Oil pan impaled by floor jack saddle

[890man]

Oven cleaner works great on steel, never tried it on aluminum. You could just try it on the cracked one and see how it works. This stuff makes it easy. No need to get the brand name stuff either, just go for the two dollar cans.

 

[e9999]

I use jack/jackstands like rhrary, lift one side, place the jackstand, lift the other side, place the jackstand. I have done this many times, and if you do it slow and careful it is a safe way to go. I don't like trying to jack the whole font end up at once. With the offset pumpkin, it would never be balanced.

I'm not convinced that is much safer than lifting off the pumpkin. I've done the latter many times without any hint of problem. OTOH, you put one side on a stand and then lift the other side, there is a chance the first stand may move if not very big and stable, no?

 

[firetruck41]

I'm not convinced that is much safer than lifting off the pumpkin. I've done the latter many times without any hint of problem. OTOH, you put one side on a stand and then lift the other side, there is a chance the first stand may move if not very big and stable, no?

Never a problem with my 6 ton jackstands... maybe a problem with undersized stands? I can never lift high enough from the pumpkin, seems I'm lucky to get the low side off the ground doing it this way. I wouldn't feel very comfortable lowering it onto two jackstands at the nearly the same time either. I'd rather get one rock solid jackstand, then another. There is more than one way to skin a cat though, I try to make sure that the jackstand is fully supporting it's load, that it is resting solidly on the ground, and never stick anything under the vehicle that matters (ie. body parts), until the jackstands are set. I also block the rear tires.

 

[Kernal]

firetruck: yes, that cross bar lift adaptor won't fit, just was thinking outside the box to see if that adaptor could be modified to work. I started once to lift it under the pumpkin but saw that it went up in the air uneven so stopped, didn't think of the alternating jack stand placement method.

 

[lacruiser]

I also leave the jack in place, cinched up to the pumpkin, handle locked tight. As a 3rd "leg". Just in case.

After reading that thread on here "the bitch tried to kill me" about a jack stand failure, I'm EXTRA cautious about making sure the load is secure and stable.

I also will try and shake the vehicle after it's sitting on the jack stands, just to make sure it's not ready to topple off.

BTW, I lift from the pumpkin. I've got a 2.5" OME lift and 33's, it lifts high enough to get my jack stands under both ends of the axle.

A little story: I bought my Toyo M/T's from the wholesale division of 4wheelparts, in Compton, CA. They would install/balance the tires on my wheels for free, but wouldn't remove them from the truck. so I brought my 4 stands and jack down there and did it in their parking lot. the truck was on a VERY slight incline, and on all 4 jack stands, no wheels/tires on it. We're talking only a few degrees at most, and the concrete was fairly smooth. It actually slid down the hill a little bit while up on the 4 stands. That freaked me out. I thought one of the stands might catch on something and trip, but it didn't. The whole truck just slid about 8 inches or so, then stopped. I felt a lot better once I got those shoes back on there! I'll never do that again.

 

[e9999]

I also leave the jack in place, cinched up to the pumpkin, handle locked tight. As a 3rd "leg". Just in case.

After reading that thread on here "the bitch tried to kill me" about a jack stand failure, I'm EXTRA cautious about making sure the load is secure and stable.

I also will try and shake the vehicle after it's sitting on the jack stands, just to make sure it's not ready to topple off.

BTW, I lift from the pumpkin. I've got a 2.5" OME lift and 33's, it lifts high enough to get my jack stands under both ends of the axle.

A little story: I bought my Toyo M/T's from the wholesale division of 4wheelparts, in Compton, CA. They would install/balance the tires on my wheels for free, but wouldn't remove them from the truck. so I brought my 4 stands and jack down there and did it in their parking lot. the truck was on a VERY slight incline, and on all 4 jack stands, no wheels/tires on it. We're talking only a few degrees at most, and the concrete was fairly smooth. It actually slid down the hill a little bit while up on the 4 stands. That freaked me out. I thought one of the stands might catch on something and trip, but it didn't. The whole truck just slid about 8 inches or so, then stopped. I felt a lot better once I got those shoes back on there! I'll never do that again.

I also have no problem lifting both tires off the ground with the pumpkin. One is more than the other but both clear. Depends on the jack height capacity obviously.


About your story, this being Compton, I'm sure nobody paid attention to a truck on 4 blocks without wheels, right...?

