Same issue- very frustrating. I have reached out to ARB to see what the will do. I am leaving on family Xmas vacation Weds. Mind you fellow mudders this is my second complete BP-51 system.
OME BP-51 OWNERS...... ROLL CALL......... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter dukmon
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Quick update- I was about to put on a set of nitro-chargers that I have to replace the BP-51s. It is 12F degrees here and has been for about that for a couple days. Thinking about the supposed value issue that sounds like a mechanical issue I recalled on my Fox FIT shock on my mountain bike when it gets cold one has to re-tune things for cold weather riding. As a shot in the dark I set the compression and rebound to 1, then drove around on paved roads that are less than smooth for about 15 minutes. During that time I head the clunk a couple times but towards the end of the 20 mins drive no my clunk. Then I set both fronts to compression of 3 and rebound of 8 as they were before and drove the same track again no more clunks. To my surprise the clunking diminished.
I am just throwing it out there is there any thoughts if the shock oil that ARB is using might be sensitive to the cold?
I am just throwing it out there is there any thoughts if the shock oil that ARB is using might be sensitive to the cold?
Those with a "clunk" - which UCAs are you running? I came across this old post in a Tundra forum, most of this is over my head but thought I'd share. Topic was why this guy no longer uses Total Chaos UCAs w/ poly bushings and went to heim joint versions, and someone asked "why". He mentioned the "clunk" being from the UCA, not shocks. It's also a post from 2009 though so maybe has been fixed?
"There is a huge, s***-filled drama thread elsewhere. I am not gonna repost it here.
The fact is, if you are using off-the-shelf parts from Kartek to build a kit with a 1" bore uniball, you're going to be using a 1" to 3/4" adapter.
You'll need to clock the uniball so that the misalignment spacers do not bind at full compression, and droop needs to be limited just before the joints bind as well. This is how your stock joints work...they can angle farther over at full compression, and the stock shock limits the droop angle. Since the uniball clocking is fixed, and the 1" to 3/4" adapter does have a limit, and droop is more readily available on stock arms than compression, the inevitable choice is to clock as much droop as possible in to the arms, meaning you must be damn sure you are running the exact same compression stops as the designer did on the test truck. You also need to ensure that the joints can never, ever bind on droop either...all the pictures of busted spindle rings on 1st-gen trucks are the result of bound suspension, either at compression or droop.
Before you run them, you need to cycle the suspension and determine if you are running a bump stop which is compatible with the compression misalignment of that 1" bore uniball and the 3/4" adapter they use. That is the "buyer beware" part of this, it is something every owner should be doing anyway, Chaos will even tell you this (if they're drug in to a s***-filled thread elsewhere)...but I do not think that long bumpstops should be an assumed part of a kit designed for additional travel, nor do I think travel should need to be limited to accommodate a major joint, particularly on compression, when the joints are clocked such that droop will bring the halfshaft in contact with the lip of the inner CV joint.
Lack of a lock nut on the long bolt through the upper control arms means that as grease is eliminated from between the arm/bushing interface through use, the poly bushings will begin to grab the arm and the large flat washers. Eventually, because the bolt is torqued to a significant amount, the arm, bushing and washer will begin to turn the nut. This wears the bolt, and introduces a sickening, extremely difficult to identify "clunk" in the front end. This isn't a Chaos problem, it's an Everyone problem who specs poly bushings in the upper control arm without providing a lock or jamb nut. The design of the lower arm doesn't allow the same thing to happen. In my experience, grease ports are a stopgap measure, and must be combined with regular maintenance...not a big deal if you're used to it, but it means loosening the bolt so the washers can move, shooting grease down the port until there's clean coming out the ends, then re-torquing. Easy job, but raise your hands if you do this. Properly done, the washers and sleeve remain fixed on the truck, and the arm and bushings rotate around the sleeve, against the washers. If the sleeve is too short, there will be too much friction between bushing and washer, leading to the problem I mentioned before. Yes, my sleeves were too short, even the replacement sleeves were too short, when I rebuilt the arms. The best solution was regular maintenance and a jamb nut...no more problems, tho the poly bushings still squeaked like the kid in that WoW video in General. I never had a problem with the uniball squeaking, ever...just corrosion, but then everything corrodes in the Midwest. Running heim joints solves the majority of the worst problems I had with the arms, living in a place that doesn't salt the s*** out of their roads solves the corrosion problem...suffice to say I'm very happy to see companies offering arms which rotate on a bearing, they are far and away better than the metal-to-metal stock configuration, and don't have the awkward maintenance issues of poly bushings. When the heims start to get loose, replace them and get an alignment...MUCH easier than replacing worn poly bushings, or all the bull**** necessary to properly grease them.
