PLEASE HELP - 1997 LX450 208k Miles - MAGNETIC METAL IN OIL

[Kernal]

Without any noises, engine running well, what's the possiblity the debris is related to the timing chain, sprockets, slippers???

 

[mcbs]

Without any noises, engine running well, what's the possiblity the debris is related to the timing chain, sprockets, slippers???

to be honest i have no idea and it's worth looking into. I have been having a few ugly sounding starts 1 in every ~ 200. My first thought was timing related. But as soon as I posted photos everyone has been on me that its bearings.

 

[mcbs]

Just buy a new short block from toyota. Dont waste your $ at a machine shop when you can buy directly from toyota.

Right on. Would you keep the heads or just not worth it considering the effort and 'while your there'

Edit - holy smokes, we are talking 7k for the block and heads. gonna be look around a long while before i make that purchase.

 

[smorkington]

Right on. Would you keep the heads or just not worth it considering the effort and 'while your there'

Edit - holy smokes, we are talking 7k for the block and heads. gonna be look around a long while before i make that purchase.

Your head will be fine with mild machining. If youre on a budget keep your eyes peeled for used 1fzs people toss them for v8s all day.

 

[Fj80oregon]

well for the past 15k miles or so i was running 5w-30 royal purple. Always an OEM toyota filter. I will cut it and post it tomorrow.

I am interested in pulling the pan to see. Unless it is something catastrophic (which I don't think it to be, again - this was just a routine oil change) why would I need a new block or heads?

I am guessing it is bearings based on what I am reading, though there is a though it is rings. Is it more cost effective to just swap the block than just rebore cylinders and up size? (controlling for shop labor and if pistons are reusable that is).

Bearings are magnetic material, here is a picture of a spun rod bearing from a truck that ran with low oil pressure. Had a terrible rod knock and destroyed the crank. It is cheeper to rebuild an engine than buy new but takes longer and there is margin for error.

 

[jonheld]

Even with 2 quarts low the engine should still have good pressure and be ok if driving in normal conditions. If you happen to be that low and drive a hour long pass then that’s a different story and would explain why you have a pan full of metal shavings.

I'm going to have to disagree with that statement.
The oil sump holds 8 quarts and is well baffled. You could be 4 quarts low and this motor won't care as long as long as the pump is pumping oil and not cavitating. Driving on flat ground or running over a mountain pass will make no difference as long as there's oil pressure. Being 2 quarts low is a non-issue.

100 years ago when I was relying on the dealership for oil changes, they put in 4 quarts because the prepubescent "technician" thought it was a Camry. I didn't notice until the next oil change which was about 3K miles later. That motor (3FE) now has well over 300K miles on it and has never been rebuilt.

 

[mcbs]

I'm going to have to disagree with that statement.
The oil sump holds 8 quarts and is well baffled. You could be 4 quarts low and this motor won't care as long as long as the pump is pumping oil and not cavitating. Driving on flat ground or running over a mountain pass will make no difference as long as there's oil pressure. Being 2 quarts low is a non-issue.

100 years ago when I was relying on the dealership for oil changes, they put in 4 quarts because the prepubescent "technician" thought it was a Camry. I didn't notice until the next oil change which was about 3K miles later. That motor (3FE) now has well over 300K miles on it and has never been rebuilt.

Did you get ground shavings in a pile as a gift too???

 

[mcbs]

Bearings are magnetic material, here is a picture of a spun rod bearing from a truck that ran with low oil pressure. Had a terrible rod knock and destroyed the crank. It is cheeper to rebuild an engine than buy new but takes longer and there is margin for error.

View attachment 4076044

View attachment 4076045

Sure looks like my pile of shavings. Sounds like it would be worth having a chat.

If this is just a bearing, and I caught it early, how likely is it that the crank is reusable and cylinder walls are un impacted. I’ve watched a few 1fz tear downs and surprised how durable parts have proven to be.

Your head will be fine with mild machining. If youre on a budget keep your eyes peeled for used 1fzs people toss them for v8s all day.

Right on. What machining needs to happen on the heads, just the surfaces? Obviously I know you only can say so much without diagnosis or visuals.

 

[jonheld]

Did you get ground shavings in a pile as a gift too???

No. Like I said, these motors don't care as long as there's oil pressure. 2 quarts low is a non-issue. You obviously have something else going on internally.

 

[bhsdriller]

FWIW Short block (11400-66041), Head (11101-69107) if you have to go that route.

Too bad they won't ship but Toyota has 25% off right now at their east/southeast locations.
3200 for the short block if anyone's looking

 

[mcbs]

Here is a video of me going through the filter.



Haven’t cut into one before so wasn’t sure what to look for but I didn’t see any metal, shavings, or flecks.

Thanks for taking the time

 

[Broski]

Here is a video of me going through the filter.



Haven’t cut into one before so wasn’t sure what to look for but I didn’t see any metal, shavings, or flecks.

Thanks for taking the time

You were going way too fast to see what was in there. I did see some flashes of something.
It also look very dry.

 

[mcbs]

You were going way too fast to see what was in there. I did see some flashes of something.
It also look very dry.

Well I didn’t want to make people look at 5 minutes of filter flipping. I drained it yesterday and cut it open and drained it before this video

 

[CJF]

The oil pressure has never been an issue, once the engine gets up to temp of course.

This part is bothering me.

Oil pressure should come up *fast*, as in a second or two. Where was your gauge at as the engine was warming?

 

[Broski]

Well I didn’t want to make people look at 5 minutes of filter flipping. I drained it yesterday and cut it open and drained it before this video

Ya but, a minute so we can see would be fine. Check out some of Dave's Auto on YouTube he cuts open filters all the time

 

[mcbs]

This part is bothering me.

Oil pressure should come up *fast*, as in a second or two. Where was your gauge at as the engine was warming?

Fast in freezing temps?

 

[Old Nick]

Fast in freezing temps?

Yes, even in freezing temps. @CJF is right on the money re: oil pressure on start-up.

It's been in the single digits here. When I fire up our 80, the oil pressure (as per the gauge on the dash) goes straight up to the three quarter mark and then slowly settles as the engine temp rises.

 

[mcbs]

Yes, even in freezing temps. @CJF is right on the money re: oil pressure on start-up.

It's been in the single digits here. When I fire up our 80, the oil pressure (as per the gauge on the dash) goes straight up to the three quarter mark and then slowly settles as the engine temp rises.

Sorry guys - I am swapping too much pressure and temp. Pressure would read fine upon start up. It was temp that would graduallly increase. I never saw low pressure, it would do as you described. I had the gauges swapped in my head and had to visually see it to remind myself

 

[Old Nick]

Fast in freezing temps?

Has the harmonic balancer been off your rig/replaced lately? If so, was the crank nut torqued to the full 308 ft. lbs.? If that nut isn't torqued to full spec, the oil pump, which is mechanical won't operate as it should, and that would deprive your engine of oil and "could" lead to the oil light coming on.

 

[Old Nick]

Sorry guys - I am swapping too much pressure and temp. Pressure would read fine upon start up. It was temp that would graduallly increase. I never saw low pressure, it would do as you described. I had the gauges swapped in my head and had to visually see it to remind myself

Just after start, while still in high-idle, does your oil pressure gauge go up to 3/4 +/-?