 

[Truckasaurus]

Lifting point on the pumpkin

Per the FSM IN-9 for the '97 LX450, page IN-9, under the front or rear differential is the jack position...stands on the frame...but I'd use the suspension pickup points on the axle or the frame, too (not yet having done so, so I don't know if there's collective wisdom pro/con).

 

[rhyary]

Kernal, we all need to thank you for sharing this experience vs. hiding in the corner.
This is really good as collective wisdom.
I had the 3 ton jacks and added 2 6 tons when I started my big job in Oct.
I since bought two more 6 ton jacks.

Had I read this thread, and the thread on the failing jack that ran about a month ago, I would have never started the job with the 3 ton jacks. Putting the rig on 6 ton stands look pretty steady to me.

I also never knew that a six ton stand is per pair, not each.

You learn something everyday on this board, and mainly because people here are willing to share successes AND failures.

So Kernal, sorry to hear about your misfortune, but so many thanks for sharing.

 

[Rookie2]

The hardest part about getting the upper pan off, is getting the rig and suspension in the right configuration to get the pan out. You might do a search with some key words like "upper oil pan" and my username. I had a post after doing mine a few years back that had some info on how to get the rig setup right to get the pan out. May have been a couple of other helpful do's and not to do's in there as well.


Rookie2

 

[Kernal]

Rookie2: thanks, I'm gonna let the dealer do this one, too busy now and too freakin cold outside and looks like my insurance will pick up the tab.

I need to finish cleaning the pan (should I start a new thread?); there is a spray booth I can use nearby that is already loaded with glass beads, is that good to use to clean up the cast aluminum? Anything to avoid hitting like the baffles, pick-up pipe, machined sealing edge, bolts holes with left over FIPG?? Or, should I just remove the baffles and pipe before I blast it?

 

[PoorHouse]

Thanks for sharing the story, that is some scary business.

Glad to see the happy ending with the insurance company. You've saved them a bunch of money by finding the used pan. I might wait to divulge that to them until you hear what they are going to be willing to pay and what the shop wants for the job.

 

[lacruiser]

I also never knew that a six ton stand is per pair, not each.

Well, that is sometimes true, sometimes not. It's really quite confusing. Some manufacturers rate them individually, some in pairs.

Unfortunately, there is no standard, so unless you ask the manufacturer direct, or peruse their literature carefully, you won't know which spec it is.

I was at SEMA a couple months back, there was a company selling some pretty nice, beefy jack stands, and I asked that question. The sales drone had to get on the phone to their headquarters to ask the question of one of the engineers. Answer for that particular brand: the spec was for "each" stand.

Confusing, for sure. There should be a standard.

 

[Kernal]

PoorHouse: One dealer wanted about $550 and another $650 for labor, supplies, taxes; all based on ~ 5.3 book hours for the job. The dealer price on the upper pan part was about $800 and the lower pan part about $175 with taxes. If I hadn't found the replacement pan at the salvage yard I would've gone with CDan for sure.

 

[lacruiser]

Rookie2: thanks, I'm gonna let the dealer do this one, too busy now and too freakin cold outside and looks like my insurance will pick up the tab.

I need to finish cleaning the pan (should I start a new thread?); there is a spray booth I can use nearby that is already loaded with glass beads, is that good to use to clean up the cast aluminum? Anything to avoid hitting like the baffles, pick-up pipe, machined sealing edge, bolts holes with left over FIPG?? Or, should I just remove the baffles and pipe before I blast it?

Kernal, you're overthinking this.

Take it to a machine shop and let them clean it up for you. Someone said you've got to be careful about dipping aluminum parts into a hot tank and suggested not doing it.

Cylinder heads are rebuilt all day long at machine shops, most of them these days are aluminum, and I've yet to hear of any problems cleaning them up before and after machining them. It's simply not an issue. They dip it and it comes out like the day it was made. End of story. Perhaps they have different tanks for iron vs aluminum, I don't know.

Just ask around for a referral to a good machine shop, maybe ask the dealer you've chosen to do the work. Or ask a local trusted mechanic which shop he uses.