This was all from my own experience on a 1st-gen Tundra. The "good things" I hear about parts with which I've had less-than-stellar experience seem to be from two camps, people who don't know any better and stay within the realm of "basically stock" trucks (most of them), and people who assume everyone else is checking everything before they run (very few, but they exist). I no longer run Chaos arms, and the arms I had were sold for cheap to a buddy along with a different company's adapter which did not exhibit the same design limitations as the off-the-shelf parts. The arms I do run now were a one-off (at the time), at my request because I was sick of the poly bushing bull****."
"There is a huge, s***-filled drama thread elsewhere. I am not gonna repost it here.
The fact is, if you are using off-the-shelf parts from Kartek to build a kit with a 1" bore uniball, you're going to be using a 1" to 3/4" adapter.
You'll need to clock the uniball so that the misalignment spacers do not bind at full compression, and droop needs to be limited just before the joints bind as well. This is how your stock joints work...they can angle farther over at full compression, and the stock shock limits the droop angle. Since the uniball clocking is fixed, and the 1" to 3/4" adapter does have a limit, and droop is more readily available on stock arms than compression, the inevitable choice is to clock as much droop as possible in to the arms, meaning you must be damn sure you are running the exact same compression stops as the designer did on the test truck. You also need to ensure that the joints can never, ever bind on droop either...all the pictures of busted spindle rings on 1st-gen trucks are the result of bound suspension, either at compression or droop.
Before you run them, you need to cycle the suspension and determine if you are running a bump stop which is compatible with the compression misalignment of that 1" bore uniball and the 3/4" adapter they use. That is the "buyer beware" part of this, it is something every owner should be doing anyway, Chaos will even tell you this (if they're drug in to a s***-filled thread elsewhere)...but I do not think that long bumpstops should be an assumed part of a kit designed for additional travel, nor do I think travel should need to be limited to accommodate a major joint, particularly on compression, when the joints are clocked such that droop will bring the halfshaft in contact with the lip of the inner CV joint.
Lack of a lock nut on the long bolt through the upper control arms means that as grease is eliminated from between the arm/bushing interface through use, the poly bushings will begin to grab the arm and the large flat washers. Eventually, because the bolt is torqued to a significant amount, the arm, bushing and washer will begin to turn the nut. This wears the bolt, and introduces a sickening, extremely difficult to identify "clunk" in the front end. This isn't a Chaos problem, it's an Everyone problem who specs poly bushings in the upper control arm without providing a lock or jamb nut. The design of the lower arm doesn't allow the same thing to happen. In my experience, grease ports are a stopgap measure, and must be combined with regular maintenance...not a big deal if you're used to it, but it means loosening the bolt so the washers can move, shooting grease down the port until there's clean coming out the ends, then re-torquing. Easy job, but raise your hands if you do this. Properly done, the washers and sleeve remain fixed on the truck, and the arm and bushings rotate around the sleeve, against the washers. If the sleeve is too short, there will be too much friction between bushing and washer, leading to the problem I mentioned before. Yes, my sleeves were too short, even the replacement sleeves were too short, when I rebuilt the arms. The best solution was regular maintenance and a jamb nut...no more problems, tho the poly bushings still squeaked like the kid in that WoW video in General. I never had a problem with the uniball squeaking, ever...just corrosion, but then everything corrodes in the Midwest. Running heim joints solves the majority of the worst problems I had with the arms, living in a place that doesn't salt the s*** out of their roads solves the corrosion problem...suffice to say I'm very happy to see companies offering arms which rotate on a bearing, they are far and away better than the metal-to-metal stock configuration, and don't have the awkward maintenance issues of poly bushings. When the heims start to get loose, replace them and get an alignment...MUCH easier than replacing worn poly bushings, or all the bull**** necessary to properly grease them.
