Oil pan impaled by floor jack saddle

[Kernal]

Might as well ask now if I have to go that route, anyone know the major steps to removing the main pan? Unbolt the motor mounts and lift the engine 4 inches then start removing pan bolts? Remove the hood?? I'll do a search and read my FSM in the meantime.

Edit: found some old posts by CDan on what needs to be done. I may have access to a lift; is there a method to raise the engine a few inches first (?engine bar) then lift the whole rig so the main pan can be RR'd while standing?

 

[Riley]

Pardon the semi hyjack but I'm having trouble understanding this "saddle thing" you speak (and show pictures) of. This is a small height extender that sits on your floor jack?

I've never seen this before (not saying much) but my jack just has a wide 3 inch? cup that usually gets positioned under the axle or pumpkin. Only asking to others might learn from this (or I can make sure it never happens to me).

Sorry to hear of your woes

 

[Clutchee]

Got to ask...... by the way the third picture looks where you say its "cracked" it looks to me like the old sealer was squeezed out & cracked

Just looks that way to me......


Again you could see this better by taking the lower pan off......

If I'm wrong..... you buy a lower & upper pan..... if I'm right you buy just the lower pan

 

[PHIL O]

whew, what a jacksident here. look at it from the bright side. at least it wasnt you that the rig sat on. remove the pan and investigate further

 

[Kernal]

Riley: my floor jack is an older Allied 3 1/2ton, it came with two saddles which are interchangable; the standard 5 inch low pancake saddle and an "SUV Adaptor" saddle, which is only 3 inches in diameter but 4 inches taller than the flat saddle. Purpose is to help get a taller rig higher in the air. That is the object stuck in the pan.

The jack was part of the reason it slipped; it lets down quickly if you are not careful with the release, then having a smaller saddle under the flat axle housing. I think I tightened the release handle when I saw rig start to drop; the sudden stop may have been what caused the saddle to slip. Or another way to look at it, the rig coming down in an arc caused the jack to shoot out towards the rear of the rig.

Clutchee: If you look closely at the photo you copied, to the left of the one pan bolt you can see the cracks in the aluminum lip of the main pan that the lower pan bolts to. Some of the force was transmitted up the lower pan to the main pan. Easier to see and feel when underneath the truck.

I talked to one mechanic this morning, he says that he can weld aluminum if I have the piece.

Anyone out there know about welding aluminum?

 

[cruiserdan]

A new upper pan is a little north of 500 bucks wholesale.

 

[lacruiser]

Riley: my floor jack is an older Allied 3 1/2ton, it came with two saddles which are interchangable; the standard 5 inch low pancake saddle and an "SUV Adaptor" saddle, which is only 3 inches in diameter but 4 inches taller than the flat saddle. Purpose is to help get a taller rig higher in the air. That is the object stuck in the pan.

The jack was part of the reason it slipped; it lets down quickly if you are not careful with the release, then having a smaller saddle under the flat axle housing. I think I tightened the release handle when I saw rig start to drop; the sudden stop may have been what caused the saddle to slip. Or another way to look at it, the rig coming down in an arc caused the jack to shoot out towards the rear of the rig.

Clutchee: If you look closely at the photo you copied, to the left of the one pan bolt you can see the cracks in the aluminum lip of the main pan that the lower pan bolts to. Some of the force was transmitted up the lower pan to the main pan. Easier to see and feel when underneath the truck.

I talked to one mechanic this morning, he says that he can weld aluminum if I have the piece.

Anyone out there know about welding aluminum?

Yeah, I was going to suggest that. They weld aluminum all the time when encountering corrosion on cylinder heads.

You can probably get that pan welded for under $50, welded from the back side so the "pan-to-pan" surface isn't really affected. If you run a welding bead along that surface, then you've got to smooth that side down. I guess that's not the end of the world, but I'd talk with my welder about just doing it from the back side if possible. FIPG will fill in any gaps.

Or if he can machine it smooth for you, go for it on the front side as well.

Gotta be WAY cheaper than a new one, and it will be as good as new.

Find a good welder in the area and have it looked at.

Then you can locate a good used pan and pickup tube, you'll be out of there for under $200 I think, plus your labor.

Seriously, get another jack, or get yours rebuilt, it's a major hazard the way it is.

I had to do an emergency pan removal in the backroads of Alaska years ago. We had only the bumper jack. (put a hole in it driving over a rock)

Ended up cutting down a small tree, using about a 2-foot long section of trunk placed on the front of the engine (on the crank pulley), took the bolts off the engine mounts, then lowered the car a bit. It pushed the engine up (relative to the frame) and I was able to clear the crossmember and remove the pan.

You could do something similar using a good high-quality jack stand (one of the tall ones) if no other choice. A better alternative would be to use an engine hoist to lift the engine.

If you don't mind laying on your back to do this, it can all be done under the truck. If you've got access to the lift, obviously go that way.

good luck.

