Old Bessie's Build Thread (1 Viewer)

[UGA2018]

I bought some foil tape tonight and tried to wrap it around the leak on that corrugated pipe under the EGR. It was hard to get it to seal because of the corrugations. I did the best I could but I'm pretty sure it didn't seal off the leak. I listened again with the tube in my ear and the other end near the pipe and still heard some hissing.

I also got under the truck again and looked up at the J pipe coming off of the exhaust manifold and into the EGR cooler. That's the one that I have a significant gasket leak with. It's in the picture attached with the circle around it. There was some black soot above the gasket area which would be consistent with an exhaust leak there. I don't think that is new since that pipe has been rattling since I got the truck so I don't think that leak is what is causing the vacuum problems.

At this point I am down to one of three problems that I am suspicious of..

1. EGR is bad (is there a way to quickly delete it to test if that makes the vacuum leak go away?)
2. The holes in the corrugated pipe are causing the problem
3. The J pipe is losing vacuum at the gasket/seal to the manifold

Or.... something else that I am stumped to figure out.

Any of you Cruiserheads out there have some good ideas for me to dig into? @NeverGiveUpYota @CaptClose @Landpimp @mwebfj60. @Spike Strip

Any help is appreciated!

Thanks,

 

[CaptClose]

1. No way to "quickly" delete the pipe. You need either a block off plate or cut, pinch, and weld the pipe closed. You're on the road to a desmog now.

2. Yes, the holes are a problem, but maybe not the only problem.

3. That j-pipe is on the exhaust side and not the intake. It's more of an exhaust leak right now. It's going to be deleted when you desmog anyway. So don't worry.

Bonus tip: Doctor @OSS is the absolute guru at this stuff and is very generous with his time and knowledge. Maybe he can chime in with some thoughts.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

I have an exhaust EGR gasket new in the package from SOR if you need it Mike. I installed a block off plate so its unusable to me. LMK and I'll put it in an envelope to you tmrw, mail gets picked up about noon. I also have my old pipe which was pinched and welded. If you chose to go that route you could have it and make it better. I think mine might have sucked some cuz the pinched end was always gummy. Now that I look too at the pix the hardline end that goes to the PCV is gunked up with carbon and would need to be torched to get the stuff out. I tried days worth of a carb chem dip and it did nothing.
I agree with Ryan too... All that wouldn't necessarily cause a vac leak... it would be more of an exhaust leak.
Have you taken a new bottle of carb spray to the carb base and all along the manifold gasket? Being smogged I get the frustrating factor in diagnosing problems. Whenever I see all you folks pictures I am amazing you can sort any leak out with all that excess stuff in the way. When my truck is all together there is so much space its amazing.

 

[OSS]

You've gotta rule out whether the EGR valve piston is fully seating or not. Although the vacuum leak happened after the valve adjustment, that doesn't guarantee that the two events are related. Mayhem can happen at any time. Sometimes random non related events can happen one after the other. Something to keep in mind as a possibility.

My old EGR valve would get stuck open all the time after driving for a while. It would get real hot & jamb. Not fully closing at idle. But when mine would jamb open, it would create a BIG vacuum leak at idle & barely idle at all. Sputter.

The way I would reseat it shut (and I had to do this countless times on the side of the road) is I'd connect a 16" long piece (approx) of vacuum hose to the top of the EGR valve, and while the engine was sputtering, with choke pulled to keep it running, I'd blow as hard as I could on the hose with my mouth until my cheeks felt like they would explode. Then (it seemed) right before I couldn't take the pressure on my cheeks any more, blowing as hard as I could, the EGR valve would suddenly snap shut with a loud SNAP! & the engine would race back to life. Smooth as a kitty's ear.

Personally, I never got my EGR valve to reseat when it was stuck open by tapping on it with anything.

Also the rusting EGR cooler can spit rust chunks into the EGR valve & the little rust rocks can get jammed in the valve permanently, preventing the valve from closing all the way. That's happened to me too.

So although your vacuum leak may not be EGR related, you've got to rule it out as a possibility if the problem persists...because it IS a possibility.

The only real way to be absolutely certain that the EGR valve is functioning properly & doesn't have crap jamming it open is to remove the valve to test & inspect it.

Yes, yes. It's a royal pain to remove if it hasn't been removed in over a decade, but if your vacuum leak persists, after checking out all other (easy) possibilities, just know that a stuck or dirty EGR valve will cause a vacuum leak.

 

[UGA2018]

I have an exhaust EGR gasket new in the package from SOR if you need it Mike. I installed a block off plate so its unusable to me. LMK and I'll put it in an envelope to you tmrw, mail gets picked up about noon. I also have my old pipe which was pinched and welded. If you chose to go that route you could have it and make it better. I think mine might have sucked some cuz the pinched end was always gummy. Now that I look too at the pix the hardline end that goes to the PCV is gunked up with carbon and would need to be torched to get the stuff out. I tried days worth of a carb chem dip and it did nothing.
I agree with Ryan too... All that wouldn't necessarily cause a vac leak... it would be more of an exhaust leak.
Have you taken a new bottle of carb spray to the carb base and all along the manifold gasket? Being smogged I get the frustrating factor in diagnosing problems. Whenever I see all you folks pictures I am amazing you can sort any leak out with all that excess stuff in the way. When my truck is all together there is so much space its amazing.

