pinion seal repair question

[80JDM]

I was looking to replace the rear axle pinion seal this weekend and discovered that for some reason, Toyota decided to require a special puller (09556-22010) to remove the 'outer' pinion bearing. In order to complete this task correctly, the crush sleeve must be replaced and the bearing preload must be re-established, and the new seal installed, etc. I have searched high and low for commentary about this on the forums and have come up empty handed. Its hard for me to believe that everyone would simply ignore what I consider to be a critical step in the procedure that will ensure long bearing life. So I have two questions for this morning's survey; 1) Who has actually replaced the crush sleeve? 2) which puller is used to remove the pinion bearing? ( i.e. OEM ,home made, one from amazon, etc) please post pics if necessary. The links below discuss lots about the nee to change the crush sleeve but makes no mention of a puller for the pinion bearing which is discussed in the second link.

Amazon product ASIN B07FM9KLF2

Rear pinion seal replacement

well i always use this site for looking things up, but i have never done a repair thread so here is a little job i needed to get done today. tools for the job -30mm socket -breaker bar -two 14 mm wrenches -2x4 -hammer -flat head screw driver -gear oil -new seal (national seal pn-1177)...

forum.ih8mud.com

Some OTC Toyota SST prices

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[baldilocks]

Lead the way and the masses will follow and learn.

 

[Railwelder93]

It looks to me like it would be just as easy to pull the diff and beat the pinion out with a brass hammer, rather than mess with that puller.
You can get away with just a new seal and new pinion nut if you are careful. But it’s not the “correct” way to do it.

Anyway to answer your poll I pulled the third. IMO it sound like more at first, but it’s just easier to do a better job with everything on a bench.

 

[-Spike-]

AFAIK you shouldn't have to remove the bearing to change the seal. If you do, you're into gear set-up territory, which is a magical land that few return happy from. Most people opt to have a pro do that, or either know what they're doing or screw it up and then have a pro do it.

 

[Pin_Head]

You don’t need to pull the bearing and replace the crush sleeve just to replace the seal. You replace the seal and then reuse the nut tightening it to just past the point where it was staked when you took it out. Test the overall preload before and after you replace the nut and make sure it is not too tight. If it is OK, then stake the nut and drive off.

 

[80JDM]

You don’t need to pull the bearing and replace the crush sleeve just to replace the seal. You replace the seal and then reuse the nut tightening it to just past the point where it was staked when you took it out. Test the overall preload before and after you replace the nut and make sure it is not too tight. If it is OK, then stake the nut and drive off.

Hey Pin Head, Thanks for your reply. Agreed. But if the pre-load is too tight (which would be almost every time and just dumb luck to get it right) then you would need a crush sleeve to get it right. I'm not sure that I agree with this philosophy.

 

[Railwelder93]

What pinhead said can totally work. It’s not FSM correct way, but it is a real world (good enough, is good enough) way to get the job done.

This is the only way I have seen our fleet shop at work do pinion seals. Measure threads past the nut, run the nut off, knock out flange, replace seal, put it back slightly tighter using the laser eyeball/ mechanic feel.

 

[bhsdriller]

What pinhead said can totally work. It’s not FSM correct way, but it is a real world (good enough, is good enough) way to get the job done.

This is the only way I have seen our fleet shop at work do pinion seals. Measure threads past the nut, run the nut off, knock out flange, replace seal, put it back slightly tighter using the laser eyeball/ mechanic feel.

I did this ~4 years ago and it's still fine

 

[Howard705]

Done lots in other stuff (other older makes) (including LC without replacing- feel the rolling torque for overtightening. Have also hammered sleeve back or jimmied out bearing and thrown on a thin spacer (out of random shimming leftovers ) and then tightened.

 

[Pin_Head]

If the preload is too tight, back the nut off and try again. As long as there is some preload and it is not too tight, it should be good. If it fails some time down the road, you are not much worse off that you are now.

 

[thatcabledude]

What pinhead said. I followed that procedure on one before. It was fine for 8 years.

 

[chap79]

Some good advice here. Only thing I can think to add is to put some grease inside the crush sleeve to hold it centered on the pinion. They can easily slip a little and oblong when you crush it. And then your preload will be all wonky when you check it.

 

[Kernal]

Is there any play in the rear pinion shaft? ie: if you push and pull on the driveshaft close to the pinion flange is there any off-axis movement
of the flange? Has it been flinging oil all over, up on the floor boards,
or just a little seep of gear oil??

 

[TurboDennis]

I was looking to replace the rear axle pinion seal this weekend and discovered that for some reason, Toyota decided to require a special puller (09556-22010) to remove the 'outer' pinion bearing. In order to complete this task correctly, the crush sleeve must be replaced and the bearing preload must be re-established, and the new seal installed, etc. I have searched high and low for commentary about this on the forums and have come up empty handed. Its hard for me to believe that everyone would simply ignore what I consider to be a critical step in the procedure that will ensure long bearing life. So I have two questions for this morning's survey; 1) Who has actually replaced the crush sleeve? 2) which puller is used to remove the pinion bearing? ( i.e. OEM ,home made, one from amazon, etc) please post pics if necessary. The links below discuss lots about the nee to change the crush sleeve but makes no mention of a puller for the pinion bearing which is discussed in the second link.