 

[Kernal]

I found what they said was a complete main pan and lower pan at a Salvage yard, going to look at it now, $100. Good deal if it is complete and the correct year; the guy described it as a cast aluminum pan attached to a steel pan. Is there any way for me to tell it is the correct part? 1996-97 FZJ-80's had two sensors, correct; an oil level sensor on the DS side of the pan and another on the front bottom? Anything else to look for? If that doesn't pan out I'll go the welding route; just can't afford a new pan now.

Yeah, now I wish I had bought that $500 dollar professional floor jack; saw one model on line (forget the brand) that lets the vehicle down at a steady rate no matter how you release the handle. I'm thinking about how to fabricate a better saddle, maybe something with vertical wings to prevent the saddle from slipping off the axle housing so easily??

 

[tirewater]

Something not yet addressed & could've changed the outcome of the situation. Always slightly loosen lug nuts prior to jacking your vehicle up. The temptation is there to both loosen & tighten lug-nuts while on a jack or jack stands - but it's usually not worth the risks.

My addition 2 cents - personally I'd just get the replacement parts from a used engine. Either buy a used engine or buy the oil pan replacement parts used. In my experience, for a few dollars more than a used part you can buy an entire used engine and part that out as needed. Or you can get lucky and a mud member will generously provide the parts for you at an economical price.

 

[e9999]

this saddle problem thing is not obvious to me. I never had any indication that any of my jacks were at risk of slipping if put in a good place. I have a smallish "saddle", about 4" across or so, without big ears. Never slipped. Sometimes I'll put on a chunk of tire sidewall as padding / antislip device.

Maybe it's more where you put it and how you use it than the design of the saddle itself? If so, it'd be safer to focus on the former?

 

[Kernal]

e9999: Agree with your statement, I was in a hurry and may not have centered the saddle properly, and that was compounded by the rapid release of the jack then the rapid stop (caused by me tightening the release lever). If I hadn't done anything the worse thing that would've happened is the bump stops might have bottomed out. For piece of mind and to (prevent me from doing this again) I would like to find someone who can weld something to my saddle that would be specific for the front axle housing of an 80. As you know if you don't get close to the center of the housing one side will go higher than the other, but at the center the housing is curved as it starts down toward the pumpkin. If I'm missing something as to how it should be lifted and correct placement of the saddle, please let me know, comments welcome.

 

[rhyary]

I don't understand this as well. The issue is not that "only" the oil pan got a hole in it.
The main issue is that a piece of metal flew as uncontrollable projectile. Luckily it was an oil pan and not someone leg or head. But anyway...

During October I did front and rear axle rebuilt job, e-brake, calipers and e-lockers. I jacked up my truck on and off the jack stands many times. I am trying to understand how I would create a situation that a jack, or part of jack will fly off and hit something.

Here is what I did:

Putting truck on stands:
1. Jack the pumpkin up, install a jack stand under short axle, release jack.
2. Move toward the long side, jack up by the axle, put a jack stand under axle near the wheel side, release lifting jack.

Removing stands from under the car:
1. Jack pumpkin, remove stand from under the short axle.
2. Jack axle on the long side, remove jack from under the truck.

Now I don't really understand why would a jack be under the truck when I let go of the lifting jack. Even if the jack rapidly go down, how would that effect the stand?

Is the issue the fact that you forgot to remove the stand, or that the stand had some kind of function being under the truck but it failed?

 

[80t0ylc]

Ouch! That quite a photo. ........ I have a small dent in mine from a trail (happened same time I bent my tie rod).

Kernal,
I got under my rig to try and understand the path that the floor jack took when it slid off your axle and mangled your oil pan. I just don't see how it jumped your tie rod to reach that part of the oil pan - the better part of a foot or more, in distance. Maybe it bounced off the tie rod in which case you may have a bent tie rod, too. I hope not, after all the troubles you've seen.

Which brings up a good point. I'm sure you've learned and seen, first hand, the forces involved lifting and getting under our rigs. Mistakes and accidents happen all the time. But, here's a place where it could be fatal. Shortcuts and saving a buck might just cost your life or someone that's helping you.

......, if I was you, (after buying and installing the necessary parts) would be to throw that floor jack away......

Best advice yet! Actually, if I was you, I'd throw it away and not use it again.

 

[Kernal]

rhyary; the floor jack was shot rearward forcefully as the vehicle came down on it; no parts flew off the floor jack and nothing was left under the vehicle before I started to let it down. The part that looks like a steel rod shown in the photos above that is sticking in the lower oil pan is the removable (not fixed) SUV saddle adaptor. After the mishap I lowered the floor jack the rest of the way down, leaving the long saddle stuck in the pan. I understand your method of jacking, but aren't you're leaving one side unsupported when you reposition the floor jack? I'm obviously not the expert on this subject but seems like that method would put a lot of torque on the frame (or something)??

