Building a 3200 SQ FT fab/machine and automotive shop. 40'X80' with a lot of concrete work to include a custom trench drain system.
Phase III of concrete for shop
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- #2
Stripped the forms on the west end trench drain system today. Came out the way I wanted, clean 1.5" X 1.5" notch. The notch will support bar grading (12" W X 3'L) sections. the bottom of the trench still needs back fill and slope to the south end dumping into a leach field type set up. I will pour the trench when I pour the last of the 17 yards of concrete for the west end driveway.
- Thread starter
- #3
Formed up the ends of the trench drain and layed down some re bar. pouring tomorrow.
I'd fix the block outs on the OHDs now, otherwise they'll never seal right and always leak around the jamb. Most commercial doors are a 2" track, minimum, and should go to the bottom of the door block out.
The bottom angle adds another 1".
The inside edge of the block out should be 9.5" from inside of form, 8" from steel line.
Also, all metal building walk doors are designed to swing out and will leak, swinging in, plus I believe it's a national fire code.
The bottom angle adds another 1".
The inside edge of the block out should be 9.5" from inside of form, 8" from steel line.
Also, all metal building walk doors are designed to swing out and will leak, swinging in, plus I believe it's a national fire code.
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- #5
Hi Delancy,
I was golfing at a fund raiser when the OHD where formed up and never caught the error. Your absolutely 100% correct 8" from steel line or 9.5" from form. I decided to leave as is and mount door right to edge of notch and dry pac the end around the c perlin.
The man door had to swing in due to close proximity of existing shop side door and cooler. As far as fire code, not as issue as this is my private home shop. The build prints indicated Right/left/in/out. I'm not sure why this would leak as it has a tight seal. No driving rain will hit this door as the existing building is 14' high and 9" away.
I do thank you for your feedback tho.
I was golfing at a fund raiser when the OHD where formed up and never caught the error. Your absolutely 100% correct 8" from steel line or 9.5" from form. I decided to leave as is and mount door right to edge of notch and dry pac the end around the c perlin.
The man door had to swing in due to close proximity of existing shop side door and cooler. As far as fire code, not as issue as this is my private home shop. The build prints indicated Right/left/in/out. I'm not sure why this would leak as it has a tight seal. No driving rain will hit this door as the existing building is 14' high and 9" away.
I do thank you for your feedback tho.
Obviously, my input was unsolicited, but have encountered issues from both circumstances and relaying experiences.
To further the unasked for....
The door block outs aren't that big of a deal to notch and grind with a quickie saw and grinder. About a two to three hour job with the right equipment and skilled operator.
That said, I understand the aversion to, and there are high density rubber thresholds that'll seal, provide a slope, and extended to the outer edges of both door jambs, giving a finished appearance and weather tight seal.
Door company may be privy to, or have something similar, but what I've used literally appears it was made for this circumstance, came in 7" longer lengths to be cut around a typical 3 1/2" jambs.
At the very least, notching out behind the door jambs so the tracks can extend to the bottom of the threshold, might be a consideration. The bulbous seal at the bottom on the door may seal to the inside lip of the block out.
The walk door looks like a Premier brand door, ever typical to metal buildings. If you'll look at the threshold, if installed correctly it will funnel water, in. Caulking the base to the finished floor height concrete will be a continual maintenance item as well, because there are but a few sealants that adhere well concrete for this application.
As for IBC egress requirements, it's really dependent upon how savvy code enforcement is, and how they interpret the building code, so may be a non-issue in this circumstance, but there are very few circumstances where a commercial door swings in due to the perceived hindrance to open, in a fire event.
In no way, shape, or form am I trying to rain on your parade and I pray that's understood. I've encountered both these issues, along with a plethora of others in the twenty years I've been in the commercial/industrial metal building industry.
Edited:
These areas are an impossibility to seal.
And the sidewalk appears to be ~36", so I'd think it'd swing out, no problem.
To further the unasked for....
The door block outs aren't that big of a deal to notch and grind with a quickie saw and grinder. About a two to three hour job with the right equipment and skilled operator.
That said, I understand the aversion to, and there are high density rubber thresholds that'll seal, provide a slope, and extended to the outer edges of both door jambs, giving a finished appearance and weather tight seal.
Door company may be privy to, or have something similar, but what I've used literally appears it was made for this circumstance, came in 7" longer lengths to be cut around a typical 3 1/2" jambs.
At the very least, notching out behind the door jambs so the tracks can extend to the bottom of the threshold, might be a consideration. The bulbous seal at the bottom on the door may seal to the inside lip of the block out.
The walk door looks like a Premier brand door, ever typical to metal buildings. If you'll look at the threshold, if installed correctly it will funnel water, in. Caulking the base to the finished floor height concrete will be a continual maintenance item as well, because there are but a few sealants that adhere well concrete for this application.