View attachment 2220564
Amazon product ASIN B07FM9KLF2

Rear pinion seal replacement

well i always use this site for looking things up, but i have never done a repair thread so here is a little job i needed to get done today. tools for the job -30mm socket -breaker bar -two 14 mm wrenches -2x4 -hammer -flat head screw driver -gear oil -new seal (national seal pn-1177)...

forum.ih8mud.com

Some OTC Toyota SST prices

forum.ih8mud.com

Dont listen to anyone telling you to "just replace the seal and put the nut back in original position".
This is WRONG. Anyone saying this has NO CLUE what the purpose of the crush sleeve is.
Yes, majority of people have done it that (the wrong) way and got away with it for a while. Some longer than others.

But the way you want to do it is the ONLY way to do it right.

Toyota SST is the easiest way to pull the bearing. I bought one for that reason after trying to grind my own jaws for a puller with no success.
Other ways of doing it include welding something to the inner race to pull it off the pinion.
Sometimes you might get lucky and get it off with a combination of various picks.

 

[Railwelder93]

Dont listen to anyone telling you to "just replace the seal and put the nut back in original position".
This is WRONG. Anyone saying this has NO CLUE what the purpose of the crush sleeve is.
Yes, majority of people have done it that (the wrong) way and got away with it for a while. Some longer than others.

But the way you want to do it is the ONLY way to do it right.

Toyota SST is the easiest way to pull the bearing. I bought one for that reason after trying to grind my own jaws for a puller with no success.
Other ways of doing it include welding something to the inner race to pull it off the pinion.
Sometimes you might get lucky and get it off with a combination of various picks.

View attachment 2221034

I think most everyone here knows what a crush sleeve is and how it works, some probably set up their own diffs too.
Knowing differentials and having a good feel for them, you can totally take the nut and flange off and change just the seal.
Also it has been acknowledged that this is not the FSM way to do it. It’s not the best way to do it, but if you know what your doing it can be done no problem.

Anyway I set mine up with solid spacers for exactly this situation, and I’d rather pull a diff any day than mess around on the ground with a bearing puller.

 

[TurboDennis]

I think most everyone here knows what a crush sleeve is and how it works, some probably set up their own diffs too.
Knowing differentials and having a good feel for them, you can totally take the nut and flange off and change just the seal.
Also it has been acknowledged that this is not the FSM way to do it. It’s not the best way to do it, but if you know what your doing it can be done no problem.

Anyway I set mine up with solid spacers for exactly this situation, and I’d rather pull a diff any day than mess around on the ground with a bearing puller.

Many people familiar with differentials may know "what a crush sleeve is and how it works" , but i have observed that very few people actually know what purpose it serves. That's why you have so many people suggesting that it's OK to reuse one.

 

[80JDM]

Dont listen to anyone telling you to "just replace the seal and put the nut back in original position".
This is WRONG. Anyone saying this has NO CLUE what the purpose of the crush sleeve is.
Yes, majority of people have done it that (the wrong) way and got away with it for a while. Some longer than others.

But the way you want to do it is the ONLY way to do it right.

Toyota SST is the easiest way to pull the bearing. I bought one for that reason after trying to grind my own jaws for a puller with no success.
Other ways of doing it include welding something to the inner race to pull it off the pinion.
Sometimes you might get lucky and get it off with a combination of various picks.

View attachment 2221034

Did you order it from a dealer or get it online?

 

[TurboDennis]

Did you order it from a dealer or get it online?

I ordered it online a while back. I dont even remember where, to be honest. I just remember that it was pricey.

If you dont replace these seals somewhat regularly (like i do), it's probably not worth the expense to buy the tool. It is possible to get the bearing off without it. Hard, but possible.

 

[Atwalz]

I actually encountered a pinion seal leak on a newly built diff with lockers by Marlin Crawler. So instead of taking the diff and sending it back to them for warranty work. I decided to have them ship me a new seal and flange nut. I scheduled an appointment with Valley Hybrids and have them replace the seal. It took less than 45 minutes to finish the work. Drain the diff, remove driveshaft, and unstake flange nut, remove flange nut, pull flange, and remove seal. The tech installed new eco seal with Toyota‘s FIPG and apply some FIPG to splines as well.. I called the Marlin Crawler to verify the type of sleeve the used for diff build either a solid spacer versus a crush sleeve. If a solid spacer was used then torque would’ve been 100 foot pounds. Since the crush sleeve was used, torque flange nut to 30 ft-lb and stake nut. Connect the driveshaft torque the nuts and refill gear oil.

 

[richardlillard1]

Talked with Zuk (@gearinstalls.com ) about this recently, actually.

The crush sleeve doesn’t know the difference, so remove the nut, pull the flange, replace the seal and install the nut to stake in the same position as before. I trust his word on this.