This was all from my own experience on a 1st-gen Tundra. The "good things" I hear about parts with which I've had less-than-stellar experience seem to be from two camps, people who don't know any better and stay within the realm of "basically stock" trucks (most of them), and people who assume everyone else is checking everything before they run (very few, but they exist). I no longer run Chaos arms, and the arms I had were sold for cheap to a buddy along with a different company's adapter which did not exhibit the same design limitations as the off-the-shelf parts. The arms I do run now were a one-off (at the time), at my request because I was sick of the poly bushing bull****."
SPC-
Running SPC UCAs.
Clunking started reoccuring this morning- spent the afternoon replacing the front BP-51s with nitro-charger, No changes made to the UCA. Sounds is gone. Still waiting for a response from ARB.
Taco2Cruiser
Crazy American Off Road
All the BP engineers are in Australia, it does take time to relay messages back and forth. I'm sure you'll have no problem working with them. I ripped my lower mount apart on the rocks, so no fault to ARB but my own doing, and since the repair parts aren't available yet in the US, they are just going to switch it out for me. THAT is some serious customer service!
ARB was kind enough to agree to replace my BP-51s with the Nitrocharger set up and refund me the difference, so this does speak to their customer service.
Wish I wasn't so annoyed to have had to replace it in the first place. When it worked, it was amazing. I guess this is par for the course with racing shocks. Lesson learned.
Wish I wasn't so annoyed to have had to replace it in the first place. When it worked, it was amazing. I guess this is par for the course with racing shocks. Lesson learned.
Sheesh I hope not! Being relatively local to King, and after a couple discussions with @bjowett this is the route I'm going (along w/ Tundra conversion). At least this way I can drop the truck off if I have issues!!
Guys, listen to me. If you have the clunk just call ARB and talk to Mitch. He's aware of the issue and the BP51 is getting a valving update. I have a set of these that are on their way to me now from Australia. I've been very patient with this issue and I too changed out many parts to find the issue. Contact Mitch. tech@arbusa.com
He described it to me as a hydraulic knock. It's the engineers in Australia that have been working to find a solution. I think after I test this set and can let ARB know that indeed this took care of the clunk they will be able to help others with the same issue.
The clunk is not the O-ring. I have two "bad" shocks here and both of them have the o-rings intact. Once this is sorted out I will give much more detail but for now know that ARB is dedicated to fixing the issue and they have bent over backwards for me.
As far as temp goes, yes, it's worse when it's cold, below 35-40 degrees is when I see a major increase in clunk.
He described it to me as a hydraulic knock. It's the engineers in Australia that have been working to find a solution. I think after I test this set and can let ARB know that indeed this took care of the clunk they will be able to help others with the same issue.
The clunk is not the O-ring. I have two "bad" shocks here and both of them have the o-rings intact. Once this is sorted out I will give much more detail but for now know that ARB is dedicated to fixing the issue and they have bent over backwards for me.
As far as temp goes, yes, it's worse when it's cold, below 35-40 degrees is when I see a major increase in clunk.
so i have a set of BP-51's brand new sitting in the garage ready to go on after the bumper, is this something that affects all bp51's, is it just the front or front and rear or just rear? should i wait to get them on?
Mine it was just the passenger front for some reason.
It has not happened to all the BP51s just a small handful.
I agree it is not the o-rings. A hydraulic valving problem matches better the various observations that have accumulated on this forum. I suspect ARB is still in the trouble-shooting stage, as the replacement strut I received a few weeks ago has the knock (though the rebound compression is thus far intact).
I have replaced the passenger (right) strut three times. The same thing has happened three times.I Install the strut and it is silent and perfect. Within days it makes a little noise and then slowly the clunk gets worse and worse. Initially I thought something had come loose or a swaybar end link was going bad because that's what it sounds like.
I assume All replacements have been from existing inventory. This new set is directly from Australia, shipped by Air so cost a pretty penny.
Give me a few weeks to receive and install and I'll report back. No use speculating. Just know that ARB is standing behind their problem.
It was 10 degrees this morning, very clunky!
