressure water into every opening, repeat, repeat, repeat. You can then go to solvents, seal the top openings, pour in the solvent (kerosene, diesel, etc) agitate, empty, repeat. Final rinse with Acetone (some "environmentally safe" brake cleaners are Acetone). Using just one can of brake cleaner sprayed inside the baffle box will not clean it out if it's sludged up IME.

@mcbs : was your PCV valve/system functioning, was the valve plugged up with sludge?
 
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Kernal said:
It's known that sludge can accumulate and get trapped inside the oil baffle at the inside top of the valve cover, so IMHO before you reinstall the valve cover it might help to aggressively wash it out ie: degreaser-type cleaning solution (hot water helps you can do that) agitate/shake, followed by high pressure water into every opening, repeat, repeat, repeat. You can then go to solvents, seal the top openings, pour in the solvent (kerosene, diesel, etc) agitate, empty, repeat. Final rinse with Acetone (some "environmentally safe" brake cleaners are Acetone). Using just one can of brake cleaner sprayed inside the baffle box will not clean it out if it's sludged up IME.

Was your PCV valve/system functioning, was the valve plugged up with sludge?
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I would tell you about the condition of the PCV valve if i could find the dang thing! I think I dropped it puling the throttle body off. I will tell you the throttle body had oil spray in it.

Are you saying to wash out the cam shafts and top of the valves or just the valve cover?

robnicko said:
That red piece looks a little like the material used in the oil filter anti drain back valve, is it hard or flexible?
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It was hard - unfamiliar with the anti drain back. Can you explain more?
 
mcbs said:
I would tell you about the condition of the PCV valve if i could find the dang thing! I think I dropped it puling the throttle body off. I will tell you the throttle body had oil spray in it.

Are you saying to wash out the cam shafts and top of the valves or just the valve cover?



It was hard - unfamiliar with the anti drain back. Can you explain more?
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Just the valve cover. Do not introduce any water into your engine… at all.
 
Old Nick said:
Just the valve cover. Do not introduce any water into your engine… at all.
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Valve cover looks super clean! Someone has been here recently- the spark plug seals stayed on the stems when i pulled the cover... P.O had said he had valve cover gasket replaced around 150k miles
 
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