OME BP-51 OWNERS...... ROLL CALL.........

[Markuson]

I read a thread on there (was in an FJ forum) where he took it to ARB, but it was a dry UCA that was making the racket.

On the other hand, they did seem to have a significant issue with oil leaking. My rears leak more than is normal... They've addressed that already in the rear revision.

On the other hand...ARB was re-installing new sets FOR them!

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Yea, @Markuson brings up good point.

We've seen pictures of more moisture reside on BP-51s bodies than say your Icon/King/Fox shocks. That shows me they have made changes, but and if it helps reduce the sound a bypass shock makes when it cycles (where as an internal floating piston design is naturally a tad quieter, example ICON/King OEM shocks) then maybe that works better for all of us.

That said, i'm glad I have one of the first more race oriented BPs over the newer, more OEM internals oriented of the new design. Especially since i don't have a clunk and not moisture on my bodies. Maybe I got lucky, or maybe just a few got unlucky, who knows.

 

[mark71]

When I had the BP-51s, some of the shocks clunked, some didn't. If clunking is a normal feature of a bypass shock, then only some of the shocks were malfunctioning. Was it the clunking shocks? The non-clunking shocks? Either way, something was not right.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

When I had the BP-51s, some of the shocks clunked, some didn't. If clunking is a normal feature of a bypass shock, then only some of the shocks were malfunctioning. Was it the clunking shocks? The non-clunking shocks? Either way, something was not right.

which corners clunked? And was it the same shocks overtime, or did the clunk move around?

 

[BW200]

Disclaimer: I don't have any of these (yet), so who am I to say, but I'm going to give my expert opinion anyhow...

Since I've been looking into all of these options for my new LC, I have been reading with interest all of the opinions and real-world experiences and such. And @Taco2Cruiser , I appreciate your experience, especially the info about the easy adjustability of the "race" type shock Icons vs. the OME's, etc. I have also paid attention to what others have said about durability, ride quality, problems, pros/cons of the different makes.

I don't think that the "race" shocks should have any stickiness, loud valve operation, or any other noise-making bang/pop/thud/clunk/hammer/tap/rattle, or any noise other than the sound of fluid flow just because they are "race" shocks. I don't think any of the manufacturers or their engineers would think that is acceptable in any way. And from what I have seen on this forum and others, and youtube videos, it reasonably appears that people are having clunking and rattling noises coming from their suspensions after installing these products.

The key information in this is that most of these people are DIY, or are going to their local "off-road" garage, and who knows what level of experience, knowledge or expertise they are finding there, if any. I have serious doubts that most of these parts-changers have any real idea what they are doing, what the nuances of design and engineering application are, or what problems can develop from lack of attention to detail and quality control.

The other key information is that these noises developed after making the suspension modifications. So the suspect is obviously what was changed at that time.

So now for the expert opinion: There is something loose somewhere, and most probably it is the shock eyelet/bolt/bushing mounting hardware. These new lifted off-road suspension systems that guys are installing seem to be working fine in most use, even off-road, so the idea that there is some faulty shock valve or something is unlikely. And the fact that the noise is noticable on relatively smooth highways, when just hitting normal cracks in the streets is very informative. This means that it is a very small tolerance part that has just enough free slip to move around under light motion, maybe only a millimeter. The big whoops and drops off-road are making noise once in each direction, but on-road it's a rattle - on every bump.

I would suggest to these guys that they double-check the interference fit and size difference at the ends of the shock at the eyelets, to make sure the mounting bolt and eyelet bushing are snug fit. Any gap here will move. Same goes for the UCA and LCA mounting bushings/cams/bolts. All of this stuff should be almost interference fit, not 0.5 mm and maybe not even 0.1 mm - or there will be noise. You can't put a 14mm bolt in a 15mm bushing and expect that tightening the bolt will stop it from moving - it won't.

As usual - just my $0.02.

 

[Island1064]

Just adding my experience, got my BP-51 installed last July, for the first 6 months, no clunks, then the weather started to cool and the clunks appeared in both front shocks, brought it up to ARB who send a replacement fronts struts, started to clunk immediately.
Clunk happens in colder weather 70's or under on small road imperfections at slower speed ay time you can feel it in the steering, clunk does seem to be attenuated when you raise the compression setting. Waiting on ARB to see if I stick with them or move on to Icon's
The temperature is warmer now so all good. no issues off road or high speed interstate.

 

[mark71]

which corners clunked? And was it the same shocks overtime, or did the clunk move around?

Clunk did not move around.

Disclaimer: I don't have any of these (yet), so who am I to say, but I'm going to give my expert opinion anyhow...

Since I've been looking into all of these options for my new LC, I have been reading with interest all of the opinions and real-world experiences and such. And @Taco2Cruiser , I appreciate your experience, especially the info about the easy adjustability of the "race" type shock Icons vs. the OME's, etc. I have also paid attention to what others have said about durability, ride quality, problems, pros/cons of the different makes.

