Pics of cams at proper TDC
- Thread starter ariff
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
- Thread starter
- #23
180 degrees from the intake cam dot marker.. The way they are installed now they do not jive with the service manual of two dots one dot one dot two dots:
- Thread starter
- #25
I will check torque specs as well since I am in there..
- Thread starter
- #26
Did this as well that would be No. 1 TDC on the intake stroke correct? Rotor pointing at number 6? If so here is a pic of that:
- Thread starter
- #27
No they are not ;>(
- Thread starter
- #28
Even better plan that just dawned on me while i was talking to my son at dinner. ;>)
Clearly the exhaust and intake cams are 180 degrees out, which is what I asked you about. There is no rotation where the dots on the intake and exhaust cam will line up. It is not 180 degrees out of phase with the crank. You need to remove the exhaust cam and reinstall in in phase. You also need to verify that the crank and intake cam gear are properly timed.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #30
Sorry bear with me here as I am a beginner with this stuff.. But from reading the FSM when cylinder no.1 is at TDC on the compression stroke the dots should all line up properly like this correct?
Spin the engine until the intake cam has one dot in the middle and 2 dots to the outside then just remove the exhaust cam and put it back in with the one dot to the middle and 2 to the outside as your fsm pic shows. You are overthinking the compression stroke as it's the cam position that makes it the compression stroke. If you spin the engine until you have one dot towards the center on the intake cam is the #1 piston at tdc with the timing mark on the crank pulley lining up with the marker on the cover? If so leave it there and remove and replace the exhaust cam. You aren't going to mess anything up by taking it out using the fsm sequence because it's 180 out, and nothing's been damaged by it being 180 off and you trying to start it. You can do this in a very short time and I bet it starts, forget checking the valve clearances etc for now that won't stop it starting unless they are all way too tight and none of the valves ever close completely even if one or 2 are too tight which I doubt you will most likely just have a miss where that one cylinder doesn't fire. Line up the intake dots right then flip the exhaust and you will be good.
- Thread starter
- #32
Yes this is true if I have one dot in the middle on the intake 0 lines up with the block timing mark and the rotor points to number 6. However if I leave it like this and remove the exhaust cam I can't follow the FSM to remove it as the lobes on 4 and 6 will not be lined up correctly to lift it out.. Right?
This is why I said to rotate the engine until the exhayst cam
Is where is needs to be for safe removal. Remove exhaust cam, rotate crank and intake to where it needs to be and then intall exhaust cam and everything else per FSM.
This is where I was trying to lead you earlier today.
@baldilocks is absolutely correct.. the exhaust cam must be properly positioned to the HEAD AND VALVES and removed FIRST. Then you can reposition the intake cam using the hex section in the middle. If it was me, I would take them both out and check the head torque then reinstall from the beginning, following the FSM.
@baldilocks is absolutely correct.. the exhaust cam must be properly positioned to the HEAD AND VALVES and removed FIRST. Then you can reposition the intake cam using the hex section in the middle. If it was me, I would take them both out and check the head torque then reinstall from the beginning, following the FSM.
- Thread starter
- #35
Yeah it is all making sense now. Thanks for helping me see the light 
I think I have a good plan now..
I think I have a good plan now..
ppc
M Go Blue
Follow what baldlocks and BILT4ME has stated in posts #33 and #34. This is what I tried to state in post #8. You really need to follow the FSM as much as possible.
Start with the #1 piston to top dead center. Removing the cam timing gear which divorces the crank/piston position from the cams. Reinstalling the cam timing gear, chain tensioner and distributor are last steps that marries the crank/pisition to the cams and establishes the cam timing to crank position.
The intake cam gets positioned in a specfic position (two dots at 35 degrees), to the inside, "lightly" slide the cam forward as much as possible. This will help to provide space to mesh the gears. You align the the two dots of the exhaust cam to the two dots of the intake and allow the exhaust cam to roll into position on the journals while the intake cam remains stationary. That positions the exhaust cam in the correct orintation to start intalling the initial set of caps.
As others have stated make sure you use the two "services bolts" on the two piece exhaust cam gear as outlined in the FSM before installin that cam.