As for IBC egress requirements, it's really dependent upon how savvy code enforcement is, and how they interpret the building code, so may be a non-issue in this circumstance, but there are very few circumstances where a commercial door swings in due to the perceived hindrance to open, in a fire event.
In no way, shape, or form am I trying to rain on your parade and I pray that's understood. I've encountered both these issues, along with a plethora of others in the twenty years I've been in the commercial/industrial metal building industry.
Edited:
These areas are an impossibility to seal.
And the sidewalk appears to be ~36", so I'd think it'd swing out, no problem.
- Thread starter
- #7
Delancy,
I respect and appreciate your input. I will look into renting a concrete saw to remedy tho OHD issue. I was planning on skinning the building next week. Still need to install the base angles prior. I will take a close look-at the threshold.
Take care.
Poured the trench drain today. slopes 3" in 45'.
I respect and appreciate your input. I will look into renting a concrete saw to remedy tho OHD issue. I was planning on skinning the building next week. Still need to install the base angles prior. I will take a close look-at the threshold.
Take care.
Poured the trench drain today. slopes 3" in 45'.
All stated without a hint of arrogance, I swear, based on assumptions and only with the absolute purist intent.
If you've unanswered questions or simply interested in hearing another means to skin the proverbial cat on the balance of your project, don't hesitate to contact.
I don't know much about Cruisers but have encountered every possible configuration, panel, product introduced in the metal building industry.
Chris
If you've unanswered questions or simply interested in hearing another means to skin the proverbial cat on the balance of your project, don't hesitate to contact.
I don't know much about Cruisers but have encountered every possible configuration, panel, product introduced in the metal building industry.
Chris
- Thread starter
- #9
Laid in the bar grating. I still need to "band" the sides of the sections, but at least I won't fall when drinking and walking
The drain system is rated for 10,000 lb. load.
The drain system is rated for 10,000 lb. load.
I would Love to have a drain system like that around my shed.
Looking Good!
Looking Good!
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- #11
Thanks, It should shed the monsoon down pours we get on occasion. The shop addition came years after the existing slab and location of house resulting in the drain system requirement. I started "skinning" the new shop over the past two days. Two of us where able to put up 180' worth of walls. Remarkably the weather (wind) was very calm
Peace
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- #12
Skinning the shop
Hung 2,240 sqft of sides over the last two days (two guys). Way too windy today with gusts of 30-35 mph. I just had to park the 40 inside to show the scale of the shop. She looks lonly all by her self
.
Hung 2,240 sqft of sides over the last two days (two guys). Way too windy today with gusts of 30-35 mph. I just had to park the 40 inside to show the scale of the shop. She looks lonly all by her self
.
- Thread starter
- #14
You got that right brother! I opted to send back the R-10 bs insulation for a full refund
I knew it would take me some time to complete the skinning and was concerned about rain prior to drying in. The amount of $$ I have saved erecting the building myself I'm going with R-30 all the way around and covering with Skrim sheeting held in place via clips and wire. I also installed inner base angle 8" from outer BA to allow placement of 4'X8'X3/4" plywood walls. This will allow me to run most of the electrical inside the walls and at the same time gives me a solid mounting surface for air hose/ electric reels and such.You do nice work, I was checking out your post on the roofing project you did in Oklahoma. Those sheets where long SOB's and had complicated angles to boot.
Nice work
My unsolicited opinion. I'll delete shortly.
At the very least, itch your roof with the 3", trust me. While the 3" WMP-VR R-10 doesn't afford much, what it does do is minimize the condensation that'll accumulate on the underside of the panels. It's not the best insulation, but there are reasons why 90% of a metal buildings have it installed.
Here's what happens without the blanket sandwiched between the panel and the purlin.
Condensation will occur, even on your wall panels, and become trapped in between your R panel exterior wall and your insulated interior.
On the wall, it'll run down the inside of the panel highs right into the sheet notch. Even though not desirable, at least it has an outlet.
On the roof, it'll sweat into whatever your interior finish that the batt or other itch is supported on, become trapped, an be a nightmare down the road.
Even in an insulated metal building, water will condensate on the screw tips, inevitable corroding the fastener and the penetration point through the purlin, to the point the screw no longer grips. This may take longer than you'll own the building, but have seen this occur on structure locally that were built from late 70s into the late 80s. Literally can pull the screw through the purlin.
Granted, every climate is different, but none are impervious to dew points, and regardless of any interior barrier, it will occur on the bottoms of the sheets, be it closured roofs/walls, vented roofs/walls, condensation can even occur on the bottom of the vinyl backing in some instances.
Again, all unsolicited, but have pulled many roofs to correct these issues, some with very expensive polystyrene apply in place systems, since it's impossible to keep condensation from occurring inside the highs of the R panel.