@NeverGiveUpYota I really appreciate the offer on those parts. I think if I get to the bottom of this and determine these leaks are causing the vacuum problems then I'll probably just desmog versus fix them. Getting that unneeded crap out of the way and having more room would be awesome. And eleminating potential vacuum issues in the future. If I change my mind I'll let you know. Thank you again for the advice and offer!

 

[UGA2018]

You've gotta rule out whether the EGR valve piston is fully seating or not. Although the vacuum leak happened after the valve adjustment, that doesn't guarantee that the two events are related. Mayhem can happen at any time. Sometimes random non related events can happen one after the other. Something to keep in mind as a possibility.

My old EGR valve would get stuck open all the time after driving for a while. It would get real hot & jamb. Not fully closing at idle. But when mine would jamb open, it would create a BIG vacuum leak at idle & barely idle at all. Sputter.

The way I would reseat it shut (and I had to do this countless times on the side of the road) is I'd connect a 16" long piece (approx) of vacuum hose to the top of the EGR valve, and while the engine was sputtering, with choke pulled to keep it running, I'd blow as hard as I could on the hose with my mouth until my cheeks felt like they would explode. Then (it seemed) right before I couldn't take the pressure on my cheeks any more, blowing as hard as I could, the EGR valve would suddenly snap shut with a loud SNAP! & the engine would race back to life. Smooth as a kitty's ear.

Personally, I never got my EGR valve to reseat when it was stuck open by tapping on it with anything.

Also the rusting EGR cooler can spit rust chunks into the EGR valve & the little rust rocks can get jammed in the valve permanently, preventing the valve from closing all the way. That's happened to me too.

So although your vacuum leak may not be EGR related, you've got to rule it out as a possibility if the problem persists...because it IS a possibility.

The only real way to be absolutely certain that the EGR valve is functioning properly & doesn't have crap jamming it open is to remove the valve to test & inspect it.

Yes, yes. It's a royal pain to remove if it hasn't been removed in over a decade, but if your vacuum leak persists, after checking out all other (easy) possibilities, just know that a stuck or dirty EGR valve will cause a vacuum leak.

@OSS This is great advice here! Thank you. I'll try to to blow on that EGR until my face almost blows up and see if that makes a difference. Regardless I think I'm approaching the day quicker than I thought that the EGR and other smog equipment is going. I'll keep MUD posted on the progress here and again appreciate the intel!

 

[UGA2018]

Well... I blew to I was green in the face @OSS and still nothing. I didn't hear anything with the EGR so maybe that isn't the problem or maybe it is still stuck. On to the next plan. Thanks again!

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

I ran a search for past threads on brake booster troubleshooting:

Brake booster check valve ??'s

Brake booster ??'s

Should Brake Booster Hold Vac. W/Mightyvac?

Brake Booster Question

sounds like a quick test on the brake pedal will tell you alot about how the brake boost system is working (or not).
Also seems that the check valve on the brake booster is more often than not the culprit for vac leaks.

You probably already saw this thread on Vac in general, but here it is:

More Vacuum Stuff... Search already done

From a thread in 2014. Its about vac leaks... Thought it might help.

 

[UGA2018]

From a thread in 2014. Its about vac leaks... Thought it might help.

Thanks @NeverGiveUpYota ! Last night I decided to sit down and read your build thread from the top. I've read bits and pieces but never got through it all. After 1.5 hours I only made it to page 7!

I have to say that I am impressed. In those 7 pages you have done a ton. Looking forward to seeing the rest. Thanks again for your help.

 

[UGA2018]

You've gotta rule out whether the EGR valve piston is fully seating or not. Although the vacuum leak happened after the valve adjustment, that doesn't guarantee that the two events are related. Mayhem can happen at any time. Sometimes random non related events can happen one after the other. Something to keep in mind as a possibility.

My old EGR valve would get stuck open all the time after driving for a while. It would get real hot & jamb. Not fully closing at idle. But when mine would jamb open, it would create a BIG vacuum leak at idle & barely idle at all. Sputter.

The way I would reseat it shut (and I had to do this countless times on the side of the road) is I'd connect a 16" long piece (approx) of vacuum hose to the top of the EGR valve, and while the engine was sputtering, with choke pulled to keep it running, I'd blow as hard as I could on the hose with my mouth until my cheeks felt like they would explode. Then (it seemed) right before I couldn't take the pressure on my cheeks any more, blowing as hard as I could, the EGR valve would suddenly snap shut with a loud SNAP! & the engine would race back to life. Smooth as a kitty's ear.