You guys are a patient bunch, much more patient than I, and I mean it when I say it that I appreciate those of you who are on the front lines of testing new equipment for the rest of us. That said... initially when I bought my truck I was all over the BP51s, and ARB is a company I'd love to support. But there is no way I go w/ the BPs at this point, this thread is only a small sampling that I've seen, with people having issues w/ these shocks. And I'm no expert but from what can tell this is ARBs first foray into a shock so technologically advanced as they are, and they are having issues. There are other shock companies who've been putting out products like this (read: specialize in) for years, and for me it's a safer bet, not to mention they are all domestic, and in some cases even hyper-local (to me). I don't think that having to replace a front shock 3x is acceptable, no matter how good the service was from ARB. Who's paying for the labor? The alignments? The pain in the a$$ factor of having your truck inoperable, or clunking even when operable. I think most people go w/ a standard "OME" setup because they are bomb proof, but this just isn't the case w/ the BPs. And maybe I'm just being naive that this isn't an issue w/ other "race shock" options but as of now that's my humble opinion and I'm steering clear until there's a definitive solution.
Time to join the party.
I was pulling a nail out of my passages side front tire when I noticed fluid around the base of the spring. On further inspection the shock body has developed a leak. I checked the remaining 3 shocks and they appear fine.
I wrote a brief email with photos and a new shock is on the way.
I have had the shocks on for less than a year 10 months~
I was pulling a nail out of my passages side front tire when I noticed fluid around the base of the spring. On further inspection the shock body has developed a leak. I checked the remaining 3 shocks and they appear fine.
I wrote a brief email with photos and a new shock is on the way.
I have had the shocks on for less than a year 10 months~
Taco2Cruiser
Crazy American Off Road
well, that's this forums is for. Helping others. For me it doesn't cost anything to switch stuff out, I haven't had another man touch any of my cars in over 10 years and I do my own alignments in my garage (which a digital alignment shop could never match).
ARB will get there, I remember when icon was Donahue racing, and I was blowing up shocks every few thousand miles, and I remember when king shock bodies ruptured on the reg. So they will get there.
I still stand by my comments earlier that setup is just plain easier on Icons. King and BPs have the same preload design, so it's much harder to get ride height where you want it. Icon and king have the easier comprssion and dampening adjustments. Cost goes to BPs, I'm probably the poorest guy in here, and I am willing to go through all the pain to set up the BPs properly, and that's why I went with them.
But, at the complete end of the day, when everything is setup, I still believe BPs will be the best, because they are a true bypass shock and the only one available for a stock 200. Icon, king, fox, are just internal floating piston design. It's just a lot more pain to get there than the other options out there.
But don't think any of this stuff is indestructible. All these suspension components WILL break, OEM is designed for longevity, race components are designed to win for short periods of time, customer service is what makes the difference for the long haul.
ARB will get there, I remember when icon was Donahue racing, and I was blowing up shocks every few thousand miles, and I remember when king shock bodies ruptured on the reg. So they will get there.
I still stand by my comments earlier that setup is just plain easier on Icons. King and BPs have the same preload design, so it's much harder to get ride height where you want it. Icon and king have the easier comprssion and dampening adjustments. Cost goes to BPs, I'm probably the poorest guy in here, and I am willing to go through all the pain to set up the BPs properly, and that's why I went with them.
But, at the complete end of the day, when everything is setup, I still believe BPs will be the best, because they are a true bypass shock and the only one available for a stock 200. Icon, king, fox, are just internal floating piston design. It's just a lot more pain to get there than the other options out there.
But don't think any of this stuff is indestructible. All these suspension components WILL break, OEM is designed for longevity, race components are designed to win for short periods of time, customer service is what makes the difference for the long haul.
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sleeoffroad
Supporting Vendor
These shocks are bypass shocks. There is no other company that does a bypass shock for the 200 as far as I know. There are remote reservoir shocks with adjusters on the compression side at the reservoir, but not bypass shocks.
sleeoffroad
Supporting Vendor
As for leaking, some leaking / misting is normal. Here is a good article on Gabiel shocks in terms of what is allowable leaking
http://gabriel.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/TECH-_01_09.pdf
Here is a chart from Bilstein
So just because there is some oil on the outside of the shock does not mean it is defective. It is pretty normal on all shocks to have some oil on the outside.
http://gabriel.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/TECH-_01_09.pdf
Here is a chart from Bilstein
So just because there is some oil on the outside of the shock does not mean it is defective. It is pretty normal on all shocks to have some oil on the outside.
I was under the assumption that both King and Fox have bypass shocks for the 200, could be mistaken, wouldn't be the first or last time! But either way, if this is a new technology as you're suggesting problems will exist equally with any of them.