On the buildings I own that are climate controlled, I run 2" metal banding every 3-4' on the bottom of the purlins, then run custom 4" thick roof rolls with specific backing widths and tabs in between the purlins, pulling the tabs out and sealing to the bottom of the purlin. then lay a 4" blanket only on top of the purlins, with thermal breaks in between the purlin and the clips or sheets, effectively sealing the interior from the structure above the bottom of the purlin to roof deck, plus having an uncompressed 8" of itch, affording R-26 to R-30.
Sounds extreme, but a for instance.
I can maintain a 45% RH in 36,000sf of climate controlled storage, keeping the thermostat at 72 year round, all for around $900 a month.
Talked to much to say. If you weren't considering the 3" wrap between the purlins and the roof sheets, do a little homework in your area to see the experiences of others.
Forgot where you are, but surely have someone close, in the event you'd like to talk to a local builder.
Again, don't quote and I'll delete, just hate to see a future issue not stated to be worthy of further investigation.
At the very least, itch your roof with the 3", trust me. While the 3" WMP-VR R-10 doesn't afford much, what it does do is minimize the condensation that'll accumulate on the underside of the panels. It's not the best insulation, but there are reasons why 90% of a metal buildings have it installed.
Here's what happens without the blanket sandwiched between the panel and the purlin.
Condensation will occur, even on your wall panels, and become trapped in between your R panel exterior wall and your insulated interior.
On the wall, it'll run down the inside of the panel highs right into the sheet notch. Even though not desirable, at least it has an outlet.
On the roof, it'll sweat into whatever your interior finish that the batt or other itch is supported on, become trapped, an be a nightmare down the road.
Even in an insulated metal building, water will condensate on the screw tips, inevitable corroding the fastener and the penetration point through the purlin, to the point the screw no longer grips. This may take longer than you'll own the building, but have seen this occur on structure locally that were built from late 70s into the late 80s. Literally can pull the screw through the purlin.
Granted, every climate is different, but none are impervious to dew points, and regardless of any interior barrier, it will occur on the bottoms of the sheets, be it closured roofs/walls, vented roofs/walls, condensation can even occur on the bottom of the vinyl backing in some instances.
Again, all unsolicited, but have pulled many roofs to correct these issues, some with very expensive polystyrene apply in place systems, since it's impossible to keep condensation from occurring inside the highs of the R panel.
On the buildings I own that are climate controlled, I run 2" metal banding every 3-4' on the bottom of the purlins, then run custom 4" thick roof rolls with specific backing widths and tabs in between the purlins, pulling the tabs out and sealing to the bottom of the purlin. then lay a 4" blanket only on top of the purlins, with thermal breaks in between the purlin and the clips or sheets, effectively sealing the interior from the structure above the bottom of the purlin to roof deck, plus having an uncompressed 8" of itch, affording R-26 to R-30.
Sounds extreme, but a for instance.
I can maintain a 45% RH in 36,000sf of climate controlled storage, keeping the thermostat at 72 year round, all for around $900 a month.
Talked to much to say. If you weren't considering the 3" wrap between the purlins and the roof sheets, do a little homework in your area to see the experiences of others.
Forgot where you are, but surely have someone close, in the event you'd like to talk to a local builder.
Again, don't quote and I'll delete, just hate to see a future issue not stated to be worthy of further investigation.
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- #16
PM sent, please do not delete your wanted advice.
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- #17
40'x80' shop
Past our final inspection with the county. Now its time for the fun to begin.
Past our final inspection with the county. Now its time for the fun to begin.
- Thread starter
- #19
Hi Delancy,
The plans refer to one end as non expandable. Mueller inc. designed and sold me the building. To be honest, I assumed the heavier end (west) was due to the two door openings. My area also required a 115mph wind (3 sec.) load.
The garage doors will be in soon, one roll up and three overhead jack shaft type.
I decided to go with the one rollup door (NE) where the two post lift will be installed.Over all she's coming together.
Oh BYW, we used a thermal break foam product on the top of the Z-perlins prior to skinning. I used information from your previous post to find the product.
Take care,
Thanks again for your help.
By design, the sub structural on this end could remove and be seamlessly added on to:
Not saying that the openings may not have contributed to the user inputted standards a particular fabricator can determine in software, but atypical to what would be a standard based on assumed loads.
I'm one of the few that appreciate the nuances in design of varying producers for different markets, and inquiry was based on curiosity, only. There's very few software options and, based on the appearance, the producer of yours utilizes MBS, too, so cool to see the differences.
If you haven't bought the roll up door already, check out Janus International's offerings.
Looking good!
Not saying that the openings may not have contributed to the user inputted standards a particular fabricator can determine in software, but atypical to what would be a standard based on assumed loads.
I'm one of the few that appreciate the nuances in design of varying producers for different markets, and inquiry was based on curiosity, only. There's very few software options and, based on the appearance, the producer of yours utilizes MBS, too, so cool to see the differences.
If you haven't bought the roll up door already, check out Janus International's offerings.
Looking good!
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