Personally, I never got my EGR valve to reseat when it was stuck open by tapping on it with anything.

Also the rusting EGR cooler can spit rust chunks into the EGR valve & the little rust rocks can get jammed in the valve permanently, preventing the valve from closing all the way. That's happened to me too.

So although your vacuum leak may not be EGR related, you've got to rule it out as a possibility if the problem persists...because it IS a possibility.

The only real way to be absolutely certain that the EGR valve is functioning properly & doesn't have crap jamming it open is to remove the valve to test & inspect it.

Yes, yes. It's a royal pain to remove if it hasn't been removed in over a decade, but if your vacuum leak persists, after checking out all other (easy) possibilities, just know that a stuck or dirty EGR valve will cause a vacuum leak.

@OSS I'm reading your post again and thinking about next steps. Since the blow test didn't seem to pop the EGR lose I thought I should pull it out and test it more. Question for you... after getting the EGR out is it pretty obvious how to take it apart and check to see if it is dirty inside and if the diaphragm is working? thanks for your help!

 

[Landpimp]

You can bypass the egr and disable it.

Egr cooler pipe is leaking but thats not the cause of you vacuume leak.

 

[Landpimp]

Where is the vacuume guage hooked up to? It could be its not showing what it really is pulling if hooked up wrong.

 

[Landpimp]

Also, have you adjusted the idle? If you mess with timing or valve adjustment, the idle will change and need to be adjusted

 

[UGA2018]

Where is the vacuume guage hooked up to? It could be its not showing what it really is pulling if hooked up wrong.

I did the vacuum test off of the little opening on the brake booster. I also did it off of the t line that comes off of the PCV and goes up to the HIC on the air housing unit. Both places read about the the same.

I did a timing adjustment before the valve adjustment and I did adjust idle after that because it dropped some. I didn't after the valve adjustment but I do tend to think this is truly a vacuum leak. The gauge says it and it is really struggling along.

 

[UGA2018]

You can bypass the egr and disable it.

Egr cooler pipe is leaking but thats not the cause of you vacuume leak.

Do tell how please! I have searched all over and can't find any info that shows how to temporarily bypass or disable the EGR. Of course if I desmog it will but if I can temporarily disable it I think that will help me know if the leak is from the EGR or not. If it is from the EGR then I go ahead with my desmog.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Landpimp]

From memory

Remove the vac line that goes to egr, cap the nipple(can use old vac line with a golf tee(bb, screw or whatever) in the end. Cap or plug the other end of line where it comes from the egr modulator.

Plug the larger hose that goes to egr valve (comes from bottom of egr modulator) same on egr valve.

Basicly, you want all lines to egr capped or pluged(same with other end).. do not try to remove the egr valve itself.

You may get some pinging after, if that makes things better, you can adjust the timing and/or run premium gas to compensate.

I use the vac line that goes to the AC VSV to hook up my vac guage., if I recall it goes back to the gas filter(it's not the same as a fuel filter, it's just what's it's called) on the manifold. I suppose it's possible the filter is gummed up, I think there is some mesh type filter in it...but may be wrong

 

[UGA2018]

From memory

Remove the vac line that goes to egr, cap the nipple(can use old vac line with a golf tee(bb, screw or whatever) in the end. Cap or plug the other end of line where it comes from the egr modulator.

Plug the larger hose that goes to egr valve (comes from bottom of egr modulator) same on egr valve.

Basicly, you want all lines to egr capped or pluged(same with other end).. do not try to remove the egr valve itself.

You may get some pinging after, if that makes things better, you can adjust the timing and/or run premium gas to compensate.

I use the vac line that goes to the AC VSV to hook up my vac guage., if I recall it goes back to the gas filter(it's not the same as a fuel filter, it's just what's it's called) on the manifold. I suppose it's possible the filter is gummed up, I think there is some mesh type filter in it...but may be wrong

Thank you! I'll give this a try and let you know what happens!

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Thank you! I'll give this a try and let you know what happens!

So how'd this affect the idle? Did disconnecting the egr from the equation help at all?

 

[UGA2018]

So how'd this affect the idle? Did disconnecting the egr from the equation help at all?

Unfortunately I am out of town now so it will have to wait until I get back home. I'll keep you posted!

 

[UGA2018]

After being out of town for what has seemed like eternity I have decided to move ahead with my desmog. The JimC kit is here along with the McMaster Carr vacuum lines. Since I will have all of this pulled apart I decided to pull the manifold, have it resurfaced and put a new gasket on.

I have to believe that with the desmoging and shoring up the manifold I will solve my vacuum leak. And... all of this stuff needed to be done anyway.

I sprayed everything I could get to today with PB Blaster. I'll hit it again tomorrow and then start the process of pulling things off. I'll try to get a lot of pictures for others that may go through this process.

Oh.... One more thing. I am following the "How to desmog a JF60" that Borick created. Many thanks @Borick! I think I have read it and the FSM 150 times. It's all starting to make sense.