Start with the #1 piston to top dead center. Removing the cam timing gear which divorces the crank/piston position from the cams. Reinstalling the cam timing gear, chain tensioner and distributor are last steps that marries the crank/pisition to the cams and establishes the cam timing to crank position.
The intake cam gets positioned in a specfic position (two dots at 35 degrees), to the inside, "lightly" slide the cam forward as much as possible. This will help to provide space to mesh the gears. You align the the two dots of the exhaust cam to the two dots of the intake and allow the exhaust cam to roll into position on the journals while the intake cam remains stationary. That positions the exhaust cam in the correct orintation to start intalling the initial set of caps.
As others have stated make sure you use the two "services bolts" on the two piece exhaust cam gear as outlined in the FSM before installin that cam.
Malleus
Far west of Siegen
Be careful doing this. There are two torque values: static torque and dynamic torque. They are just what they sound like they would be. Static torque is what you have to overcome to get a bolt (or nut) moving. Dynamic torque is the value you read on the torque wrench as the bolt is turning.
You can prove this to yourself. Loosen a bolt, which has been seated, with a torque wrench and watch the torque value drop as soon as the bolt moves. Static torque is generally 30% higher than dynamic torque. (this is not an absolute value, just a measure for comparison!)
If you really want to know what the torque value of the installed head bolts are, you have to loosen them and reinstall as per the FSM. Trying to check them by using a torque wrench after they have been installed is inviting a broken head bolt.
- Thread starter
- #39
Well I jumped in tonight and gave it my best shot and found more half ass stuff the previous mechanic did.. I don't even want to call him that anymore. He is not a mechanic.. He is a gremlin yes that is what he is to me now a gremlin.. Not the cute fuzzy kind the mean green kind.. Anyhow here is what I found. The sub gear and main gear holes do not line up so I could not put a bolt through it. I am not even sure what the purpose of these are and if I need to remedy it here is a pic:
I then proceeded to remove the exhaust cam per the fsm the best I could. The part about lining up the two dots at 35 degrees off kinda made me scratch my head. I think this is done to allow the lobes to raise the cam from the 4 and 6 bearing journals when you remove the caps. Any how I got it all out. And in the process of removing the bearing caps I noticed the number 2 cap was missing a bolt. Well that's because one was broken off inside great.. I am hoping an easy out can remove it. I did not have one handy to try.. Any suggestions here?
I then set the intake cam to the proper orientation and test fit the exhaust cam again with the two dots in the center 35 degrees off and let the exhaust cam roll down into the journal. I installed the bearing caps and rotated the cams and they are lining up now. I think I have them setup correctly. I have been doing this all with the timing gear removed and no 1 cylinder at TDC compression. I guess before I button everything back up I need to figure out about the sub\main service hole is that a big deal not lining up and if so how to fix it. And how to remove the broken stud from the no. 2 cap hole. I also took the time to clean the valve cover and throttle body\IAC figured that could not hurt anything while they were out..
Almost there fingers still crossed.. And my eyes are a little as well ;>)
I then proceeded to remove the exhaust cam per the fsm the best I could. The part about lining up the two dots at 35 degrees off kinda made me scratch my head. I think this is done to allow the lobes to raise the cam from the 4 and 6 bearing journals when you remove the caps. Any how I got it all out. And in the process of removing the bearing caps I noticed the number 2 cap was missing a bolt. Well that's because one was broken off inside great.. I am hoping an easy out can remove it. I did not have one handy to try.. Any suggestions here?
I then set the intake cam to the proper orientation and test fit the exhaust cam again with the two dots in the center 35 degrees off and let the exhaust cam roll down into the journal. I installed the bearing caps and rotated the cams and they are lining up now. I think I have them setup correctly. I have been doing this all with the timing gear removed and no 1 cylinder at TDC compression. I guess before I button everything back up I need to figure out about the sub\main service hole is that a big deal not lining up and if so how to fix it. And how to remove the broken stud from the no. 2 cap hole. I also took the time to clean the valve cover and throttle body\IAC figured that could not hurt anything while they were out..
Almost there fingers still crossed.. And my eyes are a little as well ;>)
Way to jump in! Do yourself a favor and take the time to paint your valve cover, you'll be happy every time you open your hood!