80t0ylc: Agree totally about getting a new jack, I had used this one before and it did work, just had to be very careful to release it very slowly. I'll share this, after I got the four (4) 12 ton double locking jack stands out from under the rig, two on the frame and two on the axle and was getting ready to let it down, I really did not feel good about it, like Oh crap, this thing is way up in the air, then bang. I'll look at the rod, it may have skipped off it.

Good news: went to a salvage yard and found both upper and lower pans together with good pick up tube and even the oil level sensor appears intact; got both for $107.50 out the door. The guy behind the desk said it was the last part they had left from a 1997 FZJ-80 they sent to the crusher four years ago.
Just have to clean it up real well but so far it looks good.

 

[lacruiser]

rhyary; the floor jack was shot rearward forcefully as the vehicle came down on it; no parts flew off the floor jack and nothing was left under the vehicle before I started to let it down. The part that looks like a steel rod shown in the photos above that is sticking in the lower oil pan is the removable (not fixed) SUV saddle adaptor. After the mishap I lowered the floor jack the rest of the way down, leaving the long saddle stuck in the pan. I understand your method of jacking, but aren't you're leaving one side unsupported when you reposition the floor jack? I'm obviously not the expert on this subject but seems like that method would put a lot of torque on the frame (or something)??

80t0ylc: Agree totally about getting a new jack, I had used this one before and it did work, just had to be very careful to release it very slowly. I'll share this, after I got the four (4) 12 ton double locking jack stands out from under the rig, two on the frame and two on the axle and was getting ready to let it down, I really did not feel good about it, like Oh crap, this thing is way up in the air, then bang. I'll look at the rod, it may have skipped off it.

Good news: went to a salvage yard and found both upper and lower pans together with good pick up tube and even the oil level sensor appears intact; got both for $107.50 out the door. The guy behind the desk said it was the last part they had left from a 1997 FZJ-80 they sent to the crusher four years ago.
Just have to clean it up real well but so far it looks good.

When I place or remove jacks under the vehicle, I do so from the side, and only my arm is under there. If the jack fails while I'm placing the stands, then I might get a sore shoulder, but not fatal injuries. You're right, it's a bit scary thinking that a ton and a half is hanging over you, supported only by a jack.

Your jackstands sound very stout, what brand are they? I have an older pair of 6 ton stands (6 tons rating per stand) I inherited from my father, they are also double-locking, very sturdy.

And, if you remember what brand that jack you mentioned was, please let me know. I have two jacks, both are pretty marginal and I'm in the market for a new one.

Congratulations on the good parts buy! I will need to revise my previous estimate!



Dana

 

[Kernal]

lacruiser: the jack stands were Torin brand double locking, they have a safety pin that slides in after you get the ratchet bar to the height you want, very nice. As mentioned I was using four of these stands at the same time, two at about their lowest setting under the frame and two on the axle almost to their max height. With the floor jack at it's max height I removed the stands under the axle first, then reached in from the sides to remove the stands from under the frame which were just behind the back end of the control arms. I was trying to be as safe as possible, and put a lot of thought into the whole process, just messed up with the floor jack. Here is the thread about the double locking stands.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/338374-12-ton-jack-stands-arrived.html

Forgot to mention; when it was all over the 80 had moved about a foot or so forward even with wheel blocks and the tranny in park and the emergency brake pulled tight. It apparently rolled forward on the floor jack wheels while being held up by the oil pan!! Amazing what 6000 lbs will do once it gets moving. I had a lot of respect for the potential danger before this mishap and even more now.

 

[e9999]

ah, just saw the pics with the carnage.
Well, even though it will sound like after the fact quarterbacking, I can say that this extension thing does not look to me as being safe to use. I would not put anything more between the saddle and the body than a couple of inches worth of very wide wood or rubber and maybe not even that. The pics I've seen of folks using a vertical piece of 4x4 and the like strike me as insane. In this case, there is the pivot pin, but it still looks awfully unstable.

 

[Kernal]

e9999: yes again, I (now) am uncomfortable with the whole floor jack issue. Need to rethink how best to safely jack up my 80; what type/model of floor jack to use and where to place it.

I called my insurance company, it's covered!! And as I had just decreased by deductible from $250 to $50 last month that is all it will cost me, $50. They will even pick up the tab for my rental car!!. Hmm, maybe I should start on another repair with the same floor jack??

 

[Riad]

Now that is a happiest ending I can relate to

Without knowing the details, sounds like you're gonna miss out on the fun of doing it on your own .

 

[lacruiser]

e9999: yes again, I (now) am uncomfortable with the whole floor jack issue. Need to rethink how best to safely jack up my 80; what type/model of floor jack to use and where to place it.

I called my insurance company, it's covered!! And as I had just decreased by deductible from $250 to $50 last month that is all it will cost me, $50. They will even pick up the tab for my rental car!!. Hmm, maybe I should start on another repair with the same floor jack??

automobile policy, renters policy, or homeowners policy?