I don't think that the "race" shocks should have any stickiness, loud valve operation, or any other noise-making bang/pop/thud/clunk/hammer/tap/rattle, or any noise other than the sound of fluid flow just because they are "race" shocks. I don't think any of the manufacturers or their engineers would think that is acceptable in any way. And from what I have seen on this forum and others, and youtube videos, it reasonably appears that people are having clunking and rattling noises coming from their suspensions after installing these products.

The key information in this is that most of these people are DIY, or are going to their local "off-road" garage, and who knows what level of experience, knowledge or expertise they are finding there, if any. I have serious doubts that most of these parts-changers have any real idea what they are doing, what the nuances of design and engineering application are, or what problems can develop from lack of attention to detail and quality control.

The other key information is that these noises developed after making the suspension modifications. So the suspect is obviously what was changed at that time.

So now for the expert opinion: There is something loose somewhere, and most probably it is the shock eyelet/bolt/bushing mounting hardware. These new lifted off-road suspension systems that guys are installing seem to be working fine in most use, even off-road, so the idea that there is some faulty shock valve or something is unlikely. And the fact that the noise is noticable on relatively smooth highways, when just hitting normal cracks in the streets is very informative. This means that it is a very small tolerance part that has just enough free slip to move around under light motion, maybe only a millimeter. The big whoops and drops off-road are making noise once in each direction, but on-road it's a rattle - on every bump.

I would suggest to these guys that they double-check the interference fit and size difference at the ends of the shock at the eyelets, to make sure the mounting bolt and eyelet bushing are snug fit. Any gap here will move. Same goes for the UCA and LCA mounting bushings/cams/bolts. All of this stuff should be almost interference fit, not 0.5 mm and maybe not even 0.1 mm - or there will be noise. You can't put a 14mm bolt in a 15mm bushing and expect that tightening the bolt will stop it from moving - it won't.

As usual - just my $0.02.

I agree that the clunk is so loud that a reasonable person would assume "something loose somewhere". They would be wrong, but they will learn this only after tearing apart their entire suspension. Ask me how I know.

Malfunctioning bypass valves explains everything. Why only some lots are affected is known only to ARB. Being a corporation, I would assume they are in damage-control mode right now and being very careful about what they are sharing with the public.

 

[Island1064]

Yep they told me it was due to valves and that it would not impair their function/ safety. Got used to it a bit, still a little unnerving when it sounds like something is loose.

 

[arich]

I wanted to eliminate the chance that something else in the suspension wasn't loose after 3 pairs of BP51s clunked in someway. After a while you start to Think, maybe I did something wrong or forgot something. I even swapped out swaybar end links, upper ball Joints, lower ball joints all looking for the clunk when no one would believe me, when in fact it was the shocks.
Well the clunk went away with the removal of then BPs and the installation of the Konis. ARB didn't ask me to do this but I just needed to eliminate that variable.
It's been 4 days since the installation of the "new" BPs and I'm enjoying my truck again.
Alignment scheduled for Thursday.

 

[Utah200]

It's been 4 days since the installation of the "new" BPs and I'm enjoying my truck again.
Alignment scheduled for Thursday.

Ambient temps in NY these past few days? Seems cold is def a part of the equation. Just trying to understand what variables are in play.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

August nights in Breckenridge are high 30s/low40s, might be a good time to see if all of these things clunk at cold temperatures, plus compare what we define as a "clunk"

 

[BW200]

OK, I get it that the bypass valve may be sticking and not opening when it should, causing any sharp bump to be transferred more directly into the chassis. This would essentially take away any normal bypass function? Is that what the manufacturer is saying??

I was under the (probably wrong) impression that the bypass valve was for higher-energy jolts, allowing for big pressures to be bypassed around the normal valving, to soften the blow. Is this incorrect? Are they really for the soft end of the bump range? To give "floatiness" in the normal driving range?

If there is a bypass valve to seat (or pin to orifice) tolerance problem, then that would certainly explain the temperature relationship.

Still it seems strange to me that it would be such a sharp hit. You would think that the normal valves would still work, and you would just feel more bumps, not knocking.

More data please...

 

[Utah200]

August nights in Breckenridge are high 30s/low40s, might be a good time to see if all of these things clunk at cold temperatures, plus compare what we define as a "clunk"

Fxxx waiting until August.

 

[arich]

High 40s at night.
I felt the clunk all last summer. Cold just made it worse.