Also, re my earlier comment about checking the rod bearings. I've been inside many engines, and when they get a few miles on them, there is definitely some wear going on there. These bearings take a pounding. Since they're literally right there, fully exposed, why not at least inspect them? If the mechanic would take down all 6 for a quick look-see (we're talking all of 12 bolts here), and maybe charge you an hours labor to do so, why not? If you found one that was starting to go, wouldn't you much rather know about it now, rather than if/when it was to start knocking 25,000 miles further along? If you catch a weak bearing before it lets go, you will prevent damage to the crankshaft, and you'll get more years out if it. The lead in your oil analysis is most likely coming from the bearings.

There have been more than one instance of these 1FZ-FE engines developing a rod knock, so they are not immune.

I don't know, maybe I'm a bit too anal about this, but I would think not checking them would be like doing a clutch job without changing the pilot bearing. Some people do that, but come to regret it when the damn thing seizes up a year later.

It's your call.

 

[Rookie2]

Yeh, I don't know about that blasting it deal. Sounds abrasive. You want to keep the mating surface as smooth as possible otherwise more potential for leaks. I sprayed my edges with gasket remover then put the whole thing in a parts washer and scrubbed it up. Got it plenty clean enough.

 

[Kernal]

lacruiser; I'll ask the mechanics if they can do this. I agree, if done correctly now would be the time to do it, but if not put back together correctly I could have a problem sooner. All depends on who's standing underneath the vehicle doing the work.

 

[freshspecbluegt]

If the insurance is covering it and its being done at the dealer I would expect they are going to use new parts, why are you still worried about cleaning up the salvage yard pans? I didn't think most dealers would use used parts, but I've never tried to hand them a used part for a repair either.

Ross

 

[PoorHouse]

PoorHouse: One dealer wanted about $550 and another $650 for labor, supplies, taxes; all based on ~ 5.3 book hours for the job. The dealer price on the upper pan part was about $800 and the lower pan part about $175 with taxes. If I hadn't found the replacement pan at the salvage yard I would've gone with CDan for sure.

Have you confirmed your insurance will pay that? Sometimes you run into issues with what hourly labor rate insurance wants to pay v.s. what the shop charges. Probably not a big deal on a 5.3 hr. repair but worth checking.

Ross makes a good point re dealer using the parts you found, have you confirmed they are OK with that?

I'm a little confused what is needed to RR the upper pan. Does the engine come out or just get free of the mounts? If its coming out or even part way out might be a good time to do the PHH, belts, etc. Also interesting points on the bearings. Is this a shop you trust?

Another point, if the shop will use the parts you found and if the insurance company will pay for OEM, that leaves $500 or so you any additional work.

 

[Kernal]

I asked the shop if they would use the salvage yard pan, they said yes as long as it checks out OK; got it before I learned insurance would cover the repairs. As long as it is a good pan might as well use it. Talked to a mechanic with 20 years experience who might be doing the work, he mentioned the different numbers on the different thicknesses of bearings, but was sorta vague about how he determines what is a bad bearing and how he decides what thickness to put back in, maybe more an art than science?? IDK. From my reading here on mud to RR the main pan you take the nuts off the motor mounts, remove the top radiator hose, remove the air intake hose, remove battery, battery tray, the fan and fan shroud, and then carefully raise the engine about 3-4 inches. Not sure about what else needs to be done. I've done the PHH but guess that could be checked while under there.

Also found a small custom engine machine shop that will dismantle the baffles and pick-up pipe inside the new/old aluminum pan and then bead blast the pan, wash it in some sort of automatic engine washer with a cleaner safe for aluminum, then do a final hand wash/rinse, all for $40. That guy seemed really sharp. I'll post those photos once it's done.

Edit: looked at the inside bottom of the lower pan (hadn't really cleaned that yet separately) and found lots of glittering specks of metal stuck on the inside surfaces, same specks buried deep inside a leftover clump of crusty oil varnish stuck on the oil level sensor bracket; probably the reason the donor rig ended up in a salvage yard. This is probably another good reason to take the baffles and pick-up pipe apart and completely clean the pan professionally, and to use one of CDans special oil filters after a job like this . If the mechanics hesitate at all about this pan will see if insurance will pay for a new one.

 

[Pin_Head]

he mentioned the different numbers on the different thicknesses of bearings, but was sorta vague about how he determines what is a bad bearing and how he decides what thickness to put back in, maybe more an art than science?? IDK. .

You measure the clearance of the existing bearing with plastigauge and if it is out of spec, you replace it with an oversize bearing that would put it in spec, just like it says in the FSM.