Easiest way to tell if you think you have a clunking is to increase compression to 10 and the clunk will disappear. As you decrease compression the clunking comes back.
By doing this you're eliminating the bypass valves and the suspension gets extremely stiff.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

**** waiting until August.

Calm down chad... we are talking about shocks, at the end of the day, it's some 1st world problems

 

[arich]

Man, I didn't see that coming

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Edit: If this post seems out of place, it was in response to an inappropriate comment made by another user. The moderator deleted all the other users posts, but kept this one from me. For the future, I don't want anyone to think what is written below, was direct at the overwhelming vast majority that of users that make Mud the best and most respectful forum around. You guys are great!

Ok, my post was mentioning Breakenridge because that is where the 200 rally is in August. Probably a good time to talk amongst other 200 owners with BP-51 shocks and see if we can find a solution to this clunking issue.

You need to seriously understand that this mud forum is a place for people to discuss and learn, not to act like a tough guy.

Now for the side on me that I try to not show, I'm not going to take crap from a bike photographer who is trying to be tougher than he really is, I didn't fight as an Infantryman during this last decade of deployments in support of GWAT to have you ruin a forum that I go to, to take my mind off all the pain and friends i've lost, especially on memorial day.

Do you understand? Who the hell do you think you are?

 

[BW200]

I wanted to eliminate the chance that something else in the suspension wasn't loose after 3 pairs of BP51s clunked in someway. After a while you start to Think, maybe I did something wrong or forgot something. I even swapped out swaybar end links, upper ball Joints, lower ball joints all looking for the clunk when no one would believe me, when in fact it was the shocks.
Well the clunk went away with the removal of then BPs and the installation of the Konis. ARB didn't ask me to do this but I just needed to eliminate that variable.
It's been 4 days since the installation of the "new" BPs and I'm enjoying my truck again.
Alignment scheduled for Thursday.

@arich - interesting that you've been through that many things trying to solve the problem, and I'm sure it's been nerve-wracking, too. Your posts are some of the ones I was mentioning before about reading about the experience others are having with the various parts. Sorry to hear you've been put through so much.

The fact that the clunk went away with the Koni's pretty much says it was the shocks in your case, so the obvious questions follow - what was it about the BP-51's? It seemed to me that everyone thought these were great, until I started reading the clunking problems like you and others have had, so now I'm very curious to keep up with the developments.

Have the ARB people given any indication yet as to what they think the problem is? I can't imagine how the bypass technology itself could be to blame. I mean, in the BP-51 case, the bypass is internal with some passive feature (like holes drilled in the tube wall or something) to let the oil bypass the piston, and flow around the outside of the main tube, giving a float in the middle of the travel. There doesn't seem to be anything that moves, other than the main piston & valving - just like any other shock. So where can it be? Maybe some problem with the way it mounts or something?

And I still can't imagine the other brands having loud clunks either simply due to valve design or something. I would understand maybe hearing a little clicking or tapping of valve operations on those like the Radflo with the external bypass valve and tube. But not a knock you can feel and hear inside the truck, and especially not on these internal types. Wonder what gives?

Inquiring minds still want to know...

 

[Virgilus11]

B200
I am in the same boat as Arich. Two shocks are been changed and same noise continue. I can increase the compression and rebound but then I will drive a wooden wheel. I had bypass Donahue (Icons) on my Tacoma and they made no noise at all but they leaked after six months and I had to rebuild them twice. The manufacture blame the salt in north east. Trash them, installed Billies 5100 and problem solved.
Now, I have a motorcycle and I installed a Touratech ( bypass , high and low speed compression and rebound adjustment, electronic preload adjustment) In a way, a little bit more complex then the BP or the Icons. 24 k miles and two years, rain, salt , winter or hot and not one single noise or problem.
My point , three different manufacturers with bypass technology and different results.
Whatever ARB did or not ? will probably never know and I am ok with that, as long they solve it. What I am not ok is how long it takes and how,no one from the Corp doesn't get in these forums and try to explain something.
We really owe a Big Thank you to Arich and the other few guys that are willing to put all this energy and money to solve this.
THANK YOU guys .

 

[arich]

Thanks I appreciate that.
I have not been compensated or reimbursed by ARB except they did offer to pick up this latest swap out because I was frustrated.
The only explanation I've gotten is that the bypass valves are Reed Valves or one way valves.
One other member had a theory that it was a hydraulic knock. Couldn't wrap my head around that.
I also pointed out that the last set I pulled out had a spherical bearing that was very loose on one side and extremely tight on the other. THAT would cause a knock. I suggested they abandon those and use rubber bushings. Didn't happen.
I can tell you that they have done something with this set. Even set at the same preload 0mm my truck is a 1/2-3/4" higher in the front that the previous sets and the ride is much softer. I suspect I am testing a revised spring but I have not been told by ARB. I guess they just want feedback. I really like what I'm riding on now. Best the truck has ever felt.
One of the things that boggles mind is ARB never wanted the clunky shocks back for inspection. I've heard this from just about every member who swapped out.
I think if we sent a pair to Brian Jowett for a tear down he'd figure it out.

Lunch is over. Have to get back to work......